Nothing to do with anything.

[Juana]

Actually, Alty, feminism can help you there a very direct way (this isn't even touching on the wider level of feminism). Homophobia directed at men contains a strong element of misogyny, because homosexual men aren't seen as real men (because real men only want to fuck the ladies). If you want to fuck men, that makes you too much like a woman to be a man. And women are Lesser.

If women were not Lesser, then that would knock a leg out from under homophobia.

ETA: "Maricon" means "big Mary", yes? I'd think that be a cue, when a woman's name is literal translation of the slur.

[Bu🤠ns]

Actually, Alty, feminism can help you there a very direct way (this isn't even touching on the wider level of feminism). Homophobia directed at men contains a strong element of misogyny, because homosexual men aren't seen as real men (because real men only want to fuck the ladies). If you want to fuck men, that makes you too much like a woman to be a man. And women are Lesser.

If women were not Lesser, then that would knock a leg out from under homophobia.

ETA: "Maricon" means "big Mary", yes? I'd think that be a cue, when a woman's name is literal translation of the slur.

Thanks for saying what I was trying to say in a better way from a different point of view.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well I'm NOT fucking sorry. I have seen more knuckle-dragging, chest-beating, ego-driven mouthbreathing here over this subject than I EVER expected to see over ANYTHING. I have seen flat out wingnut-level denial and MANIFEST FUCKING RETARDATION all in pursuit of denying the reality of social inequality between the sexes. I have seen people I look up to say things more suited to the mouths of politicians. I have seen WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE bare its canines and roar in SHEER MONKEY OUTRAGE at being pointed at with a finger. I can't imagine that I can come back to this board and stomach it and have serious conversations here after seeing the things some people have said; it's when you overhear someone you once respected talking about "them niggers"; you can't ever really look them in the eye again.

Oh hey, no, I got it. We are clear there.

Oh, it's clear, all right.  Somehow I got blamed for this mess.  I am - and apparently you are also - a "so-called friend". 

And that's okay, because the person I thought was my friend apparently views me as her own personal bile bucket, to vomit her bad day on as she sees fit.  That's not a friend...Either she honestly believes that somehow I've turned into Archie Bunker overnight, or she views me as something less than human, something that can be abused whenever the mood takes her...and neither case is acceptable.  I haven't treated her like that, or done a fucking thing to deserve this.

Enough is enough.

[Freeky]

Nigel is acting weird and fucked up to a lot of people right now. I'm concerned, but there's no excuses for this garbage Nigel is heaping on the dudes here.

[minuspace]

Disarming/disparaging the invidious comment with a retort to the effect of how, actually, you just may be too good looking for that, well, it tends to take a few beats...

[Epimetheus]

So I'll keep a watch out for assholes, and you can fucking KEEP feminism.

This line is in poor taste, and I don't fault Nigel for getting pissed. Do you actually have anything against feminism, the idea that females should be treated equally with males?

If not, then it's not feminism that you think we should fucking KEEP. Please be more precise, or you risk people taking you at your word.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So I'll keep a watch out for assholes, and you can fucking KEEP feminism.

This line is in poor taste, and I don't fault Nigel for getting pissed. Do you actually have anything against feminism, the idea that females should be treated equally with males?

If not, then it's not feminism that you think we should fucking KEEP. Please be more precise, or you risk people taking you at your word.

I see the buzzards are circling.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

So I'll keep a watch out for assholes, and you can fucking KEEP feminism.

This line is in poor taste, and I don't fault Nigel for getting pissed. Do you actually have anything against feminism, the idea that females should be treated equally with males?

If not, then it's not feminism that you think we should fucking KEEP. Please be more precise, or you risk people taking you at your word.

Feminism is an ism. I don't hold ANY ism as sacred or holy.

Let's look at the actual effects, shall we?

Pros: It's easier to file rape, domestic abuse, sex discrimination, or sexual harassment. We can vote. And...uhhhh...can't call anything else to mind.

Cons: We're expected to take on traditional male roles IN ADDITION to our traditional female roles, which boils down to holding at least one job while maintaining a nice home and caring for kids. We're expected to be in several places at once, and if we let any one area slide in order to attend to something else, we're deemed "irresponsible" and "neglectful". We're expected to take off of work at the drop of a hat every time a teacher wants to discuss something. We tend to get fired, drug tested and investigated by child services from the time our first child is born until the last one hits 17.

