Author Topic: The Frozen Nothing  (Read 3161 times)

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The Frozen Nothing
« on: November 23, 2004, 09:37:17 am »
We are outside the inside of the proverbial box, and inside the outside of the proverbial box. The danger of the trend of individuality is that it becomes a trend, and insomuch, is also a parody of itself. Like the initial "great snubbing", this is the prank that is played on those who come to learn of the prank and try to emulate it. It is my belief that the underlying principle of our order (yes) is individuality, and the internal trappings of our order (yes) the fnord. Set us free, and we will gladly leap from one bondage into the other... because the light hurts your eyes, you'll gladly remain in platos cave.

The lessons that I have learned from Eris are unique to me personally, and while I will share them with you, I may not necessarily share them with you. The lessons you have learned from Eris are unique to you, and while we may share them together, we might not necessarily share them together. We are still learning, you and I, we are not yet truly free... for it is my belief that freedom is entirely subjective.... freedom from what? Freedom from the nine to five office job, freedom from the human condition, freedom from fear, freedom from the law? To be free, there must be a counterpoint, something that you are truly free from, because absolute freedom would mean absolute power, absolute control, nothing outside the self would hold any sway over it (or its environment)...  while this is not necessarily impossible, you and I are probably still human beings who are bound by something outside the self. I've yet to meet anyone who was truly solipsist, to the point where they held absolute sway over all things, at least... I dont think I have.

My lesson is pretty simple. Hate, fear, pain, and all manner of negativity are things that exist. They are necessary, they are out there, and they can be overcome or even embraced. The ultimate decision of what my life is is mine alone, and I even have the choice of surrendering it to the random forces that exist in the universe, but in the end It is my strength of will that forces me to pursue the idealized version of myself that does exist. It is my intention to manifest that.

It amazes me that discordianism has painted such a happy-go-lucky face on Eris, who even in her more benign aspect, has always been harsh.. Remember that the Principia even encourages heresy agaisnt discordianism itself, and there is a reason for this, because if we were even bound by "our" own rules we'd be hypocrites. It is my belief the tone of the principia is a product of the time in which it was written, and the egos of the ones who wrote it, but that its still a valuable tool of learning. Like anything, though, one must beware of its trappings... the written word can rule the reader, and this can be just another form of slavery.

It doesnt matter to me if you're one of those neo-pagan types who believes in Eris in the literal sense, or if you're the type that sees her entirely as metaphor. Either way, a deity is a representation of a concept, mutable to a sense but immutable also. Eris will always be the same goddess that snubbed, the same who walked the fields of troy prolonging the lives of wounded and agonizing soldiers, but she also represents the drive to become better than our fellow man, to be superior, and to overcome. The strife we suffer today is the catalyst that brings change to our lives, or rather, causes us to effect change upon ourselves. She is also that. She is also everything the principia paints her as. I myself do not believe in anything literally, it is all metaphor, but it doesnt really matter. Even if Eris is merely the inner personifcation of a concept that is entirely alien to human thought, she's still a good teacher.

Our pain, our suffering, our hatred, our filth. All of these things exist. We are free to do with them whatever we want, or to put them down and walk away from them.

We are free to do whatever we want with, and to, this world... as well. One discordian will try to tear all the walls down, and another will be building that wall at the other end... but either way, thats a personal decision.

I'm rambling, and have been, because I'm hyper off of caffiene and have a really bad headache, and smell like the donut stop. I dont care, its what I wanted to do, so fuck you if you've got a problem with that.

 "That which does not kill you, makes you stronger."

"... and in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and took from him the riddle of steel."

"Wolfman has nards."

gnimbley

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2004, 02:11:59 pm »
::dances on the edge of chaos while the bunnies play tag::

Malaul

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2004, 02:56:51 pm »
::dances with Grimbley whiel aplauding the writer::
Coito ergo sum
O! Plus! Perge! Aio! Hui! Hem!
"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named Bush, Dick, and Colon.  --Comedian Chris Rock

Horab Fibslager

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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2004, 05:52:38 pm »
r0x0r!
Hell is other people.

Bella

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2004, 07:26:16 pm »
Most excellent.
Thank you for this.
just like in a dream
you'll open your mouth to scream
and you won't make a sound

you can't believe your eyes
you can't believe your ears
you can't believe your friends
you can't believe you're here

East Coast Hustle

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2004, 07:41:22 pm »
damn...that's the good stuff, there....

 8)
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Ben

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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2004, 10:35:38 pm »
Nothing is not.  Everything is fermented.

