Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Okay, I have to disagree with you, Roger and Nigel.

You are right that there are some people who might take issue with a person with a penis in the women's restroom. This is perfectly understandable, but completely misguided (on their part, not yours).

So, who trumps who?  You have to choose, here.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Okay, I have to disagree with you, Roger and Nigel.

You are right that there are some people who might take issue with a person with a penis in the women's restroom. This is perfectly understandable, but completely misguided (on their part, not yours). But it can also be flat out dangerous to walk into a men's room when you identify and present as female. I wouldn't even do that, if I had any choice at all, and I've been in a scrap or two, and I'm a born troll. Sure, 9 rimes out of 10, it would be fine. But, 9 times out of 10, the people in the women's restroom won't know and/or care.

In a different note, I don't really see what all the commotion against hormones is about. Hormones are like any other happy pill, and SRS is like any other cosmetic surgery. There are consequences and side effects, but if a person judges them better than current situation, why bother them about it?

It's a work restroom, not a random bar restroom. If it was a random bar restroom and she's dressed "like a woman" (which I apparently rarely do) I would suggest she just use the women's room because who's going to stop her?

But it's the workplace bathroom. And yeah, you kinda have to ask, whose feelings trump whose, here? The woman who feels threatened by a person with a dick being in the potty with her while she's got her panties around the ankles, or the dick-bearing chick who doesn't want to pee in the men's room?

And I couldn't possibly agree with you MORE about hormones and SRS being exactly like any other happy pills and cosmetic surgery. That is exactly what I'm saying.

[Luna]

Okay, I have to disagree with you, Roger and Nigel.

You are right that there are some people who might take issue with a person with a penis in the women's restroom. This is perfectly understandable, but completely misguided (on their part, not yours).

So, who trumps who?  You have to choose, here.

If you know there's someone in the office who doesn't want you in the room while they have their pants down, tie a knot in it, cross your legs, whatever, and wait five minutes.  Particularly if you can discuss it with, "I know it makes you uncomfortable, how about we agree to disagree, we'll both knock, and whoever's inside will finish up, and whoever's outside will wait."

[Phox]

Okay, I have to disagree with you, Roger and Nigel.

You are right that there are some people who might take issue with a person with a penis in the women's restroom. This is perfectly understandable, but completely misguided (on their part, not yours).

So, who trumps who?  You have to choose, here.

Yeah, and given the choice between making someone uncomfortable and getting curb-stomped with generally the same probability... I'd rather make someone uncomfortable, honestly.

While I am against gendered restrooms in the first place, there is a serious threat to my well-being if I walk in to a men's room in a dress and make-up and it happens to have three or four burly rednecks in it. If I walk into the women's restroom the same way, and there are three or four women, well... the odds of me getting a second glance are much lower in that scenario.

I can see how this might go differently at a work place where people knew you before, but I personally believe that co-workers should be more understanding and accommodating. (Female co-workers should not mind if you use the women's room, male co-workers should not want to beat you with the nearest blunt object if you use the men's restroom.)  The reality of this, however, i cannot speak on. .

And I couldn't possibly agree with you MORE about hormones and SRS being exactly like any other happy pills and cosmetic surgery. That is exactly what I'm saying.

I know that's what you were saying, Nigel, that part was more directed at Roger and Faust, because that wasn't the sense I was getting from their posts on the topic (could be wrong, of course, I often am). Sorry if that was unclear. 

It's a work restroom, not a random bar restroom. If it was a random bar restroom and she's dressed "like a woman" (which I apparently rarely do) I would suggest she just use the women's room because who's going to stop her?

But it's the workplace bathroom. And yeah, you kinda have to ask, whose feelings trump whose, here? The woman who feels threatened by a person with a dick being in the potty with her while she's got her panties around the ankles, or the dick-bearing chick who doesn't want to pee in the men's room?

