Psychology applied to territory, triggered this one!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

[Phox]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

[Don Coyote]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The ones that magically existed back when everything was "philosophy"

[Phox]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The ones that magically existed back when everything was "philosophy"

Natural philosophy ftw.

Phox,
Knows Lucretius was right.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think you meant "invoke".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=envoke

Please please please please be serious.

[Phox]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

They sound like pleasant, reasonable fellows...

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

They sound like pleasant, reasonable fellows...

I'll be writing their Discordian Devil's Dictionary tomorrow.  LMNO has had it all his way long enough.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

They sound like pleasant, reasonable fellows...

I'll be writing their Discordian Devil's Dictionary tomorrow.  LMNO has had it all his way long enough.

This sounds worth waking up for!

[LMNO]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

They sound like pleasant, reasonable fellows...

I'll be writing their Discordian Devil's Dictionary tomorrow.  LMNO has had it all his way long enough.

You're just trying to pad your personal file at this point, aren't you?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

They sound like pleasant, reasonable fellows...

I'll be writing their Discordian Devil's Dictionary tomorrow.  LMNO has had it all his way long enough.

You're just trying to pad your personal file at this point, aren't you?

Go for broke, that's what old Uncle Leonard used to say.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Heck the scientists thought the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat for how long?

Which scientists were those?

The Vatican's Secret Science Suppression Society. You have to be a 13th level Illuminatus to know about it. I've probably said too much.

Expect to see Mr Scratch & Mr Chop sometime later this week.

They sound like pleasant, reasonable fellows...

I'll be writing their Discordian Devil's Dictionary tomorrow.  LMNO has had it all his way long enough.

This sounds worth waking up for!

It'll be sometime after 11AM, real time.

[Roaring Biscuit!]

Manipulation =/= understanding of psychology.

I don't think that's really in question.

I think what Wildcat is trying to say, is that shamans (or in fact any leader ever) have/had an intuitive knowledge of social dynamics and human thinking (which is, in case you needed reminding, rather central to psychology).  While this is almost certainly true, as any leader either has to be either considerably stronger or considerably smarter to stay on top*, equating shamanistic practices with psychological study is pretty much bullshit.  Whether shamans had a knowledge of the workings of the human mind or not is basically irrelevant, as I can pretty much guarantee you it was an informal knowledge.  Much like (I can't remember who said it) Chi being described as an intuitive metaphor for psychosomatics, whatever shamanistic "study" may have occurred does not equate to science, regardless of how effective it may or may not have been, as useful and effective as a symbolic shamanistic interpretation of social dynamics may be in terms of manipulation and leadership, it is still symbolic.  It does not explain the underlying causal mechanisms, nor does it attempt to, nor does it have the tools that one might use to do so.

@ the OP:  Nice rant, I thought it was all getting a bit anarcholame towards the end, but then it turned out to be anarchoawesome.

xx

edd


*there is some evidence that the need for greater understanding of social dynamics is one of the main adaptive pressures that drove the evolution of our massive brains and that our "intelligence" is largely geared towards manipulating the social environment.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I just hate the word "shaman".  It makes me think of Cafe Druids and Cherohonkeys.

[LMNO]

RB: 

An analogy:

Shaman: I turn the key, the car starts.  That's how the car works.

Psychologist: You have to open up the hood, there's these little bits in there that work together, if you fuck with one of them, the car behaves differently.



PLEASE NOTE that the analogy implies that while the psychologist has a better understanding than the shaman, they still don't really understand internal combustion.