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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2004, 10:37:20 pm »
three cheers for everything being fermented!!!

 8)
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Nikoli Volkoff

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2004, 07:13:29 pm »
yeah what he said


Good piece Z3
The Hidden stone ripens fast, then laid bare like a turnip can easily be cut out at last but even then the danger isn't past. That man lives best who's fain to live half mad, half sane. -Flemish Poet Jan Van Stijevoort, 1524.
___________
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.
___________


Bob the Mediocre

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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2004, 03:31:47 am »
Goes off to search for fermented beverages while applauding z3
"we are building a religion
we are making a brand
we're the only ones to turn to when your castles turn to sand
take a bite of this apple
mister corporate events
take a walk through the jungle
of cardboard shanties and tents
some people drink pepsi
some people drink coke
the wacky morning dj says democracy's a joke
he says now do you believe in the one big song
he is now accepting callers who would like to sing along"


I AM A COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKING IDIOT!

Irreverend Hugh, KSC

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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2004, 05:03:18 pm »
Quote from: Z¬?

We are outside the inside of the proverbial box, and inside the outside of the proverbial box. The danger of the trend of individuality is that it becomes a trend, and insomuch, is also a parody of itself. Like the initial "great snubbing", this is the prank that is played on those who come to learn of the prank and try to emulate it. It is my belief that the underlying principle of our order (yes) is individuality, and the internal trappings of our order (yes) the fnord. Set us free, and we will gladly leap from one bondage into the other... because the light hurts your eyes, you'll gladly remain in platos cave.


Damned true about that proverbial box.

Actually that 'internal trappings of order' is how I have come to understand fnord. Or at least the way fnords impact us, whether self-designed from our denial mechanisms or inculcated from others' systems of thought. Despite years of making this 'truth' plain to people, others will still assume fnords are some 'other' thing standing outside of one's mentations. Freedom is a tricky issue. Perhaps it is another fnord. But we can intuit something akin to free will because we sit and think about all of this. I do agree with your assertion though, we tend to leap from one bondage to another. I think it's due to comfort levels or zones or whatever. We tend to believe that comfort equates to freedom and thus cannot find functional ways to freedom. As long as it remains just an abstract idea, we are fucked in our seeking. But should that seeking be left behind? Perhaps somebody will inadvertently find their way. It's a big question mark. (Sort of what Crowley was getting at. He sort of laughed at the whole project, including his own participation and contribution to it. Too bad none of his 'followers' today can't get the joke.)

Quote
The lessons that I have learned from Eris are unique to me personally, and while I will share them with you, I may not necessarily share them with you. The lessons you have learned from Eris are unique to you, and while we may share them together, we might not necessarily share them together. We are still learning, you and I, we are not yet truly free... for it is my belief that freedom is entirely subjective.... freedom from what? Freedom from the nine to five office job, freedom from the human condition, freedom from fear, freedom from the law? To be free, there must be a counterpoint, something that you are truly free from, because absolute freedom would mean absolute power, absolute control, nothing outside the self would hold any sway over it (or its environment)... while this is not necessarily impossible, you and I are probably still human beings who are bound by something outside the self. I've yet to meet anyone who was truly solipsist, to the point where they held absolute sway over all things, at least... I dont think I have.


You have discovered the 'truth' about sharing insights. And your idea of freedom is also similar to mine. I keep it simple. For me freedom is concrete. How many things can I say no to? How many things can I do for myself that will not be interfered with by someone or some system? What options do I have? Freedom is about finding those options, no matter how limited we appear to be at the time. That's why we Celtic people use our own potent system of 'triplisms' represented by our triple spirals and other neato art conventions. It brings us to an understanding that there are always options if we have the strength, mind, and courage to see this. Either/Or becomes a Maybe/Either/Or and Otherwise. It sounds like semantical masturbation, but sicne so much of our limitations are mental, such diddling may help. (Though it can also harm as much as it helps in some people's minds.) My degree of non-freedom is simply how limited are my options.

Quote
My lesson is pretty simple. Hate, fear, pain, and all manner of negativity are things that exist. They are necessary, they are out there, and they can be overcome or even embraced. The ultimate decision of what my life is is mine alone, and I even have the choice of surrendering it to the random forces that exist in the universe, but in the end It is my strength of will that forces me to pursue the idealized version of myself that does exist. It is my intention to manifest that.


