Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[Pope Lecherous]

I want to hear your answer.

I move on.

And what if she DOES have some sort of hang up?  Is a man entitled to "cure" her by pushing sex on her?

Of course not, that would only damage her more. A "cure" would involve some sort of counseling, something that actually heals the damage.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

As a matter of fact, the guys I've known who were most successful with women (in the sense of getting almost whoever they wanted) weren't anything approaching PUA's, and they loved women. I mean, they enjoyed female company and listened when women talked. They looked out for women. Poly as hell, but they loved every one of them.

An Ethical Man Slut rather than a PUA. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

As a matter of fact, the guys I've known who were most successful with women (in the sense of getting almost whoever they wanted) weren't anything approaching PUA's, and they loved women. I mean, they enjoyed female company and listened when women talked. They looked out for women. Poly as hell, but they loved every one of them.

An Ethical Man Slut rather than a PUA.

We prefer to think of ourselves as DIRTY LITTLE GIRLS, thank you so much.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

As a matter of fact, the guys I've known who were most successful with women (in the sense of getting almost whoever they wanted) weren't anything approaching PUA's, and they loved women. I mean, they enjoyed female company and listened when women talked. They looked out for women. Poly as hell, but they loved every one of them.

An Ethical Man Slut rather than a PUA.

Ethics are hawt. 

I want to hear your answer.

I move on.

And what if she DOES have some sort of hang up?  Is a man entitled to "cure" her by pushing sex on her?

Of course not, that would only damage her more. A "cure" would involve some sort of counseling, something that actually heals the damage.

Blackfoot, what do you define as a "hang up" that requires counseling?

As a matter of fact, the guys I've known who were most successful with women (in the sense of getting almost whoever they wanted) weren't anything approaching PUA's, and they loved women. I mean, they enjoyed female company and listened when women talked. They looked out for women. Poly as hell, but they loved every one of them.

An Ethical Man Slut rather than a PUA.

We prefer to think of ourselves as DIRTY LITTLE GIRLS, thank you so much.

[Pope Lecherous]

On the other hand, if this boundary is based upon a personal rule or for no reason at all , then the boundary is set in stone and is not to be crossed.

You're not being clear in any way at all. You seem to be very vaguely trying to justify overriding another person's boundaries. If the boundaries are simply that she doesn't feel like having sex for some reason, in what way is it your place to "alleviate her concerns"? What if she doesn't have any concerns other than NOT FEELING LIKE IT?

That would fall under the above category.

The way this "alleviating her concerns" usually seems to go, IME:
<making out>
Him: "do you want to get naked?"
Me: "Not tonight"
Him: "Come on baby, I'm a nice guy! I promise it'll be great..."
Me: "GTFO"
Him: "What? Wait, what did I do? Am I going to see you again?"
Me: "Fuck off. GTFO."
Him: "She must have issues."

By the time it gets to this point it's over.  The only choice he has is to respect her wishes and end that line of conversation gracefully or they'd get a response like you continued with.  I would respond with something to the effect of, "ok."  I would let an awkward pause ensue then ask you if i made things awkward.  The conversation would go from there, but would not include any sort of propositioning.

So, Blackfoot, I'll ask you once again:

1. What makes you think it's your place to second-guess a woman's decision to not have sex?

I don't. I deal with it long before it reaches the point in your example.

2. What would a situation look like where a woman put up resistance to sex, and you felt that it was your place to identify and alleviate her concerns? Be specific. If you have ever been in such a situation, give us an example.

The key is that, by the time there is resistance to sex, I leave it alone. It's done.  I anticipate the potential hangups and handle them before they become an issue.  A few examples in a club setting would be; I barely know you, I can't leave my friends, I have a boyfriend, we don't have a place, i have work in the morning, i'm a conservative christian, etc.

Reading body language, facial expressions, and mood is critical.  If i have one skill it is certainly the ability to read these things.  Not even joking, i have saved my own life and the lives of others reading body language.

3. Have you ever actually had sex with a woman?

Yes. Do you find that doubtful?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

On the other hand, if this boundary is based upon a personal rule or for no reason at all , then the boundary is set in stone and is not to be crossed.

You're not being clear in any way at all. You seem to be very vaguely trying to justify overriding another person's boundaries. If the boundaries are simply that she doesn't feel like having sex for some reason, in what way is it your place to "alleviate her concerns"? What if she doesn't have any concerns other than NOT FEELING LIKE IT?

That would fall under the above category.

So you wouldn't consider it OK to push her boundaries under those circumstances?

The way this "alleviating her concerns" usually seems to go, IME:
<making out>
Him: "do you want to get naked?"
Me: "Not tonight"
Him: "Come on baby, I'm a nice guy! I promise it'll be great..."
Me: "GTFO"
Him: "What? Wait, what did I do? Am I going to see you again?"
Me: "Fuck off. GTFO."
Him: "She must have issues."

By the time it gets to this point it's over.  The only choice he has is to respect her wishes and end that line of conversation gracefully or they'd get a response like you continued with.  I would respond with something to the effect of, "ok."  I would let an awkward pause ensue then ask you if i made things awkward.  The conversation would go from there, but would not include any sort of propositioning.

