WARNING: CONTAINS FEMINISM

[Bu🤠ns]

This article is old, but I'd never read it before and it's really moving.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html

The carefully selected verses found in the Holy Scriptures to justify the superiority of men owe more to time and place - and the determination of male leaders to hold onto their influence - than eternal truths. Similar biblical excerpts could be found to support the approval of slavery and the timid acquiescence to oppressive rulers.

I am also familiar with vivid descriptions in the same Scriptures in which women are revered as pre-eminent leaders. During the years of the early Christian church women served as deacons, priests, bishops, apostles, teachers and prophets. It wasn't until the fourth century that dominant Christian leaders, all men, twisted and distorted Holy Scriptures to perpetuate their ascendant positions within the religious hierarchy.

The truth is that male religious leaders have had - and still have - an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. This is in clear violation not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions - all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God. It is time we had the courage to challenge these views.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html#ixzz2JHuHHBfm

What is the fear that causes it?  Is it some sort of obsessive power hold on directing reproduction?  I mean the article itself says that religious leaders overwhelming choose subjugation.   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, the Apocrypha deals pretty extensively with the role of women in society, and the people debating it come to the conclusion that women should have equality in men in all social rights and responsibilities.

The Catholic church isn't a big fan of the Apocrypha, and for some reason it does not appear in their bible, though it appears in almost every other major sect's bibles.  The KJV, for example, includes it.

Wow, I didn't know that. At all.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, the Apocrypha deals pretty extensively with the role of women in society, and the people debating it come to the conclusion that women should have equality in men in all social rights and responsibilities.

The Catholic church isn't a big fan of the Apocrypha, and for some reason it does not appear in their bible, though it appears in almost every other major sect's bibles.  The KJV, for example, includes it.

Wow, I didn't know that. At all.

Not sure without having the book handy, but I think it's in this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiasticus

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Also, the Apocrypha deals pretty extensively with the role of women in society, and the people debating it come to the conclusion that women should have equality in men in all social rights and responsibilities.

The Catholic church isn't a big fan of the Apocrypha, and for some reason it does not appear in their bible, though it appears in almost every other major sect's bibles.  The KJV, for example, includes it.

Wow, I didn't know that. At all.

Not sure without having the book handy, but I think it's in this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiasticus

That one is called Sirach in the Catholic edition.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

These are the Apocrypha that the Catholic lacks, but so does the KJV:

In addition to those, the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches recognize the following:[citation needed]
3 Maccabees
1 Esdras
Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151
Russian and Georgian Orthodox Churches include:[citation needed]
2 Esdras i.e., Latin Esdras in the Russian and Georgian Bibles
There is also 4 Maccabees which is only accepted as canonical in the Georgian Church, but was included by St. Jerome in an appendix to the Vulgate, and is an appendix to the Greek Orthodox Bible, and it is therefore sometimes included in collections of the Apocrypha.[citation needed]
The Syriac Orthodox tradition includes:[citation needed]
Psalms 151–155
The Apocalypse of Baruch
The Letter of Baruch
The Ethiopian Biblical canon includes:[citation needed]
Jubilees
Enoch
1–3 Meqabyan

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Nope.  NOT Ecclesiasticus.

Gonna have to go look the old-fashioned way.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This article is old, but I'd never read it before and it's really moving.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html

The carefully selected verses found in the Holy Scriptures to justify the superiority of men owe more to time and place - and the determination of male leaders to hold onto their influence - than eternal truths. Similar biblical excerpts could be found to support the approval of slavery and the timid acquiescence to oppressive rulers.

I am also familiar with vivid descriptions in the same Scriptures in which women are revered as pre-eminent leaders. During the years of the early Christian church women served as deacons, priests, bishops, apostles, teachers and prophets. It wasn't until the fourth century that dominant Christian leaders, all men, twisted and distorted Holy Scriptures to perpetuate their ascendant positions within the religious hierarchy.

The truth is that male religious leaders have had - and still have - an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. This is in clear violation not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions - all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God. It is time we had the courage to challenge these views.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html#ixzz2JHuHHBfm

What is the fear that causes it?  Is it some sort of obsessive power hold on directing reproduction?  I mean the article itself says that religious leaders overwhelming choose subjugation.

