CRAMULUS

[Faust]

Also, whatever ethnicity you are, you had to roll a natural 20 to be born in the gigantic bubble-wrap playhouse we call "America".

Chances for living in Europe are about the same.

And I don't think there's anyone here who could - with a straight face - deny that those 10% have it easier than anyone else on the planet.

The old phrase "Standing on the shoulders of giants" springs to mind. Though in actually it's more sitting on a throne of bones....

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, whatever ethnicity you are, you had to roll a natural 20 to be born in the gigantic bubble-wrap playhouse we call "America".

Chances for living in Europe are about the same.

And I don't think there's anyone here who could - with a straight face - deny that those 10% have it easier than anyone else on the planet.

The old phrase "Standing on the shoulders of giants" springs to mind. Though in actually it's more sitting on a throne of bones....

The second is far, far more accurate. 

[hooplala]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.

It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white".

I agree, I've since changed my position.

[Disco Pickle]

I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.

Balls.  My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.

Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's?  And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?

No different.  Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.

It's easier for the upper-class to tell the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.

you believe it's origin is from the upper class instead of cultural, religious, and language differences being the driving factor?  

The fact is that when Italians of that era began migrating here in mass, they WERE working for less wages in order to survive, suffered from religious discrimination for being catholic and faced other common stereotypes.  

Racism also exists among rich people of different ethnicity but similar socioeconomic background.  How does that fit in with what you said?   And how is this message being delivered to the working and middle class people?  I know newspapers of the time could be pretty damn blatently racists, but considering literacy rates among the poor of that time, it doesn't account for the sheer amount of it happening in the public arena.

As evidence, I present "Dead Peasants Insurance", where corporations take out life insurance policies on employees, with the corporation being the beneficiary.  So you work for a company for a few years, then 20 years later you die, and they make mad bank, far and above what they paid for your services.

I had to google that.  

doesn't surprise me that Winn-Dixie and AIG were involved.  I can reasonably see the benefit to a business on taking out a policy on their top guys to cover the cost of replacing them should they kick off of this mortal coil, but only with their consent.

Otherwise it's just..  wrong.

[Disco Pickle]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.

It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white".

reminds me of a NOFX song from back in my hazy acid and skateboarding days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkrHYHqChlI

[East Coast Hustle]

Back on the original threadjack:

Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.

So of course Nigel is correct.  We should be using this.

This.

[East Coast Hustle]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.

It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white".

reminds me of a NOFX song from back in my hazy acid and skateboarding days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkrHYHqChlI

Didn't click, but I assume it's "Don't Call Me White".

[Disco Pickle]

that's the one. 

[LMNO]

that's the one. 

I'll raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0tzZ__Z5Qw

[Disco Pickle]

that's the one. 

I'll raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0tzZ__Z5Qw

LMNO:  beating Pickles in every thread to date, presumably forever.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.

It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white".

This. I think this one has legs.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Back on the original threadjack:

Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.

So of course Nigel is correct.  We should be using this.

I'm seeing it go places. I am also interested in what might happen with it on TCC.

And also, yes, I do think we have an ethical and social responsibility to use our privilege to benefit others. Spread it around a little. But then, I'm a Nixonite and that guy was nothing if not a socialist.

[Disco Pickle]

wasn't he also a racist?  I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.

[hooplala]

He was at least an anti-Semite.

[Jenne]

wasn't he also a racist?  I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.

His home was in Southern California, but he grew up with some really ingrained ideas on race, color and religion.  Like most Conservatives I know.