Hate, fear, and pain are going to happen regardless of what types of beings we think we should be. There are good reasons for the initial inspiration to feel these ways...some of them will save our lives, if we pay attention to them. Many occult systems use hate, fear, and pain as integral components that must be embraced by practitioners to gain an awareness of who and what we really are. To get anywhere, we have to really see where we are now. That means embracing all of it. Too many fluffy people reject this. I even say it is necessary to embrace and accept the tendency to aggression (not for acting it out, though that may be necessary in some situations) because denying or propensity to aggression only causes the shadow and 'yucky' parts of ourselves to seek fulfillment in ways we eventually may have no control over. Peter Carroll said "Deny aggression only to stare eventually at the bloody knife in your shaking hand."

For me, the manifestation and knowledge of my True Will is the most important work I can achieve in this life. But that's me. True Will is not willpower, virility, or stubborn solipsism. It is what happens when you finally discover that there are inexplicable reasons for the pattern of your life and then begin to manifest your own designs. That's about all I know at this stage in the game. Perhaps in a few more years, I'll understand it better. (All I could do now beyond this attempt to explain it would be to quote or reference writings of others who have gone further, or who have at least pretended well to do so.)

Quote
It amazes me that discordianism has painted such a happy-go-lucky face on Eris, who even in her more benign aspect, has always been harsh.. Remember that the Principia even encourages heresy agaisnt discordianism itself, and there is a reason for this, because if we were even bound by "our" own rules we'd be hypocrites. It is my belief the tone of the principia is a product of the time in which it was written, and the egos of the ones who wrote it, but that its still a valuable tool of learning. Like anything, though, one must beware of its trappings... the written word can rule the reader, and this can be just another form of slavery.


The Breton Celts have a saying "Ar paper a zo reizh" (Paper is docile). The written word, by its very existence is a creation of another mind. Of course we should not merely accept it. There are uses in learning from it, like any other creation. But nowhere can words portray 'truths' accurately. Some would say that they can't even come close and that it is therefore absurd to even try. There was a whole movement in literature which adhered to this idea.

As for Eris, many can't believe that She did/does all that other 'malignant' shit that She gets blamed for. Being a deity, She probably doesn't do half of all the stuff blamed on Her. But that doesn't mean She doesn't do some of it. The Principia Discordia can be funny and insightful, but only when it isn't taken seriously. Hah. Therein is the whole tone for Discordianism to work successfully on the pineal glands of those who believe in it. Non-seriousness. That doesn't mean have a 'happy-go-lucky' face on everything. Hell, I don't. In fact, my laughter is a psychic defensive and offensive weapon. I can laugh in the midst of my darkest hours. That is because I take things as they come. The moods and all that. How I deal with it is my choice. And taking it all light heartedly, doesn't mean painting a pretty face on it. What it does mean is that we own it and not let it drag us down against our will. It also means to let go of anything onces its time is up. Hell, don't even hold on in the first place.

Quote
It doesnt matter to me if you're one of those neo-pagan types who believes in Eris in the literal sense, or if you're the type that sees her entirely as metaphor. Either way, a deity is a representation of a concept, mutable to a sense but immutable also. Eris will always be the same goddess that snubbed, the same who walked the fields of troy prolonging the lives of wounded and agonizing soldiers, but she also represents the drive to become better than our fellow man, to be superior, and to overcome. The strife we suffer today is the catalyst that brings change to our lives, or rather, causes us to effect change upon ourselves. She is also that. She is also everything the principia paints her as. I myself do not believe in anything literally, it is all metaphor, but it doesnt really matter. Even if Eris is merely the inner personifcation of a concept that is entirely alien to human thought, she's still a good teacher.


I am neo-Pagan. So I do see Eris as a literally existing being in Her own right. But that's me. And my meta-programming experiments have led me to accept various useful approaches to Her: from theism to agnosticism to atheism to henotheism to pantheism to polytheism to non-theism. All of these have been cherished and supported at one time or another by me and to limit myself to any one of them would be perceived by me as a shrinkage of spirit.

I agree with your idea on strife. Most people feel that spiritual or wisdom practices should be about consolation. But that is false. Such things work successfully when they accept existential confrontation. Many forms of Buddhism are like that. And that's how I feel Discordianism works best. I mean come on, Eris, the Goddess of Discordianism, means "strife" in Classical Greek.

Eris is a grand teacher, no matter how She is approached.

Quote
Our pain, our suffering, our hatred, our filth. All of these things exist. We are free to do with them whatever we want, or to put them down and walk away from them.


Pretty much. Or we can embrace them, take their energies and inspirations, transmute them, and make them into something else entirely. Like the Tantric adepts of old Tibet or Pala.

