Shooting at CT Elementary School. WTF AMERICA?!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In other words, the question isn't "how can I be an individual and not part of the pack", but "How can I be an individual while remaining part of the pack."

And THAT is the disconnect.  Right wingers want to be lone wolves, and left wingers want to collectivize.  Both answers, by themselves, are wrong.

Instead, the goal should be to create a society in which the rights of the individual are best served by cooperation within the group.

A bunch of guys in wigs proposed something similar (though less inclusive) a couple of hundred years ago, but nobody took them seriously.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In other words, the question isn't "how can I be an individual and not part of the pack", but "How can I be an individual while remaining part of the pack."

I'd go a step deeper than that. "I am an individual whose identity is defined primarily in terms of my relationship to my pack."

If you lose that relationship, whether by choice or by alienation, you lose your connection to society at large, and you also lose your connection to and relationship with social norms.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Absolutely... it relates to Durkheim and his studies on suicide. Anomie is a terrible, powerful driver.

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

And there you have it.  THE STATED GOAL OF THE AMERICAN.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In other words, the question isn't "how can I be an individual and not part of the pack", but "How can I be an individual while remaining part of the pack."

I'd go a step deeper than that. "I am an individual whose identity is defined primarily in terms of my relationship to my pack."

If you lose that relationship, whether by choice or by alienation, you lose your connection to society at large, and you also lose your connection to and relationship with social norms.

Funny thing is, you go too far the other way (making the group too large and too stifling), same thing happens (ie, behavioral sink). 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Absolutely... it relates to Durkheim and his studies on suicide. Anomie is a terrible, powerful driver.

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

And there you have it.  THE STATED GOAL OF THE AMERICAN.

It might as well be our national anthem.

Which is interesting, simply because isolation is the single most psychologically damaging environmental factor for the human psyche; worse than stress or physical and sexual abuse. Well, saying that it's worse than stress is incorrect: Other than catastrophic trauma, isolation is the single greatest psychological stressor known to our species.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

USA:  I'm going to buy a gun to protect my rights.

Canada:  I'm going to help protect my neighbor's rights, and he'll help protect mine.

England:  *thump thump thump* (the Met protecting someone's rights).

Norway:  Why would you have to protect someone's rights?   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In other words, the question isn't "how can I be an individual and not part of the pack", but "How can I be an individual while remaining part of the pack."

I'd go a step deeper than that. "I am an individual whose identity is defined primarily in terms of my relationship to my pack."

If you lose that relationship, whether by choice or by alienation, you lose your connection to society at large, and you also lose your connection to and relationship with social norms.

Funny thing is, you go too far the other way (making the group too large and too stifling), same thing happens (ie, behavioral sink).

If the group is too large, it may result in disconnect, alienation, and anomie. In order for people to have their social needs met, they need a group that is small enough that they have a sense of connectedness and inclusion.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It might as well be our national anthem.

Which is interesting, simply because isolation is the single most psychologically damaging environmental factor for the human psyche; worse than physical and sexual abuse. Well, saying that it's worse than stress is incorrect: Other than catastrophic trauma, isolation is the single greatest psychological stressor known to our species.

And we have reached the bottom of the rabbit hole, folks.

We have been sold - indeed, sold ourselves - on the idea of harming ourselves in the worst possible manner, for our own "good".

Always
Be
Closing

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It might as well be our national anthem.

Which is interesting, simply because isolation is the single most psychologically damaging environmental factor for the human psyche; worse than physical and sexual abuse. Well, saying that it's worse than stress is incorrect: Other than catastrophic trauma, isolation is the single greatest psychological stressor known to our species.

And we have reached the bottom of the rabbit hole, folks.

We have been sold - indeed, sold ourselves - on the idea of harming ourselves in the worst possible manner, for our own "good".

Always
Be
Closing

BAM.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It might as well be our national anthem.

Which is interesting, simply because isolation is the single most psychologically damaging environmental factor for the human psyche; worse than physical and sexual abuse. Well, saying that it's worse than stress is incorrect: Other than catastrophic trauma, isolation is the single greatest psychological stressor known to our species.

And we have reached the bottom of the rabbit hole, folks.

We have been sold - indeed, sold ourselves - on the idea of harming ourselves in the worst possible manner, for our own "good".

Always
Be
Closing

BAM.

Yep.  I think we've found one of the main motive forces of The Machine™, AND what separates The Machine™ from a healthy society.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Now it looks OBVIOUS.   

And I bet it's gonna piss some people off.

[Don Coyote]

The Machine^TM is not inevitable?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Now it looks OBVIOUS.   

And I bet it's gonna piss some people off.

GOOD.

[Cain]

I dunno, I always kinda considered that to be the case.

I'm not pissed off - I'm relieved that I'm not the only one who sees it, and that other people think it's also a fairly obvious concept.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I dunno, I always kinda considered that to be the case.

I'm not pissed off - I'm relieved that I'm not the only one who sees it, and that other people think it's also a fairly obvious concept.

It's obvious once you walk it though, anyway.