Prison Bans Books and Disco Pickle Learns a Lesson

[Telarus]

1) THE system is actually 2 systems. 1 for those with fame/money (we only see the fame one, see example), and one for those without.

example: Willie Nelson got out of possession charges earlier this year by singing the judge's favorite song to him. See also, Paris Hilton.


2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-long-con/Content?oid=7989613

You're talking about privileged law, something I'm completely against.  Tell me how you'd remove it and I'll back it.

2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

There have always been bad cops, going back over the entirety of civilization.  We created Internal Affairs to help with this.  I'm not convinced it will ever be a perfect system either.

You didn't read the article. That was an entire corrupt department, backed by an entire corrupt system.

"I didn't realize I was playing a chess game for my life with the FBI. They were playing chess, and I was off finger-painting in the corner."

For over 2 years.

"The defense lawyers will be bewildered by what they find in the discovery process—all the paperwork and evidence and audio and video surveillance accumulated by the two-year investigation that involved the FBI, SPD, SWAT teams, and federal firearms and immigration and customs agents. One defendant's discovery request turned up nearly 2,000 pages of documentation and over 100 CDs and DVDs, and even that defendant's attorney had to file extra requests because he said there were big gaps of time missing."

[Disco Pickle]

That tells me you didn't read the fucking article. The under-cover agent who entrapped people GOT A FUCKING MEDAL FOR IT.


"There'll always be some bad cops", my ASS.

reading now, but the subtext of the title disqualifies it from this discussion as I was and am still talking about crimes against person and property and those who commit those crimes.

reading anyway.

Yes, because the only people in prison are those who committed crimes against person or property?  How do you even begin to justify your contribution to this thread?

I earlier qualified by dismissing drug related offenses, and if I didn't include nonviolent offenses then it was an oversight.  You'll find me very libertarian on drug laws and their enforcement.  "Victimless Crimes" are not, in my opinion, crimes at all.

[Phox]

 

ETA: That's called "ignoring reality".

[Requia ☣]

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Yep. my in law totally chose to get arrested, taken to prison, and then charged with smuggling weed into that prison based on what he had on his person when he was searched.

[East Coast Hustle]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Is being black a choice? How about being poor?

[East Coast Hustle]

That tells me you didn't read the fucking article. The under-cover agent who entrapped people GOT A FUCKING MEDAL FOR IT.


"There'll always be some bad cops", my ASS.

reading now, but the subtext of the title disqualifies it from this discussion as I was and am still talking about crimes against person and property and those who commit those crimes.

reading anyway.

Yes, because the only people in prison are those who committed crimes against person or property?  How do you even begin to justify your contribution to this thread?

I earlier qualified by dismissing drug related offenses, and if I didn't include nonviolent offenses then it was an oversight.  You'll find me very libertarian on drug laws and their enforcement.  "Victimless Crimes" are not, in my opinion, crimes at all.

I'm sorry, we're discussing the nature of the legal/judicial system as it actually exists and operates, not how it would be in some libertopia. The cop who plants a bag of coke in your car isn't going to give a shit that you don't think simple posession should get you a prison sentence.

[Disco Pickle]

1) THE system is actually 2 systems. 1 for those with fame/money (we only see the fame one, see example), and one for those without.

example: Willie Nelson got out of possession charges earlier this year by singing the judge's favorite song to him. See also, Paris Hilton.


2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-long-con/Content?oid=7989613

You're talking about privileged law, something I'm completely against.  Tell me how you'd remove it and I'll back it.

2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

There have always been bad cops, going back over the entirety of civilization.  We created Internal Affairs to help with this.  I'm not convinced it will ever be a perfect system either.

You didn't read the article. That was an entire corrupt department, backed by an entire corrupt system.

"I didn't realize I was playing a chess game for my life with the FBI. They were playing chess, and I was off finger-painting in the corner."

For over 2 years.

"The defense lawyers will be bewildered by what they find in the discovery process—all the paperwork and evidence and audio and video surveillance accumulated by the two-year investigation that involved the FBI, SPD, SWAT teams, and federal firearms and immigration and customs agents. One defendant's discovery request turned up nearly 2,000 pages of documentation and over 100 CDs and DVDs, and even that defendant's attorney had to file extra requests because he said there were big gaps of time missing."

completely indefinsable.  Corrupt police should be put in a cage with others who would take rights, property or life from someone else.  Again, I find myself a bit out of my element actually on the side of law enforcement ITT, but I truly was attempting to hear alternatives that will still remove violent and destructive people from the streets with as little damage to the rest of us as possible.  I've heard none of that.  

[Disco Pickle]

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Yep. my in law totally chose to get arrested, taken to prison, and then charged with smuggling weed into that prison based on what he had on his person when he was searched.

I don't actually know anyone dumb enough to take drugs into a prison.  I find it hard to sympathize with anyone who would. 

[Phox]

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Yep. my in law totally chose to get arrested, taken to prison, and then charged with smuggling weed into that prison based on what he had on his person when he was searched.

I don't actually know anyone dumb enough to take drugs into a prison.  I find it hard to sympathize with anyone who would. 

Charged with =/= tried to do.

[Disco Pickle]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Is being black a choice? How about being poor?

assumes being black or poor disqualifies someone from making a choice to break a law written by elected officials.

[Phox]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Is being black a choice? How about being poor?

assumes being black or poor disqualifies someone from making a choice to break a law written by elected officials.

No it doesn't.

[Thurnez Isa]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Is being black a choice? How about being poor?

I don't think he understands that argument.

[Thurnez Isa]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Is being black a choice? How about being poor?

assumes being black or poor disqualifies someone from making a choice to break a law written by elected officials.

see

[Disco Pickle]

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Yep. my in law totally chose to get arrested, taken to prison, and then charged with smuggling weed into that prison based on what he had on his person when he was searched.

I don't actually know anyone dumb enough to take drugs into a prison.  I find it hard to sympathize with anyone who would. 

Charged with =/= tried to do.

ok, yeah.  As ECH mentioned, a cop planting something on you means you can get pretty fucked and railroaded.  I see no long term solution for this short of screening potential cops for this sort of behavior.  Good luck with that.

[Requia ☣]

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.

Yep. my in law totally chose to get arrested, taken to prison, and then charged with smuggling weed into that prison based on what he had on his person when he was searched.

I don't actually know anyone dumb enough to take drugs into a prison.  I find it hard to sympathize with anyone who would. 

Uh, he didn't choose take drugs in.  He got his ass hauled in for being drunk and happened to have drugs on him.  Being an unwilling participant in the smuggling doesn't actually matter to the system.