Fuck you, it's another Osama thread.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I am reminded of Prof La Paz from the book 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress',

Oops.  Stopped right there.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Anyway, he was our enemy, and we killed him.

I fail to see any lack of precedent, here.

[Triple Zero]

I guess, for me, in the end it will boil down to what the President's order was... if it was "Capture alive if possible... otherwise kill" then I have 0 issues.

I think the same thing. If they tried to capture alive, it can probably be argued it was better to fail in the "alive" part than fail in the "capture" part.

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in

Rog, I wondered about this for the past couple of days. What if the same thing had happened to Saddam Hussein? (As in, really bad guy that didn't have much to do with 9/11)

This is not a gotcha-question, I'm asking cause I'm not entirely certain about my opinion as well. And I'm asking you cause you got principles like a fucking rock, and got a good grasp on them to explain them.

If you don't know or don't want to answer, that's fine.

[Triple Zero]

Anyway, he was our enemy, and we killed him.

I fail to see any lack of precedent, here.

... or maybe you answered my question right as I posted.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Rog, I wondered about this for the past couple of days. What if the same thing had happened to Saddam Hussein? (As in, really bad guy that didn't have much to do with 9/11)

This is not a gotcha-question, I'm asking cause I'm not entirely certain about my opinion as well. And I'm asking you cause you got principles like a fucking rock, and got a good grasp on them to explain them.

If you don't know or don't want to answer, that's fine.

I think Saddam was someone else's problem.  We had precisely zero business getting involved in Iraq.  He wasn't our enemy (at least not in any meaningful way), and there was no justification that stands to reason for any part of that whole mess.

[East Coast Hustle]

Aside from the oil. Notice we haven't invaded (or assembled a NATO coalition to drop bombs on) Yemen, which in theory is a much more fertile breeding ground for actual terrorists and therefore should be a higher strategic priority given publicly stated reasons for why we do this sort of thing.

[Cain]

I think the Yemeni risk has been overstated, personally.  Last estimates I heard was that there was roughly 200 Al-Qaeda members in the country, most unable to find their backsides with both hands.  What happens is the CIA send in Predator drones, who predictably fail to hit anything other than weddings and other public celebrations, the government of Yemen says it was responsible for the attack, people get pissed off and express it in that delightfully Yemeni fashion (killing the nearest government official), the Yemeni government then cries about "Al-Qaeda" and keeps getting US arms and special forces training at a discount price.  Meanwhile, the real Yemeni AQ send retards with bombs they don't know how to detonate, or disassembled bombs, via airplanes, presumably in some kind of bizarre attempt to troll themselves and Western intelligence agencies at the same time.

As always, Pakistan is the elephant in the room.  That is the breeding ground, due in no small part to the heroin trade and semi-state backing such groups get.  Oh, and the schools.  Never forget the schools.  And because of Pakistan's strategic relationship with China, and nuclear weapons, it will never suffer invasion like Iraq or Afghanistan.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Aside from the oil. Notice we haven't invaded (or assembled a NATO coalition to drop bombs on) Yemen, which in theory is a much more fertile breeding ground for actual terrorists and therefore should be a higher strategic priority given publicly stated reasons for why we do this sort of thing.

Naw.  It's cheaper to buy oil.  As far as I can tell, the war happened so that we could transfer large portions of the US treasury to certain corporations, via no-bid contracts.  The Iraq war was won by Halliburton, KB&R, and Blackwater, much as the Spanish-American war was won by United Fruit (now Del Monte).

[LMNO]

In an unprecedented feat, they also simultaneously had the number 2 spot on the charts with their cover of the classic Public Enemy song "9-1-1 is a Joke".

ZANG!

[East Coast Hustle]

Aside from the oil. Notice we haven't invaded (or assembled a NATO coalition to drop bombs on) Yemen, which in theory is a much more fertile breeding ground for actual terrorists and therefore should be a higher strategic priority given publicly stated reasons for why we do this sort of thing.

Naw.  It's cheaper to buy oil.  As far as I can tell, the war happened so that we could transfer large portions of the US treasury to certain corporations, via no-bid contracts.  The Iraq war was won by Halliburton, KB&R, and Blackwater, much as the Spanish-American war was won by United Fruit (now Del Monte).

There are some talking heads in the energy industry who feel that it's likely that non-OPEC oil either has peaked or is about to peak, and either way there's no doubt that the North Sea and Caspian fields have reached a point where extraction costs are close to making it impractical to continue selling that oil on the world market. Our ability to continually use more and more energy is absolutely vital to the maintenance of our current economic system, and the easiest and most certain way to achieve that in the eyes of many of the people in our national policy circles is to ensure access to oil that is now controlled by OPEC.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Aside from the oil. Notice we haven't invaded (or assembled a NATO coalition to drop bombs on) Yemen, which in theory is a much more fertile breeding ground for actual terrorists and therefore should be a higher strategic priority given publicly stated reasons for why we do this sort of thing.

Naw.  It's cheaper to buy oil.  As far as I can tell, the war happened so that we could transfer large portions of the US treasury to certain corporations, via no-bid contracts.  The Iraq war was won by Halliburton, KB&R, and Blackwater, much as the Spanish-American war was won by United Fruit (now Del Monte).

There are some talking heads in the energy industry who feel that it's likely that non-OPEC oil either has peaked or is about to peak, and either way there's no doubt that the North Sea and Caspian fields have reached a point where extraction costs are close to making it impractical to continue selling that oil on the world market. Our ability to continually use more and more energy is absolutely vital to the maintenance of our current economic system, and the easiest and most certain way to achieve that in the eyes of many of the people in our national policy circles is to ensure access to oil that is now controlled by OPEC.

I don't think PNAC can think that far ahead, to be honest.  They're all corporate tards, and they think in terms of quarters.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I am reminded of Prof La Paz from the book 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress',

Oops.  Stopped right there.

Ah, yeah forgot about your visceral hatred of that particular author.

Rog, I wondered about this for the past couple of days. What if the same thing had happened to Saddam Hussein? (As in, really bad guy that didn't have much to do with 9/11)

This is not a gotcha-question, I'm asking cause I'm not entirely certain about my opinion as well. And I'm asking you cause you got principles like a fucking rock, and got a good grasp on them to explain them.

If you don't know or don't want to answer, that's fine.

I think Saddam was someone else's problem.  We had precisely zero business getting involved in Iraq.  He wasn't our enemy (at least not in any meaningful way), and there was no justification that stands to reason for any part of that whole mess.

Agreed 123%

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ah, yeah forgot about your visceral hatred of that particular author.

Ayn Rand with spaceships and extra bigotry.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'm reminded that John Adams defended the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre.

Truly, we stand on the shoulders of giants.  Unfortunately, we're now taking massive dumps on their heads.

He was still British at that point.

I'm also reminded that a number of Native Americans were executed without trial, and we were pretty big on tar & feathering people (often, but not always, fatal...And a REALLY bad way to go, as it took days to kill you) who were suspected of having the wrong values.

The Phillipine/American war also comes to mind. "Kill everyone over the age of 10." - General Smith.

"Nits make lice."
- General Sheridan

No, that was John Brown.

Sheridan said things like "War is hell."

It was Col. Chivington.
Sheridan said "The only good Indians I ever saw were dead." I mixed the quotes up.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I stand corrected.

John Brown said "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

And then he invented calculus when a plantation owner fell out of a tree onto his head.