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Prison Bans Books and Disco Pickle Learns a Lesson

Started by Prince Glittersnatch III, May 11, 2011, 06:05:52 PM

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Telarus

#30
May 11, 2011, 10:40:14 PM
Telarus, KSC,
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(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
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Disco Pickle

#31
May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
Quote from: Telarus on May 11, 2011, 10:40:14 PM
The Prison Industrial Complex Is...

ok, yeah, I get it.  I've even been known myself to rail against the privatization of the prison system and the running of for profit prisons.  There should be no private prisons if only the state is responsible for writing, enforcing and adjudicating people who break laws.

But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.  I'm not saying all laws are created equal nor are all people treated equally, but the fact is that since I turned 18 and made the decision not to break any laws as an adult, I've haven't spent a single day in jail.  Fortunately, I never got caught for some of the big ones I broke when I was a juvenile.

Drug convictions aside, repeat offenders of crimes against person or property are a reality, and incarcerating them is the only viable option.  Rehabilitation, while possible for the ones who WANT it, just doesn't work for everyone, and prison's seem to function a bit like drug counseling for people who aren't receptive to it i.e. it's a place to meet other people who like drugs and learn new ways to acquire them.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Anna Mae Bollocks

#32
May 11, 2011, 11:47:09 PM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.
By now, there's probably a few hundred people who have been released on DNA evidence who would disagree with that.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Disco Pickle

#33
May 11, 2011, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 11:47:09 PM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.
By now, there's probably a few hundred people who have been released on DNA evidence who would disagree with that.

Granted, but we're getting better at taking that evidence into consideration.  We're adapting to the technology.  Admittedly slowly, but it's happening.  And a few hundred is probably a conservative estimate, though I haven't any figures at the moment to say otherwise.

It is still a system created by humans, with all of the problems that entails.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

The Good Reverend Roger

#34
May 12, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM

But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.  I'm not saying all laws are created equal nor are all people treated equally, but the fact is that since I turned 18 and made the decision not to break any laws as an adult, I've haven't spent a single day in jail.  Fortunately, I never got caught for some of the big ones I broke when I was a juvenile.


Because you're innocent, and not lucky...because innocent people never get accused of - or convicted of - crimes they didn't commit.

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#35
May 12, 2011, 12:45:56 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 11:47:09 PM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.
By now, there's probably a few hundred people who have been released on DNA evidence who would disagree with that.

Granted, but we're getting better at taking that evidence into consideration.  We're adapting to the technology.  Admittedly slowly, but it's happening.  And a few hundred is probably a conservative estimate, though I haven't any figures at the moment to say otherwise.

It is still a system created by humans, with all of the problems that entails.

Yeah.  I got dragged though the criminal justice system by the heels a few years back, and I can tell you this:  Whether or not you go to jail is determined SOLELY by what quality of lawyer you can AFFORD.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Disco Pickle

#36
May 12, 2011, 12:49:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM

But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.  I'm not saying all laws are created equal nor are all people treated equally, but the fact is that since I turned 18 and made the decision not to break any laws as an adult, I've haven't spent a single day in jail.  Fortunately, I never got caught for some of the big ones I broke when I was a juvenile.


Because you're innocent, and not lucky...because innocent people never get accused of - or convicted of - crimes they didn't commit.

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT?

QuoteIt is still a system created by humans, with all of the problems that entails.

would you rather have no system at all?  Should lawyers not be paid better for doing more research and being more dedicated to a case than the guy who advises you to plead out?  I'm actually truly interested in your thoughts on this Rev.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

East Coast Hustle

#37
May 12, 2011, 01:00:21 AM
And because if you DO violate the law and get caught, no matter what the law was or what (if any) impact your crime had on the well-being of other people, the single best way to deal with you is to lock you in a cage and send you to work in the sweatshop making uniforms for McDonalds workers for 25 cents an hour.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#38
May 12, 2011, 01:03:20 AM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 12, 2011, 01:00:21 AM
And because if you DO violate the law and get caught, no matter what the law was or what (if any) impact your crime had on the well-being of other people, the single best way to deal with you is to lock you in a cage and send you to work in the sweatshop making uniforms for McDonalds workers for 25 cents an hour.

CLEARLY

I mean,

GOSH.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Disco Pickle

#39
May 12, 2011, 01:06:01 AM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 12, 2011, 01:00:21 AM
And because if you DO violate the law and get caught, no matter what the law was or what (if any) impact your crime had on the well-being of other people, the single best way to deal with you is to lock you in a cage and send you to work in the sweatshop making uniforms for McDonalds workers for 25 cents an hour.

I was pretty specific about crimes against person or property.  I'm more for educating those we have to incarcerate because they repeatedly break the social compact.  Forced labor for profit is still slavery.  I have no issues with putting people sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us who make the decision to not break laws.

It is a decision.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

The Good Reverend Roger

#40
May 12, 2011, 01:08:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 12:49:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM

But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.  I'm not saying all laws are created equal nor are all people treated equally, but the fact is that since I turned 18 and made the decision not to break any laws as an adult, I've haven't spent a single day in jail.  Fortunately, I never got caught for some of the big ones I broke when I was a juvenile.


Because you're innocent, and not lucky...because innocent people never get accused of - or convicted of - crimes they didn't commit.

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT?

QuoteIt is still a system created by humans, with all of the problems that entails.

would you rather have no system at all?  Should lawyers not be paid better for doing more research and being more dedicated to a case than the guy who advises you to plead out?  I'm actually truly interested in your thoughts on this Rev.


No, I was just pointing out that the fact that YOU have avoided trouble doesn't mean it doesn't randomly find others.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#41
May 12, 2011, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:06:01 AM
I have no issues with putting people sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us who make the decision to not break laws.


And I have no issue with you being sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us that made the decision to not be unlucky enough to be falsely accused.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#42
May 12, 2011, 01:11:44 AM
It is a decision.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Disco Pickle

#43
May 12, 2011, 01:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:08:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 12:49:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM

But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.  I'm not saying all laws are created equal nor are all people treated equally, but the fact is that since I turned 18 and made the decision not to break any laws as an adult, I've haven't spent a single day in jail.  Fortunately, I never got caught for some of the big ones I broke when I was a juvenile.


Because you're innocent, and not lucky...because innocent people never get accused of - or convicted of - crimes they didn't commit.

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT?

QuoteIt is still a system created by humans, with all of the problems that entails.

would you rather have no system at all?  Should lawyers not be paid better for doing more research and being more dedicated to a case than the guy who advises you to plead out?  I'm actually truly interested in your thoughts on this Rev.


No, I was just pointing out that the fact that YOU have avoided trouble doesn't mean it doesn't randomly find others.

I don't subscribe to randomness where humans are concerned.  Much as I don't consider car wrecks to be "accidents"

yes, there will be occasions where the wrong guy is targeted.  We're getting much better at discovering this, considering how bad things were for the entirety of law up until the discovery of DNA.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

The Good Reverend Roger

#44
May 12, 2011, 01:14:28 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:12:47 AM

I don't subscribe to randomness where humans are concerned.  Much as I don't consider car wrecks to be "accidents"

yes, there will be occasions where the wrong guy is targeted.  We're getting much better at discovering this, considering how bad things were for the entirety of law up until the discovery of DNA.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH DNA.

Have you ever BEEN in a felony courtroom?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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