Interesting article on "Pink Slime"

[Elder Iptuous]

I think this guy is right on the money. Discuss.
...

I was curious who 'this guy' might be.
search the quote, and see it's one "Jim 'fuck latinos' Carrey" at Zoklet....
oooooh-K. 

Regarding the topic, i'd say it's not so much the claim of ammonia in the meatproduct that got the attention, as it was the widely spread picture of the bright pink homogenous extrusion destined to become McNuggets.  the ammonia was just filler fear fodder.

hell.  we put ammonia in our water to treat it.  (the chlorine and ammonia is mixed to form chloramine in many municipalities.)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think this guy is right on the money. Discuss.
...

I was curious who 'this guy' might be.
search the quote, and see it's one "Jim 'fuck latinos' Carrey" at Zoklet....
oooooh-K. 

Regarding the topic, i'd say it's not so much the claim of ammonia in the meatproduct that got the attention, as it was the widely spread picture of the bright pink homogenous extrusion destined to become McNuggets.  the ammonia was just filler fear fodder.

hell.  we put ammonia in our water to treat it.  (the chlorine and ammonia is mixed to form chloramine in many municipalities.)

You are proposing quite the logical fallacy there. The fact that chloramine is used to treat tap water does not make ammonia good to eat. It doesn't make it bad to eat, either. It's just completely irrelevant.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Ammonia =/= food.

It's in piss, though.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Ammonia =/= food.

It's in piss, though.

Piss is actually highly sterile when it first leaves the body.
               /

[East Coast Hustle]

That all depends on what you've been putting up your urethra.

[Elder Iptuous]

I think this guy is right on the money. Discuss.
...

I was curious who 'this guy' might be.
search the quote, and see it's one "Jim 'fuck latinos' Carrey" at Zoklet....
oooooh-K. 

Regarding the topic, i'd say it's not so much the claim of ammonia in the meatproduct that got the attention, as it was the widely spread picture of the bright pink homogenous extrusion destined to become McNuggets.  the ammonia was just filler fear fodder.

hell.  we put ammonia in our water to treat it.  (the chlorine and ammonia is mixed to form chloramine in many municipalities.)

You are proposing quite the logical fallacy there. The fact that chloramine is used to treat tap water does not make ammonia good to eat. It doesn't make it bad to eat, either. It's just completely irrelevant.

i don't understand why it is irrelevant... 
the story about the meat points out that they use ammonia in the processing of the pink slime, with the implication that using ammonia as a sterilizing agent is a horrible thing that should never be allowed, and the fact that they are doing an 'expose' indicates that they were hiding the fact.
i said that we use ammonia in treating water, as well.  it's not a secret, and it's not considered a horrible thing.
i wasn't arguing that it is good.
i wasn't arguing that it is bad.
i was just pointing out that they were using the claim to arouse outrage that is unfounded because the implication is that using ammonia in sterilizing something we consume 'must be done deceptively!', when, in fact, it is a common practice in something as widely consumed as tap water, with full disclosure. 

[Doktor Howl]

I like that they're putting things in my water.  I mean, I miss the horrible germs and stuff, but they're putting chloromine goodness in my water, and I think it's just swell that they care enough to do that.  I'd pay more for it, if they'd let me. 

This begs the obvious question:  Is there any in bottled water?  Because if there isn't, I'm going to be unhappy.  I'll just give the janitor a syringe and a bottle of ammonia, and the pallet of bottled water.  I demand that all of my drinking products have this goodness.

Also, meat.  They need to get everything out of my meat, because I miss trichenosis and ecoli.  I, as an American™, have a RIGHT to spirochetes, and now I feel cheated.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think this guy is right on the money. Discuss.
...

I was curious who 'this guy' might be.
search the quote, and see it's one "Jim 'fuck latinos' Carrey" at Zoklet....
oooooh-K. 

