A Treatise On Calling People On Their Bullshit.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The only context I feel even marginally okay dropping n-bombs in is "potato nigger." Or telling people that free speech includes the right to say "niggertits" even if it is terribly offensive.

I know several white people who regularly say "What is up, my nigger?" in a context that completely breaks it down to an inoffensive level. Consider this context: You are black. You telephone your close friend. Friend answers the phone with "What is up, my nigger?" in an American business patois. Offensive, or affectionate?

Another: White friend enters a room of mixed race. White friend says (addressing everyone) "HEY NIGGAS!"

Or, white person enters a room of white friends: "HEY NIGGAS!"

As a (legally, LOL) black person in America, these are generally perceived to be non-offensive.

Offensive, or affectionate? Context provides the answers. FFS, me and my friends have a game we call "That's how you know you're really gangster". We do shit like go to the hardware store for a new toilet flush system. Friend texts, "Yo, bitch, just at the hardware store for some home improvement; THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW YOU'RE REALLY GANGSTER".

Is that racist? Or is it just (provided by context) some funny riffing? We all grow up. A guy who was once really punk rock might be at the store buying milk for his kids. You say "MILK, FUCK YEAH! YOU'RE PAF!"

Does that mean you are displaying bigotry against punks?

Those all sound pretty inoffensive, but like someone said earlier it's all about the participants in the conversation. Since I can't say those words comfortably in most contexts (even objectively non-offensive ones) it comes off as offensive if I attempt it.

It seems to be a somewhat regional thing as well - not going for the whole deep south thing, more like just a difference in cultures. As you move around the country, just as if you move around the world- different words hold different values for different people. For instance "niggerrig" - I grew up hearing it & never really thought it to be derogatory until later in life & a subsequent move to a different area.

Like what I mentioned about intended vs unintended audience, its a gray area - there's no defined line. Especially when you're out in a public setting - like for instance a sporting event, joking around "you're retarded" in jest. Say there's a special needs kid or parent behind you...

as far as any fighting goes, the assertions of pedantry in this case call for counter assertions of myopia -
http://www.specialolympics.org/coalition.aspx
http://r-word.org/


Is this some sort of, for lack of better term, an ownership issue?

I don't know if I can word that correctly, but it seems like certain words lose there bite when the groups that are attached to the pejorative usage basically say it's OK.

Retard was never used as a pejorative, as far as I am aware, in the UK for people with learning disabilities.

Differences in regional language use are really relevant. For example, the words "cunt", "fanny", and "bloody" are used entirely differently in the UK than in the US.

[MMIX]

Differences in regional language use are really relevant. For example, the words "cunt", "fanny", and "bloody" are used entirely differently in the UK than in the US.
[/quote]

The BBC apparently surveyed attitudes to "language" [read bad language] use a couple of years ago .
http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/06/are-you-a-wanker-if-you-say-retard-on-british-television/

The unacceptability of retard/retarded I found quite interesting
Your examples intrigued me Nigel so I tried to guage my own elderly brit attitude to them
On a scale of 1-10 the "c" word was an 11 The first time I said Fuck to my Dad he slapped my leg so hard that I still had the handprint two days later - believe me when I say I would NEVER have used the c word in his presence; though he is long dead now and its a word I not infrequently use though almost always to indicate the severity of my feeling/reaction.

I find fanny a kind of quaint and amusing 5/10- when I was a girl it always made me laugh that my prissy maiden aunt always censored my fanny to "Frances". But then she reckoned I had a "Bim" because she just couldn't bear to say the word "bum" because it was "common" - common being different from rude, of course.  Nowadays people habitually "fanny about" - just seems to be a pretty vanilla term.

Bloody; I am at a loss over that one. Yes its a venerable contraction of "by our lady", and the quintessential British vulgarism. Acceptabilty level high, hardly swearing at all. 1/10

So thats internal girly bits/cunt, external girly bits/fanny and damned if I know for bloody just a ubiquitously useful swearword.
So what's the American take on these then?

[Don Coyote]

I use 'bloody' a lot to replace 'fucking' especially on FB after my mother said she would block and unfriend me if I didn't stop using 'fuck' all the time. She of course did this on my wall.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I use 'bloody' a lot to replace 'fucking' especially on FB after my mother said she would block and unfriend me if I didn't stop using 'fuck' all the time. She of course did this on my wall.