Quote
We are free to do whatever we want with, and to, this world... as well. One discordian will try to tear all the walls down, and another will be building that wall at the other end... but either way, thats a personal decision.

I'm rambling, and have been, because I'm hyper off of caffiene and have a really bad headache, and smell like the donut stop. I dont care, its what I wanted to do, so fuck you if you've got a problem with that.

 
I often find myself being the type of Discordian who both tears down and builds up that wall. It depends on what the person next to me believes should be done. I will tend to provide a confrontation to their idea, just to show how it is only an idea. All ideas are false at some point.

Heh. It's about time you spouted. Keep it up. I have missed this sort of thing around here. Maybe it's that I am getting older. Or maybe it's that I have still yet to get used to the idea that people can be Discordians on the internet and yet not be so in the real world, whatever that is. I play all the silly online games here because I get shut in sometimes. But my real calling is the damned antics on the street and the jakes and a few counterevangelism projects. and writing. I tend to agree with Roger on a lot of what goes on here, but that doesn't mean I won't contribute. It is good to see that posts of real thought can still exist here. At least you know yourself. And it feels good to read words written from that perspective. Thank you.

By Eris, I think you've got it! Happy holiday, if you're into that, for what it's worth.

"T?©ann muid ag marca??ocht ar na sneachta?? ag treo.
An fuacht i bhur bhfuil.
T?° muid beo in?°r n-oighri??." (-Aodh Tr??bh??s)

"We seek barefooted after the footsteps of the dead by night."(-Uz Jsme Doma)

"We push and pull, but everywhere is thin ice." (-Uz Jsme Doma)

(Note: Uz Jsme Doma is a band you should check out. They sing in Czech but provide translations to their lyrics to American audiences. They broke up two years ago when the singer died of cancer. They were weird and imaginative...sort of like metal/punk/ska but really hard to categorize. The bass was often a tuba, and they mixed horns with distorted crunchy guitars to good effect.  Perhaps you may find them by web-searching. Their record company has the same name as an ill named Czech car company "?°koda" /shkohdah/ which means 'alas!'. So searching by record label may provide you with useless info on Czech cars.)
"Time for the tin-foil hats, girls and boys!"

Cain

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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2004, 05:29:15 pm »
Quote from: horab.one
r0x0r!


teh b0xz0r!

DJRubberducky

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Re: The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2004, 03:51:14 pm »
Quote from: Z¬?
We are outside the inside of the proverbial box, and inside the outside of the proverbial box. The danger of the trend of individuality is that it becomes a trend, and insomuch, is also a parody of itself. Like the initial "great snubbing", this is the prank that is played on those who come to learn of the prank and try to emulate it. It is my belief that the underlying principle of our order (yes) is individuality, and the internal trappings of our order (yes) the fnord. Set us free, and we will gladly leap from one bondage into the other... because the light hurts your eyes, you'll gladly remain in platos cave.


I used to occasionally remark on how this phenomenon manifested in the music industry.  You'll be hard-pressed to find a rock musician, or even a rock music fan, who doesn't think Jimi Hendrix was the fuckin' BOMB, man!  And nigh-inevitably what they like about him is how innovative his sound was.  But what have so many people done since then?  Taken that innovative sound and copied it.  They've totally missed the fuckin' point!  It's like Jimi exploded through the brick-and-iron cage that music had built around itself, and people either remained inside the cage blinking at the huge hole in the wall, or took the rubble and used it to build an entirely new and different cage around themselves, believing themselves better off than those in the old cage.  (I'm sure there's plenty of fodder for rants against the business aspect of show business, but I'm not qualified to make them.)

When I'm feeling particularly snarky, I point out the similar manifestation in Christianity.  Jesus may have been destined to die on a cross for humanity because it was what his dad wanted, but the reason he got hauled away to such a fate was that he was running around undermining the authority of the existing system.  And now that spiritual rebellion has *become* the existing system that brooks no opposition.
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DJ's post is sort of like those pills you drop into a glass of water, and they expand into a dinosaur, or something.

Black sheep are still sheep.

Mighty Cthulu of R'yleh

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2004, 07:47:46 am »
Does it take MUCH longer to bake Frozen Nothing compared to Thawed Nothing?
I's alarm clock is set. Wear pants!

Do not fear the inevitable!

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The Frozen Nothing
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2004, 03:10:43 pm »
Usually not, if you go ahead and pop the Frozen Nothing into the oven while it's pre-heating.
- DJRubberducky
Quote from: LMNO
DJ's post is sort of like those pills you drop into a glass of water, and they expand into a dinosaur, or something.

Black sheep are still sheep.