On Freedom of Speech, Rush and the Turkish viewpoint

[Doktor Howl]

You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution.

Amendment IX.

Also covers the right to sing the blues.

[Cain]

Funny how everyone else at the time seemed to consider it "a plan to exterminate a whole people" in the memorable phrase of a New York Times journalist.

I suppose those Armenians were just force-marched into the middle of the Syrian desert with no supplies because the Ottoman authorities wanted to get them out of the fighting ASAP, and the desert is a pretty safe place, since no-one lives there.

And those camps on the Syrian-Iraqi border...just because they're filled with mass graves of people who died from bullet wounds doesn't necessarily mean they were extermination camps.

And just because at least 50% of the entire population of Armenians ended up being killed within a four year period doesn't necessarily mean that there was a stated policy of targeting the Armenian population at all.  They could have just been very unlucky.  Even though the Armenian population was fairly evenly distributed throughout the Ottoman Empire.

And that high ranking Turkish politicans frequently made comments which almost outrighted admitted culpability in a policy of mass killings of Armenians to the American Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire...well, perhaps they were just bragging?

And that killings of Armenians by Turkish authorities actually continued well after the war ended...well, you know those Japanese soldiers who kept on fighting in the jungle for decades, even after WWII was over?  Just like that.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

Not the point. You are not a full time musician. Your livelihood does not rely on an instrument. It is an extraneous frippery. You own it because you like making music. Or because it is fun. Yes?
Which is my point. You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution. Why then should we have to provide a reason to own a weapon, especially considering such a right IS guaranteed by the Constitution.

Well, it kinda is the point. Guns are lethal weapons. I'd like to see less shootings in the paper.

Ever listen to Nickleback?

[Doktor Howl]

I still want to know what happens if you call it "genocide" in public in Turkey.

[Elder Iptuous]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

I believe it. I'm not really sure where I fall on the gun control thing. But I figure if you want to shoot the heavy duty stuff you can use the ones that they have at the gun range.

what dok said about a restricted right not being a right at all.
or something.
this sounds similar to the 'free speech zones' thing in some sense.

incidentally, my company owns an Uzi as a sales sample for demoing to LEOs.
if you wanted one legally as a private citizen, it has to be one manufactured before 1986, and they go for around 7 grand.  hell, the cheapest papered full autos, like the Ingram M11 are around 3 grand these days...
although i think that is crap, and they should be able to manufacture for sale to the public, the fact is, they are prohibitively expensive to legally own by the majority of the population.

I assume there is a second amendment thread around here to prattle on about this, right?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I still want to know what happens if you call it "genocide" in public in Turkey.

Currently, nothing.... unless you say "Turks are a bunch of motherfucking sluts and committed genocide."

[Doktor Howl]

I assume there is a second amendment thread around here to prattle on about this, right?

Does it matter?  All rights are equal in importance.

[Don Coyote]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

Not the point. You are not a full time musician. Your livelihood does not rely on an instrument. It is an extraneous frippery. You own it because you like making music. Or because it is fun. Yes?
Which is my point. You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution. Why then should we have to provide a reason to own a weapon, especially considering such a right IS guaranteed by the Constitution.

Well, it kinda is the point. Guns are lethal weapons. I'd like to see less shootings in the paper.

More guns would mean less shootings. Maybe. Besides most shootings are done with illegal weapons. Yes?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Fair points all. I will consider.

[Doktor Howl]

I still want to know what happens if you call it "genocide" in public in Turkey.

Currently, nothing.... unless you say "Turks are a bunch of motherfucking sluts and committed genocide."

I couldn't live under that system.  For example, I think America is populated by a bunch of stupid fat nosy bastards who couldn't find their own state on a map if you circled it in red.  I enjoy saying things like that to other Americans, because I rather enjoy upsetting them.

Under the Turkish system, I would be forced to give up one of the great joys in my life, or go to jail, or both.

[Doktor Howl]

Fair points all. I will consider.

I can't say this for certain, but I am reasonably sure that Cartel members don't stop to think about the legality of their weapons before they shoot the fuck out of people in El Paso.

Just saying.

[Elder Iptuous]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

Not the point. You are not a full time musician. Your livelihood does not rely on an instrument. It is an extraneous frippery. You own it because you like making music. Or because it is fun. Yes?
Which is my point. You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution. Why then should we have to provide a reason to own a weapon, especially considering such a right IS guaranteed by the Constitution.

Well, it kinda is the point. Guns are lethal weapons. I'd like to see less shootings in the paper.

More guns would mean less shootings. Maybe. Besides most shootings are done with illegal weapons. Yes?

although i would love to support it, the first claim is a 'maybe' at best.  too many factors involved to put much value on it.

as to the second claim, how do you mean 'illegal weapon' and what are you basing this on?

[Cain]

I still want to know what happens if you call it "genocide" in public in Turkey.

Currently, nothing.... unless you say "Turks are a bunch of motherfucking sluts and committed genocide."

Article 301 of the Turkish legal code makes "denigrating Turkishness" illegal, and is the primary legal weapon used against people who claim what happend to the Armenians was a genocide. 

O DENIGRATE TURKISHNESS, REPUBLIC, AND INSTITUTIONS AND ORGANS OF THE STATE ARTICLE 301:

"1 - A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.

2 - A person who publicly denigrates Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.

3 - In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.

Of course, nowadays, the preferred method is to send around far-right paramilitaries to murder someone, as in the case of Hrant Dink.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

Not the point. You are not a full time musician. Your livelihood does not rely on an instrument. It is an extraneous frippery. You own it because you like making music. Or because it is fun. Yes?
Which is my point. You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution. Why then should we have to provide a reason to own a weapon, especially considering such a right IS guaranteed by the Constitution.

Well, it kinda is the point. Guns are lethal weapons. I'd like to see less shootings in the paper.

More guns would mean less shootings. Maybe. Besides most shootings are done with illegal weapons. Yes?

although i would love to support it, the first claim is a 'maybe' at best.  too many factors involved to put much value on it.

as to the second claim, how do you mean 'illegal weapon' and what are you basing this on?

If you ask the NRA, nobody has ever killed anyone else with a legally-owned weapon, ever.

If you ask the gun-grabbers, anyone who buys a pistol immediately kills everyone in their neighborhood without even loading it.

If you ask a cop, it's about 25% legally-owned firearms, and 75% illegally owned firearms, but they aren't authorities on the subject, either.

In any case, shootings are irrelevant when discussing firearm rights.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

In boston its probably more likely to be an illegal weapon. Though iirc shootings are down but stabbings are up. In western mass i would imagine shootings are done with legally owned guns. Bostonians dont have a lot of game to hunt on the common.