So you told her to Fuck Off?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Differences in regional language use are really relevant. For example, the words "cunt", "fanny", and "bloody" are used entirely differently in the UK than in the US.

The BBC apparently surveyed attitudes to "language" [read bad language] use a couple of years ago .
http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/06/are-you-a-wanker-if-you-say-retard-on-british-television/

The unacceptability of retard/retarded I found quite interesting
Your examples intrigued me Nigel so I tried to guage my own elderly brit attitude to them
On a scale of 1-10 the "c" word was an 11 The first time I said Fuck to my Dad he slapped my leg so hard that I still had the handprint two days later - believe me when I say I would NEVER have used the c word in his presence; though he is long dead now and its a word I not infrequently use though almost always to indicate the severity of my feeling/reaction.

I find fanny a kind of quaint and amusing 5/10- when I was a girl it always made me laugh that my prissy maiden aunt always censored my fanny to "Frances". But then she reckoned I had a "Bim" because she just couldn't bear to say the word "bum" because it was "common" - common being different from rude, of course.  Nowadays people habitually "fanny about" - just seems to be a pretty vanilla term.

Bloody; I am at a loss over that one. Yes its a venerable contraction of "by our lady", and the quintessential British vulgarism. Acceptabilty level high, hardly swearing at all. 1/10

So thats internal girly bits/cunt, external girly bits/fanny and damned if I know for bloody just a ubiquitously useful swearword.
So what's the American take on these then?

In the US, "cunt" is one of the worst words out there, on par with "nigger" for being offensive. "Fanny" is either a name (such as in the Fanny Farmer cookbook), or a delicate way to refer to a person's backside... and "bum" is a word for an indigent drunk. "Bloody" is not a swear word in any way, shape, or form, it's just a literal term that means something is bleeding.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh yeah, and "wanker" is just an amusing Britishism. 

[MMIX]

Oh yeah, and "wanker" is just an amusing Britishism. 

For the longest time hearing americans use wanker casually on the TV to make my jaw drop, in a totally sniggering sort of way. Always made me want to pat America on the head for not knowing what it meant. But then I always had a problem with funky myself, which got britified into cool and groovy [yeah, its my age, humour me] when I believe its something to do with bad smells? correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh yeah, and "wanker" is just an amusing Britishism. 

For the longest time hearing americans use wanker casually on the TV to make my jaw drop, in a totally sniggering sort of way. Always made me want to pat America on the head for not knowing what it meant. But then I always had a problem with funky myself, which got britified into cool and groovy [yeah, its my age, humour me] when I believe its something to do with bad smells? correct me if I'm wrong.

"Funky" has multiple uses. A bad smell: "My fridge smells funky, I think something's gone bad in there". A mood: "I think I might have depression, I've just felt funky lately". A music genre related to R&B: "I love those funky beats!" and a cool sense of style: "She's got an awesomely funky wardrobe".

[P3nT4gR4m]

Scotland is split over cunt. Posh fucks seem to think it's the devils own word but for the rest of us it's not even derogatory, it's just a synonym for "person" eg. "Who's round is it?" - "This cunt here"

I've got into trouble before, specially around english, saying something along the lines of "holy fuck, you're a big cunt" when being introduced to an exceedingly tall person, for instance

[Doktor Howl]

Differences in regional language use are really relevant. For example, the words "cunt", "fanny", and "bloody" are used entirely differently in the UK than in the US.

The BBC apparently surveyed attitudes to "language" [read bad language] use a couple of years ago .
http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/06/are-you-a-wanker-if-you-say-retard-on-british-television/

The unacceptability of retard/retarded I found quite interesting
Your examples intrigued me Nigel so I tried to guage my own elderly brit attitude to them
On a scale of 1-10 the "c" word was an 11 The first time I said Fuck to my Dad he slapped my leg so hard that I still had the handprint two days later - believe me when I say I would NEVER have used the c word in his presence; though he is long dead now and its a word I not infrequently use though almost always to indicate the severity of my feeling/reaction.

I find fanny a kind of quaint and amusing 5/10- when I was a girl it always made me laugh that my prissy maiden aunt always censored my fanny to "Frances". But then she reckoned I had a "Bim" because she just couldn't bear to say the word "bum" because it was "common" - common being different from rude, of course.  Nowadays people habitually "fanny about" - just seems to be a pretty vanilla term.

