The Deciders

[MMIX]

OK OK, when you boys have finished working out why feminism is irrelevant and how the 50 yr old white unemployed guy trumps 50 + years of feminist research and is an appropriate put-down to Nigels excellent OP you give us a shout eh?

We'll be in the kitchen; barefoot and pregnant

[AFK]

I'm not even addressing feminism with my critique.  I'm addressing inappropriately labeling people.  It's not about anyone trumping anyone else.  It's about insultingly supposing powerless people have power just because they share the same skin tone and reproductive devices as those who DO have power.

[Salty]

OK OK, when you boys have finished working out why feminism is irrelevant and how the 50 yr old white unemployed guy trumps 50 + years of feminist research and is an appropriate put-down to Nigels excellent OP you give us a shout eh?

We'll be in the kitchen; barefoot and pregnant

If you can't refrain from assuming people willing to engage in this kind of dialogue are boys are undoing feminism, how, exactly do you think it's going to work IRL? Well, is it? Anyone HERE calling you a silly girl because they don't like the way you're presenting your argument? No one is suggesting women do anything, ITT. What's presented is an arguement that you can't lump all straight white men together without harming the movement. At least, that's what I'm getting.

[AFK]

Any movement.  Politics of division will work against any movement devoted to progress in society whether it is feminism, or any other kind of movement for cultural acceptance or equality.

[MMIX]

I'm not even addressing feminism with my critique.  I'm addressing inappropriately labeling people.  It's not about anyone trumping anyone else.  It's about insultingly supposing powerless people have power just because they share the same skin tone and reproductive devices as those who DO have power.

@Alty yeah I probably should have put a wink on that post.


You know if you want to talk about "inappropriate[] labelling" GD you might want to not suggest your examplar feels "completely worthless". From a feminist perspective this obviously derives from your patriarchal prejudice that he actually IS "completely worthless" because he has failed as a provider.

So,did you actually read what Nigel was saying? I've heard a lot of the sort of comments that Nigel was pillorying made on PD, sad but true. And what do you think your 50+ white unemployed man example man would say about gays getting married or women who get raped or black men in the south or any of the other stuff that has been brought up? Start thinking about your definitions of power, its not about being in the 1% it is the pervasive influence of patriarchal structures.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

You make a good point, RWHN.

The most widespread and pervasive oppression involves economic class. Agreed.

But does this invalidate, excuse, or justify the idea that most straight white men still have privilege which ought to be examined?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Did you motherfuckers put me on ignore, or something?

No, I'm just unused to this much posting anymore, and I'm horribly, horribly lost.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Is it possible that the disenfranchised SWM youth that the Deciders market to are choosing products that reinforce the Opression of She?

And if so, the passive acceptance of what the Deciders present contribute to and enforce the Opression.

Therefore, the SWMY are a crucial tool being used by the Deciders.

And so the SWMY need to be woken up to their dilemma -- they are not benefiting from the Patriarchy, but they are actively participating in it.

An excellent point, good sir.

[Juana]

Is it possible that the disenfranchised SWM youth that the Deciders market to are choosing products that reinforce the Opression of She?

And if so, the passive acceptance of what the Deciders present contribute to and enforce the Opression.

Therefore, the SWMY are a crucial tool being used by the Deciders.

And so the SWMY need to be woken up to their dilemma -- they are not benefiting from the Patriarchy, but they are actively participating in it.

An excellent point, good sir.

^^^ That. Sorry, LMNO. Was on mah phone.

Until you realize who the powerholder in the game is, you are limited in your ability to fight back. Yes, it's super rich people who are the ULTIMATE deciders. But SWM are Deciders on a broad scale, too (and this does not make the SWM bad or whatever; it's just a fact). I've already gone through why, like three times, and I am not interested in repeating myself too much, but the top dog in the game (except for class, yes I know) is the straight white male.
And even within class boundaries, the SWM is going to be better off than anyone else in that class demographic.

You (a generalized 'you') have race, sex/gender, and heterosexual privileges. Society as a whole (because it is dictated by the straight white male) puts more value on you than it does on any other demographic. You are the norm (how many tv shows center around someone who ISN'T a straight white dude? In tv shows that aren't about a SWM, how often do you see him being an extremely important character? How many times do you see non-SWM characters being stereotyped? how often are these other characters formally or informally subordinate to the SWM?). You are what society caters to. You are what the system is built to protect*.

I realize this may be difficult to accept, especially if you are not a rich Decider, but it is nevertheless true, and I'M NOT A DECIDER BECAUSE I'M NOT RICH! is really not a good answer. It's historically and factually incorrect.


_{*Again, even correcting for class, the system is supposed to protect straight white men at the expense of other groups.}

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And even within class boundaries, the SWM is going to be better off than anyone else in that class demographic.

With damn near no exceptions, this is true in America and Canada.  I suspect mostly everywhere else, too.

[Signora Pæsior]

And even within class boundaries, the SWM is going to be better off than anyone else in that class demographic.

With damn near no exceptions, this is true in America and Canada.  I suspect mostly everywhere else, too.

Yep, that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It also occurs to me that we won't ever settle the class issue until we get our own house in order.

Hard to STICK IT TO THE MAN, when you're too busy sticking it to each other.

[Placid Dingo]

Thinking more, I do like the OP, and I think I'm mostly stumbling over some jargon that doesn't mesh for me.

[Freeky]

You are really not getting it. Advertising is aimed at SWM. Politicians throw the rest of the population under the bus to get their vote. Books and video games are aimed at SWM.

Your consumption determines societal output. Fucking read what I goddamn posted in the post right after that.

Being "The Deciders" for XBOX marketing isn't quite the same as being "The Deciders" for public policy. 

Yes one has a direct impact on the lives of millions and and enacts change over time, the other is public policy.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Is it possible that the disenfranchised SWM youth that the Deciders market to are choosing products that reinforce the Opression of She?

And if so, the passive acceptance of what the Deciders present contribute to and enforce the Opression.

Therefore, the SWMY are a crucial tool being used by the Deciders.

And so the SWMY need to be woken up to their dilemma -- they are not benefiting from the Patriarchy, but they are actively participating in it.

Yes, this, absolutely.