dangerous territory/devil's advocate

[Cain]

About 25% of Americans have firearms. 

I was quite happy with using knives, not least because knives have other uses, but apparently carrying anything with the intent to use it as a weapon is against the law.  Plus wearing a hooded jumper and carrying a blade is a potentially life-destroying move in the UK, because DECAYING MORALS, YOOFS, GANGS, DRUGS, RAP, BLACK PEOPLE, SOMETHING.  It was never properly explained to me, but it made you a Bad Person.

I liked working in a pub kitchen, it gave me a legit reason to carry an 8" carving knife on me.  I also had a decent flashlight that would probably break some bones, because, well, I worked nights sometimes, and the lanes in my town didn't have lights, because that would have involved paying taxes and the Tories who run my town instinctively recoil from the idea of spending money on anything other than their own expense budgets.  But an edge puts the fear of god into people too stupid to realise how useful a metal club can be, so...

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I dunno about the non-licensing thing. It would be like everyone being able to get behind the wheel as soon as the turned 16 whether or not they've been properly taught.

That's how we do it here.  There is no driver's ed, and if you can pass the test, you can drive.  So, while it's regulated, there's no formal training of any kind.  Oh, and yes, we have horrible wrecks all the time.

My argument for having everyone armed is that it is obviously not safe, and I don't want anyone feeling safe at any price.  I'd rather see everyone adjust to danger or go mad.

"Safe" isn't a proper environment for primates.  "Safe" is a method of conditioning.  I'll expand on that if you like, after the morning staff meeting.

Please do. I'll need a coffee myself.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

About 25% of Americans have firearms. 

I was quite happy with using knives, not least because knives have other uses, but apparently carrying anything with the intent to use it as a weapon is against the law.  Plus wearing a hooded jumper and carrying a blade is a potentially life-destroying move in the UK, because DECAYING MORALS, YOOFS, GANGS, DRUGS, RAP, BLACK PEOPLE, SOMETHING.  It was never properly explained to me, but it made you a Bad Person.

I liked working in a pub kitchen, it gave me a legit reason to carry an 8" carving knife on me.  I also had a decent flashlight that would probably break some bones, because, well, I worked nights sometimes, and the lanes in my town didn't have lights, because that would have involved paying taxes and the Tories who run my town instinctively recoil from the idea of spending money on anything other than their own expense budgets.  But an edge puts the fear of god into people too stupid to realise how useful a metal club can be, so...

25% sounds right to me.

One of my guitar teachers used to mention a few innocuous things that a musician could be expected to carry around that could be used as a weapon. A screwdriver, for example.

[Cain]

The screwdriver is one of the favourite weapons of the Scottish Ned.  I found a bloodstained one on a bus in Glasgow once.  Since I was the only one on the bus, there didn't seemt to be much I could do about it...

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The screwdriver is one of the favourite weapons of the Scottish Ned.  I found a bloodstained one on a bus in Glasgow once.  Since I was the only one on the bus, there didn't seemt to be much I could do about it...

Yeah, probably not.

[Freeky]

Anything can be a weapon, provided you have the imagination and motivation.

I've enjoyed having a car because my key ring is longhand pointy, just the thing for driving into fleshy tender places around the face.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Anything can be a weapon, provided you have the imagination and motivation.

I've enjoyed having a car because my key ring is longhand pointy, just the thing for driving into fleshy tender places around the face.

Well, a lot of things can anyway. I'd recommend practicing beforehand with whatever you're planning on using to make sure it doesn't break, slip out of your hand, or cause yourself an injury in the process. I've never been able to get keys to work, but if the handle part it is bulky enough I could see that working.

Some of the things I've carried as a nasty troubled youth:

• 1lb sinker tied to a sturdy nylon cord
• Heavy chain with carabiner worn as an unnecessary belt
• Pillow case inside of a pillow case full of dead batteries
• A variety of hammers
• Good ol' lead pipe

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I dunno about the non-licensing thing. It would be like everyone being able to get behind the wheel as soon as the turned 16 whether or not they've been properly taught.

That's how we do it here.  There is no driver's ed, and if you can pass the test, you can drive.  So, while it's regulated, there's no formal training of any kind.  Oh, and yes, we have horrible wrecks all the time.

My argument for having everyone armed is that it is obviously not safe, and I don't want anyone feeling safe at any price.  I'd rather see everyone adjust to danger or go mad.