Have you noticed how nobody calls feminism "women's liberation" anymore? We're not very "liberated". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be a woman stuck in an abusive marriage in the 50's. OTOH, if I had a decent living situation, I think I COULD endure a few demeaning TV commercials.

Hell, I might even get a sewing machine. I think we can be "equal" without being "identical".

[Bu🤠ns]

So I'll keep a watch out for assholes, and you can fucking KEEP feminism.

This line is in poor taste, and I don't fault Nigel for getting pissed. Do you actually have anything against feminism, the idea that females should be treated equally with males?

If not, then it's not feminism that you think we should fucking KEEP. Please be more precise, or you risk people taking you at your word.

Feminism is an ism. I don't hold ANY ism as sacred or holy.

Let's look at the actual effects, shall we?

Pros: It's easier to file rape, domestic abuse, sex discrimination, or sexual harassment. We can vote. And...uhhhh...can't call anything else to mind.

Cons: We're expected to take on traditional male roles IN ADDITION to our traditional female roles, which boils down to holding at least one job while maintaining a nice home and caring for kids. We're expected to be in several places at once, and if we let any one area slide in order to attend to something else, we're deemed "irresponsible" and "neglectful". We're expected to take off of work at the drop of a hat every time a teacher wants to discuss something. We tend to get fired, drug tested and investigated by child services from the time our first child is born until the last one hits 17.

Have you noticed how nobody calls feminism "women's liberation" anymore? We're not very "liberated". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be a woman stuck in an abusive marriage in the 50's. OTOH, if I had a decent living situation, I think I COULD endure a few demeaning TV commercials.

Hell, I might even get a sewing machine. I think we can be "equal" without being "identical".

[AFK]

So I'll keep a watch out for assholes, and you can fucking KEEP feminism.

This line is in poor taste, and I don't fault Nigel for getting pissed. Do you actually have anything against feminism, the idea that females should be treated equally with males?

If not, then it's not feminism that you think we should fucking KEEP. Please be more precise, or you risk people taking you at your word.

Feminism is an ism. I don't hold ANY ism as sacred or holy.

Let's look at the actual effects, shall we?

Pros: It's easier to file rape, domestic abuse, sex discrimination, or sexual harassment. We can vote. And...uhhhh...can't call anything else to mind.

Cons: We're expected to take on traditional male roles IN ADDITION to our traditional female roles, which boils down to holding at least one job while maintaining a nice home and caring for kids. We're expected to be in several places at once, and if we let any one area slide in order to attend to something else, we're deemed "irresponsible" and "neglectful". We're expected to take off of work at the drop of a hat every time a teacher wants to discuss something. We tend to get fired, drug tested and investigated by child services from the time our first child is born until the last one hits 17.

Have you noticed how nobody calls feminism "women's liberation" anymore? We're not very "liberated". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be a woman stuck in an abusive marriage in the 50's. OTOH, if I had a decent living situation, I think I COULD endure a few demeaning TV commercials.

Hell, I might even get a sewing machine. I think we can be "equal" without being "identical".

I know you don't like me and we disagree on quite a bit but this post is a home run.

[East Coast Hustle]

I love the line about being equal without being identical. I think that's something that alot of people get hung up on, and not just in the context of feminism. It's OK to recognize the basic differences between groups, whether they be cultural or biological. It's when people start thinking that those differences mean that one group is inherently superior to the other that problems arise.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I just noticed this thread. Damn Alty, talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Nigel is acting weird and fucked up to a lot of people right now. I'm concerned, but there's no excuses for this garbage Nigel is heaping on the dudes here.

I don't see Nigel's outrage as "garbage heaped on the dudes here". I think she's legitimately pissed.

I have a different point of view about dude's behavior here and I doubt I'm under as much stress as she is.


Stella, do you reject egalitarianism (interchangeable with "feminism" IMO) merely because it's an "ism" as well?

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Stella, maybe we ought to throw out racism as well, after all race relations still are fucked beyond belief.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Stella, maybe we ought to throw out racism as well, after all race relations still are fucked beyond belief.

Wouldn't a person who subscribes to racism be a racist?

As for egalitarianism - whose? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism
I'd prefer to have egalitarian views without the "ism".

[Epimetheus]

Stella, maybe we ought to throw out racism as well, after all race relations still are fucked beyond belief.

Wouldn't a person who subscribes to racism be a racist?

As for egalitarianism - whose? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism
I'd prefer to have egalitarian views without the "ism".

What are you imagining the "ism" adds? It's just a way to term an idea of set of ideas.
Egalitarianism IS egalitarian views.