Why you gotta make it awkward? What's the point? Just to be a manipulative ass? I can't tell you how many hot hot makeout sessions I've had with one person or another calling it good and heading home. The evening has to end at some point, and ending it after a hot makeout session sounds better than ending it without a hot makeout session. Making it awkward for no reason sounds more like manipulation or sabotaging a potentially good thing, to me. One of my favorite lovers ever, on our first date we made out and it was INSANELY HOT, but we were both tired and it was time for me to go. He could have made sure I never went out with him again by making things awkward, but he's a grownup so he didn't feel the need to do that. The next time I saw him, we had fantastic monkey sex.

So, Blackfoot, I'll ask you once again:

1. What makes you think it's your place to second-guess a woman's decision to not have sex?

I don't. I deal with it long before it reaches the point in your example.

So, you DON'T feel like it's OK to push a woman's boundaries when she says no to sex? Then what are you arguing about? Do you even know?

2. What would a situation look like where a woman put up resistance to sex, and you felt that it was your place to identify and alleviate her concerns? Be specific. If you have ever been in such a situation, give us an example.

The key is that, by the time there is resistance to sex, I leave it alone. It's done.  I anticipate the potential hangups and handle them before they become an issue.  A few examples in a club setting would be; I barely know you, I can't leave my friends, I have a boyfriend, we don't have a place, i have work in the morning, i'm a conservative christian, etc.

Reading body language, facial expressions, and mood is critical.  If i have one skill it is certainly the ability to read these things.  Not even joking, i have saved my own life and the lives of others reading body language.

3. Have you ever actually had sex with a woman?

Yes. Do you find that doubtful?

Yes, I do. I suppose if your MO is taking home inebriated club girls it's less improbable than it sounds.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I AM kind of wondering what the argument is about.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I AM kind of wondering what the argument is about.

It's about how Blackfoot said PUA has positive applications, only he says he didn't, but he did.

I think at this point it degenerates into how much poon he says he gets, and where he says he gets it, which is probably quite different from what actually happens, or probably, doesn't happen.

RIP, productive thread. Hello, &PUA&PUA&PUA.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Oh, wow. You really are DOUR. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So, Blackfoot, when you're picking up these inebriated club girls and you anticipate their "hangups":

A few examples in a club setting would be; I barely know you, I can't leave my friends, I have a boyfriend, we don't have a place, i have work in the morning, i'm a conservative christian, etc.

...how do you "handle" them? Examples of the dialogue, please.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

So, Blackfoot, when you're picking up these inebriated club girls and you anticipate their "hangups":

A few examples in a club setting would be; I barely know you, I can't leave my friends, I have a boyfriend, we don't have a place, i have work in the morning, i'm a conservative christian, etc.

...how do you "handle" them? Examples of the dialogue, please.

I missed that, I tend to skim-read his blather...he considers those HANGUPS? Possibly requiring counseling? WTF???

(Excuse me a second, Nigel, I have to translate these.)

"I barely know you" = "FUCK OFF".

"I can't leave my friends" = "FUCK OFF".

"I have a boyfriend = "FUCK OFF".

"We don't have a place" = "FUCK OFF".

"I have to work in the morning" = "FUCK OFF".

"I'm a conservative christian" = "FUCK OFF"

"etc." = "FUCK OFF"

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

IOW, Blackfoot, you're saying women with jobs, friends and/or boyfriends are "damaged"?
Because they don't want to fuck you?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

IOW, Blackfoot, you're saying women with jobs, friends and/or boyfriends are "damaged"?
Because they don't want to fuck you?

To be fair, I don't think that's what he's trying to say.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

IOW, Blackfoot, you're saying women with jobs, friends and/or boyfriends are "damaged"?
Because they don't want to fuck you?

To be fair, I don't think that's what he's trying to say.

In an earlier post he was talking about hangups that require counseling, and then in anther post he listed these things as examples of potential hangups. But you're correct, there's no continuity in the things he says and as soon as he posts anything, it's NOT WHAT HE SAID and he's on to some other shit.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So, Blackfoot, when you're picking up these inebriated club girls and you anticipate their "hangups":

A few examples in a club setting would be; I barely know you, I can't leave my friends, I have a boyfriend, we don't have a place, i have work in the morning, i'm a conservative christian, etc.

...how do you "handle" them? Examples of the dialogue, please.

I missed that, I tend to skim-read his blather...he considers those HANGUPS? Possibly requiring counseling? WTF???

(Excuse me a second, Nigel, I have to translate these.)

"I barely know you" = "FUCK OFF".

"I can't leave my friends" = "FUCK OFF".

"I have a boyfriend = "FUCK OFF".

"We don't have a place" = "FUCK OFF".

"I have to work in the morning" = "FUCK OFF".

"I'm a conservative christian" = "FUCK OFF"

"etc." = "FUCK OFF"

I think that pretty much nails it.

EVERY time I've encountered some douche who thinks he can talk me out of whatever polite excuse I've given him instead of "FUCK OFF", he's turned out to be the kind of insufferable chodebag who follows me around pathetically trying to kiss me or grab my ass until I tell him to fuck off.

NEWSFLASH: WE SAY THESE THINGS INSTEAD OF "FUCK OFF" IN AN ATTEMPT TO BE NICE. "I have a boyfriend" does not mean, "I totally want to fuck you and I would if only I didn't have a boyfriend getting in the way". It means "I'm trying to get rid of you using politer words than FUCK OFF".

If wheedling and conning them past their "hangups" gets you one night stands with drunk and emotionally damaged club girls who don't know what they want or how to stand up for themselves, um, I guess all I have to say is, gross, I hope you grow up someday.