"Safe" isn't a proper environment for primates.  "Safe" is a method of conditioning.  I'll expand on that if you like, after the morning staff meeting.

Please do. I'll need a coffee myself.

What is the best way to oppress a population? 

To get them to buy into it, and thus oppress themselves.  We saw this after 9/11, and we see it in the safety Nazi culture that has developed in America (and elsewhere) since the 1970s.  It doesn't matter whether people are shrying about terrorists or "doing it for the children" or whatnot, it's the same thing.

I distinguish between actual safety concerns (cribs that choke children to save on the cost of additional slats, car safety requirements, UL listings required on extension cords, lifeguards at pools, etc) from the idea of legislating personal behavior that does not pose a direct risk to people around them.

Examples: 

Seat belt laws:  Good.  A minor accident can turn into a major accident if the driver is hurled away from the controls in, for example, a "sideswipe" accident, leading to a direct physical threat to uninvolved people.

Helmet laws:  Bad.  You endanger nobody but yourself by not wearing a helmet on a bike. 

Gun registration:  Bad.  The population is better served by hordes of anonymous gun owners than by restriction of gun rights...Accidents and weird shootings notwithstanding, violent crime (and just general bad behavior) decreases in an armed population, not to mention the threat it poses to would-be tyrants (obviously, a bunch of yokels with pistols aren't going to do jack shit to a military unit, but it only takes one bullet to settle a tyrant's hash).  The fact that most Americans desperately WANT a tyrant doesn't change this fact.  In addition, the pistol is "the great equalizer".  The strong have trouble fucking with the weak, if they don't know which weak people are packing.  Lastly, an armed population has a different mindset, and typically find it easier to say "no".  Disarming a population doesn't make things any safer (I offer England as proof), but it DOES make it more compliant.

Drug laws:  Depends on the drug in question (ie, does it cause the user to become a direct physical threat to those around them).  Not going to expand on this because, well, you know.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am a flat-out Socialist and a social liberal. I believe in high government services, regulations on practices that impact the quality of life for citizens, and low government interference in individual lives and choices.

I'm a Marxist-Nigelist.

[P3nT4gR4m]

"Safe" isn't a proper environment for primates.  "Safe" is a method of conditioning.

Fucking YES! Like, 100 times - YES!

Why can't they see this? 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"Safe" isn't a proper environment for primates.  "Safe" is a method of conditioning.

Fucking YES! Like, 100 times - YES!

Why can't they see this? 

Because it's scary, and people are really small these days.

[Faust]

Safe or unsafe only come into play on a personal level of the responsibility of the individual, if you have irresponsible, impulsive or stupid people, you get high gun death and high gun crime. I also don't think people having guns keeps any kind of government in check. In fact I think they use it as an easy issue to rally numbers from the pro or against crowd.

There are several high power, volatile or toxic things I would enjoy keeping upon my person and though it would be highly entertaining if everyone else was entitled to as well it's not a place I would consider living or having a family.

I guess that's what it boils down to, the more rights and freedom the lowest common denominator has to dangerous or stupid shit, the shittier the quality of life in that region but the most morally pure.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Safe or unsafe only come into play on a personal level of the responsibility of the individual, if you have irresponsible, impulsive or stupid people, you get high gun death and high gun crime. I also don't think people having guns keeps any kind of government in check. In fact I think they use it as an easy issue to rally numbers from the pro or against crowd.

There are several high power, volatile or toxic things I would enjoy keeping upon my person and though it would be highly entertaining if everyone else was entitled to as well it's not a place I would consider living or having a family.

I guess that's what it boils down to, the more rights and freedom the lowest common denominator has to dangerous or stupid shit, the shittier the quality of life in that region but the most morally pure.

I don't know about that, Faust.  I live in a state that allows anyone 18 years old or older, who has no felony or domestic violent misdemeanors on their record, to carry a firearm, openly or concealed.

We had 35 murders in 2009, in a population almost exactly the same as Dublin's.  9 of them were committed with firearms.  Most of the rest were the standard Tucson "knife 'em and toss them in a dumpster" murders.

Dublin's results were 19 gang-related shootings by November.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Dublin-has-become-the-gun-murder-capital-of-Europe-69575922.html

So I don't think legalization has much to do with whether or not a particular place is a good place to raise a family.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Also while certainly it wasnt the only factor- guns do make a difference against a government. If it didnt youd be british and id have dual citizenship with the united kingdom.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Granted those were illegal firearms smuggled from boston and new york but hey a gun is a gun.