It stems from greed, IMO, because patriarchy emerged at the same time and in the same places as land ownership. The only way  to make sure that shit stays in the family is to A: do the matrilinear thing (in which case the only way for men to amass stuff is to control women) or B: control reproduction, which requires controlling uteruses,which in turn requires controlling women.

[Trivial]

Old testament apocrypha is in the Catholic.  KJV has it and it's labeled as such.  Some Catholic bibles call it deuterocanonical texts - depends on what flavor Catholic (east, west, coptic).

Grew up catholic, got better, then got random chick tracts given to me saying said books is undermining the truthiness of the bible or something.  Yet he has a hard on for the KJV despite it having it.

Catholics are weird about women in church.  The priest was shot in my hometown because some guy claiming to be elijah didn't want women reading the bible, yet the pope then said they could.  New pope is trying to shame U.S. nuns because they aren't focused on the gays and think birth control is nifty. 

It's all about control and numbers really.  The ancient societies where women had more power have less children, even before good methods of birth control.  Sort of holds true today.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

More than sort of... there's a very clear correlation between education of women and lower birth rates. Dramatically lower.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Kind of makes me wonder what the Catholic church's reaction is going to be as stem cell technologies expand our medical treatments into the life-extension arena. For that matter, that will be a game-changer in a lot of areas.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Old testament apocrypha is in the Catholic.  KJV has it and it's labeled as such.  Some Catholic bibles call it deuterocanonical texts - depends on what flavor Catholic (east, west, coptic).

Yep.  I stand corrected.  Still gonna try to find that section I was talking about.

Grew up catholic, got better, then got random chick tracts given to me saying said books is undermining the truthiness of the bible or something.  Yet he has a hard on for the KJV despite it having it.

Catholics are weird about women in church.  The priest was shot in my hometown because some guy claiming to be elijah didn't want women reading the bible, yet the pope then said they could.  New pope is trying to shame U.S. nuns because they aren't focused on the gays and think birth control is nifty. 

It's all about control and numbers really.  The ancient societies where women had more power have less children, even before good methods of birth control.  Sort of holds true today.

I like this new person.  She seems to be a people.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Old testament apocrypha is in the Catholic.  KJV has it and it's labeled as such.  Some Catholic bibles call it deuterocanonical texts - depends on what flavor Catholic (east, west, coptic).

Yep.  I stand corrected.  Still gonna try to find that section I was talking about.

Grew up catholic, got better, then got random chick tracts given to me saying said books is undermining the truthiness of the bible or something.  Yet he has a hard on for the KJV despite it having it.

Catholics are weird about women in church.  The priest was shot in my hometown because some guy claiming to be elijah didn't want women reading the bible, yet the pope then said they could.  New pope is trying to shame U.S. nuns because they aren't focused on the gays and think birth control is nifty. 

It's all about control and numbers really.  The ancient societies where women had more power have less children, even before good methods of birth control.  Sort of holds true today.

I like this new person.  She seems to be a people.

She does! It's unexpectedly refreshing.

[Ben Shapiro]

I also grew up Catholic, and noticed Revelations isn't all fire and brimstone like the KJV people have raping hard on for. I'm looking into reading early translations of the Roman Bible. I also want to compare the Eastern Orthodox versions though to the Romans one. I read maybe 1/3 of a book that translated and reviewed the Gospel of Judas. I noticed that Judas was clearly a whipped friend, or Jesus was this smug asshole. I might listen to lectures about that gospel. But if anyone has any links, or historical translations from the Roman church that are early editions that would be great.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I also grew up Catholic, and noticed Revelations isn't all fire and brimstone like the KJV people have raping hard on for. I'm looking into reading early translations of the Roman Bible. I also want to compare the Eastern Orthodox versions though to the Romans one. I read maybe 1/3 of a book that translated and reviewed the Gospel of Judas. I noticed that Judas was clearly a whipped friend, or Jesus was this smug asshole. I might listen to lectures about that gospel. But if anyone has any links, or historical translations from the Roman church that are early editions that would be great.

I took the Gospel of Judas as Jesus being unable to explain the joke.

[Ben Shapiro]

So Jesus was Dane Cook?