Regarding the topic, i'd say it's not so much the claim of ammonia in the meatproduct that got the attention, as it was the widely spread picture of the bright pink homogenous extrusion destined to become McNuggets.  the ammonia was just filler fear fodder.

hell.  we put ammonia in our water to treat it.  (the chlorine and ammonia is mixed to form chloramine in many municipalities.)

You are proposing quite the logical fallacy there. The fact that chloramine is used to treat tap water does not make ammonia good to eat. It doesn't make it bad to eat, either. It's just completely irrelevant.

i don't understand why it is irrelevant... 
the story about the meat points out that they use ammonia in the processing of the pink slime, with the implication that using ammonia as a sterilizing agent is a horrible thing that should never be allowed, and the fact that they are doing an 'expose' indicates that they were hiding the fact.
i said that we use ammonia in treating water, as well.  it's not a secret, and it's not considered a horrible thing.
i wasn't arguing that it is good.
i wasn't arguing that it is bad.
i was just pointing out that they were using the claim to arouse outrage that is unfounded because the implication is that using ammonia in sterilizing something we consume 'must be done deceptively!', when, in fact, it is a common practice in something as widely consumed as tap water, with full disclosure.

It's irrelevant because chloramine is not ammonia. It's also very toxic (which is what makes it useful as a disinfectant) and its use in drinking water, even at extremely dilute proportions, is linked to triggering asthma in asthma-prone children, but that's also irrelevant because it's not ammonia.

When you change something's chemical composition, it becomes a different chemical. Altering a single molecule can potentially make an innocuous chemical toxic, or a toxic chemical edible. Would you drink hydrogen peroxide? It's only a single molecule different from water, and is, in fact, made from water, much like chloramine is made from ammonia.

Chloramine:


Ammonia:


I am not opposed to use of chloramine in water (it beats amoebic dysentery hands-down), and I'm not sure I'm opposed to using ammonia to reduce the risk of e. coli (I got sick from e. coli once. The projectile vomiting is really, seriously no fun at all), although I have some concerns about companies using disinfectant as a substitute for safe handling. I'm just saying that the two are not comparable in the way you were using them, because they are different chemicals.

[BabylonHoruv]

I'm not sure about the effectiveness and cost of chloramine vs chlorine, but I know that both kill pretty much anything in the water and chlorine can be removed by just letting your water sit for a bit while chloramine is really hard to get out.

chlorination with chlorine, sure, keep the cholera out, chloramine though is going too far, at least in my opinion.

[Elder Iptuous]

I think this guy is right on the money. Discuss.
...

I was curious who 'this guy' might be.
search the quote, and see it's one "Jim 'fuck latinos' Carrey" at Zoklet....
oooooh-K. 

Regarding the topic, i'd say it's not so much the claim of ammonia in the meatproduct that got the attention, as it was the widely spread picture of the bright pink homogenous extrusion destined to become McNuggets.  the ammonia was just filler fear fodder.

hell.  we put ammonia in our water to treat it.  (the chlorine and ammonia is mixed to form chloramine in many municipalities.)

You are proposing quite the logical fallacy there. The fact that chloramine is used to treat tap water does not make ammonia good to eat. It doesn't make it bad to eat, either. It's just completely irrelevant.

i don't understand why it is irrelevant... 
the story about the meat points out that they use ammonia in the processing of the pink slime, with the implication that using ammonia as a sterilizing agent is a horrible thing that should never be allowed, and the fact that they are doing an 'expose' indicates that they were hiding the fact.
i said that we use ammonia in treating water, as well.  it's not a secret, and it's not considered a horrible thing.
i wasn't arguing that it is good.
i wasn't arguing that it is bad.
i was just pointing out that they were using the claim to arouse outrage that is unfounded because the implication is that using ammonia in sterilizing something we consume 'must be done deceptively!', when, in fact, it is a common practice in something as widely consumed as tap water, with full disclosure.