Bloody; I am at a loss over that one. Yes its a venerable contraction of "by our lady", and the quintessential British vulgarism. Acceptabilty level high, hardly swearing at all. 1/10

So thats internal girly bits/cunt, external girly bits/fanny and damned if I know for bloody just a ubiquitously useful swearword.
So what's the American take on these then?

In the US, "cunt" is one of the worst words out there, on par with "nigger" for being offensive. "Fanny" is either a name (such as in the Fanny Farmer cookbook), or a delicate way to refer to a person's backside... and "bum" is a word for an indigent drunk. "Bloody" is not a swear word in any way, shape, or form, it's just a literal term that means something is bleeding.

"Cunt" is used in the trades to describe a piece of equipment that is being balky...IE, "This gasket's being a cunt.  It won't stay where I put it."

From what I gather, "cunt" in England is actually a form of punctuation.

[MMIX]

"Cunt" is used in the trades to describe a piece of equipment that is being balky...IE, "This gasket's being a cunt.  It won't stay where I put it."

From what I gather, "cunt" in England is actually a form of punctuation.

I think that's quite a recent development, you see we don't "cee and blind" we "eff and blind", with cunting in the last 30 years or so edging the more traditional fucking gently to one side. Or there again maybe its just an influx of dirty mouthed Scots  

[P3nT4gR4m]

funny cunt 

[MMIX]

funny cunt 

Sodding right 

[Doktor Howl]

"Cunt" is used in the trades to describe a piece of equipment that is being balky...IE, "This gasket's being a cunt.  It won't stay where I put it."

From what I gather, "cunt" in England is actually a form of punctuation.

I think that's quite a recent development, you see we don't "cee and blind" we "eff and blind", with cunting in the last 30 years or so edging the more traditional fucking gently to one side. Or there again maybe its just an influx of dirty mouthed Scots

Actually, I'm referring to the middle ages as well.

How many English cities have a "Grope Lane"?  That used to be "Grope Cunt Lane", which was the red light district's English name from the 1300s to the 1700s.  Likewise, there's more than a few extant English sources from the Victorian age that flung the word around all over the place.

Also, I've been to England many times, and they need no help in that department from the Scots, who mostly grunt and whistle to communicate.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

I offer a hypothetical scenario. A group of people are in a social situation, and someone says something that is sexist, racist, homophobic yada yada. Imagine this group is a bunch of white guys, and it's a rape joke or similar mysogynistic bullshit, some flippant assed comment on a person of colour, or a non-hetero person.

So you're in the pub with your mates, having a generally good time, and someone pipes up with this crap. If you laugh out of discomfort, or shuffle on your seat and say nothing, YOU ARE TELLING THEM THAT THIS SHIT IS NORMAL, ACCEPTABLE. You are reinforcing the shitty status quo.  You may disagree with them, you may think it's a shitty thing to say, but if you don't OPEN YOUR FUCKING MOUTH AND CALL THEM ON IT, you are just as bad as they are. They may claim that they don't actually believe the shit they are saying, or "I was just being ironic" or some lame assed crap, but they need to be reminded that although they may not believe it, some wankers MIGHT. And by telling their shitty joke, laughing at it, or not rebuking someone, you are telling them that this shit is okay. It's a pretty dickish move. I think it is especially important to do this if you are a straight man, a white man or someone who isn't usually shat on by this behaviour, cos the wimmens, the POC and teh Gheys need allies in the War Against Bullshit.

Now, I realise that in some places, like work, that calling people out on their crap may not be the best thing to do on a personal level, especially if it doesn't relate directly to you/a colleague, and in a recession where your ass might get fired and another job might be not forthcoming. We all have to eat, pay bills, keep ourselves housed and clothed. It would be fucking awesome if we could speak up and not jeopardise our livelihoods, or personal safety, but if you are broke or in hospital or dead, you aren't much use to the practice of Calling People On Their Bullshit.

In a social situation, however the stakes aren't anywhere near as high.  All you have to lose is a douchenozzle, and we could all stand to have less of them in our lives. If you don't lose someone, and they start to, heaven forbid, THINK BEFORE THEY SPEAK or start calling people on their crap, well, you have just done the world a solid. If you do this, I wont salute you, or buy you a drink (unless you did it with Style and Wit, then I'll buy you a drink for being a Glorious Faggot) cos you have merely been a decent biped, and by rights, this should be your default setting.

OR FUCKING KILL ME.

I think the optimal response in this situation would be to counter with an equally offensive remark targeted at the offender.