Yeah... I'm ambivalent still, because monkeys will be monkeys. I vote in favor of personal safety for everyone. So, at a workplace.... it would depend on the coworkers. Like I said above, I cannot speak on that topic, since I don't work there.

[East Coast Hustle]

I don't understand why it's even an issue unless public restrooms suddenly no longer have stalls.

[East Coast Hustle]

I mean if you're a woman with a penis and you walk into the women's bathroom and whip your fucking dick out in front of everyone, then guess what? you're a jerk and you brought your troubles on yourself by being one. And if you're a man with a vagina, well, men's rooms also have stalls. You can pee in one of them without anyone ever knowing you have a vagina.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I mean if you're a woman with a penis and you walk into the women's bathroom and whip your fucking dick out in front of everyone, then guess what? you're a jerk and you brought your troubles on yourself by being one. And if you're a man with a vagina, well, men's rooms also have stalls. You can pee in one of them without anyone ever knowing you have a vagina.

This is very true.

It's a little different in a workplace because people know you, and if you're recently decided to switch genders that could be a little less straightforward. But again, if you've been a dude for 20 years it's probably not going to kill you to use the men's room for a few more months while HR gets that shit hammered out.

Phox, as far as why women might feel threatened by a penis in the ladies room, I refer you to this thread: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=29777.0

Yeah, it may be irrational. But there's nothing rational about a PTSD/fear response.

[Phox]

I mean if you're a woman with a penis and you walk into the women's bathroom and whip your fucking dick out in front of everyone, then guess what? you're a jerk and you brought your troubles on yourself by being one. And if you're a man with a vagina, well, men's rooms also have stalls. You can pee in one of them without anyone ever knowing you have a vagina.

Excellent point, ECH. But I think the issue that Zen's coworkers are aware of her penis, and may not be comfortable with that.

[East Coast Hustle]

Fair enough. Perhaps Zenpeanut could invest in one of those astronaut toilets with the vacuum hose? Then not only could she be a special snowflake with her own bathroom but she'd never even have to leave her desk to pee. I call that a win-win scenario.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I agree that gendered restrooms are kind of dumb, BTW. It's especially annoying when the men's room doesn't have a changing table.

[Phox]

Phox, as far as why women might feel threatened by a penis in the ladies room, I refer you to this thread: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=29777.0

Yeah, it may be irrational. But there's nothing rational about a PTSD/fear response.

Oh no, I completely agree with that Nigel. Like I said, if Zen doesn't have an immediate threat to her person by using the men's room, and one of her female coworkers is uncool with her using the women's room, for whatever reason (including that), then she should just use the men's room.

[Phox]

Fair enough. Perhaps Zenpeanut could invest in one of those astronaut toilets with the vacuum hose? Then not only could she be a special snowflake with her own bathroom but she'd never even have to leave her desk to pee. I call that a win-win scenario.

Fuck yes! 

Phox,
Knows what SHE'S getting for Xmas....

[East Coast Hustle]

Now that I think about it, I could really use one of those myself.

I hate pulling over on long road trips, and I don't like any of the sodas that come in wide-mouth bottles.

[Kai]

I don't know what the problems with bathrooms is. Toilets are unisex. The only reason there's any difference between bathrooms is because people with vaginas have a slightly harder time standing up to piss. Though, I'm told it can be learned with practice.

[Triple Zero]

I mean if you're a woman with a penis and you walk into the women's bathroom and whip your fucking dick out in front of everyone, then guess what? you're a jerk and you brought your troubles on yourself by being one. And if you're a man with a vagina, well, men's rooms also have stalls. You can pee in one of them without anyone ever knowing you have a vagina.

You talking about bars/clubs?

You live in a happy place when all men's rooms have stalls. We often have to make do with a metal wall+gutter thing and a single perpetual out-of-order stall with no door and no toilet seat. I wish my part of the world was as civilized as yours

(it's true though, toilets in the US, as far as I've seen were excellent)