It's irrelevant because chloramine is not ammonia. It's also very toxic (which is what makes it useful as a disinfectant) and its use in drinking water, even at extremely dilute proportions, is linked to triggering asthma in asthma-prone children, but that's also irrelevant because it's not ammonia.

When you change something's chemical composition, it becomes a different chemical. Altering a single molecule can potentially make an innocuous chemical toxic, or a toxic chemical edible. Would you drink hydrogen peroxide? It's only a single molecule different from water, and is, in fact, made from water, much like chloramine is made from ammonia.

Chloramine:


Ammonia:


I am not opposed to use of chloramine in water (it beats amoebic dysentery hands-down), and I'm not sure I'm opposed to using ammonia to reduce the risk of e. coli (I got sick from e. coli once. The projectile vomiting is really, seriously no fun at all), although I have some concerns about companies using disinfectant as a substitute for safe handling. I'm just saying that the two are not comparable in the way you were using them, because they are different chemicals.

Many water treatment plants, including ours here in dallas, put chlorine in the water and ammonia in the water.  it forms chloramine in the water.  Yes i'm aware that this is a bit different than the chicken.
that is all missing my point, however.
I'm simply saying that they are using the word 'ammonia' as a fear trigger, regardless of whether it is actually a health risk, or not (otherwise, they would explain why that is dangerous, but they don't.  they just tack that word onto the image of the pink slime as an exclamation point.)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm just saying that using a completely irrelevant comparison is not exactly helpful. It doesn't illustrate a point.

"They're using ammonia as a scare tactic, but there isn't actually anything harmful or even unnatural about ingesting small amounts of ammonia" is a point. A valid one.

"Ammonia isn't bad to eat because they put chloramine in the water" is not a point, it's a non-sequitur. The irony is, of course, that by employing a false comparison, you're making the same logical fallacy you're complaining about.

I am very curious about why the pink slime debate has gone in the direction of criticizing the disinfectant, rather than the product itself. It's a weird shift of focus because the stuff is foul with or without being treated with ammonia. Red herring? So the makers can say "We listened! Pink slime is now made without ammonia!"

Keep in mind that until the 90's, the ends and bits that now go into pink slime used to be destined for the dog chow factory. We're eating this shit because it makes somebody money, not because it's wholesome food.

[Elder Iptuous]

perhaps you missed it when i said that they put -ammonia- in the water.
it does form chloramine when they put the chlorine in there, too, but they put -ammonia- in the water.
furthermore, i'm not making any claim that "Ammonia isn't bad to eat because yadda yadda...."

regardless, it is a minor point, and we are in agreement on the major point.
Chicken McNuggets are disgusting.
in fact, any meat product that has air bubbles in it because it was previously a liquid is pretty fucking gross...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

perhaps you missed it when i said that they put -ammonia- in the water.
it does form chloramine when they put the chlorine in there, too, but they put -ammonia- in the water.
furthermore, i'm not making any claim that "Ammonia isn't bad to eat because yadda yadda...."

regardless, it is a minor point, and we are in agreement on the major point.
Chicken McNuggets are disgusting.
in fact, any meat product that has air bubbles in it because it was previously a liquid is pretty fucking gross...

So, when people consume the water, are they consuming ammonia or chloramine? Sorry man, you're just being silly now. "But it's ammonia before it comes in contact with the chlorinated water and converts to chloramine" is pretty much exactly as irrelevant as the original comparison.

But yeah, I am in favor of appropriate and factual food labeling.

[Triple Zero]

Chloramine:


Ammonia:

As you can see, Ammonia is much bigger, so it penetrates cell membranes with more difficulty, while Chloramine is small and can therefore concentrate in higher doses within a smaller volume, making it much more dangerous.

[LMNO]

Ammonia =/= food.

It's in piss, though.

Piss is actually highly sterile when it first leaves the body.
               /

That all depends on what you've been putting up your urethra.

Sounds legit.