Tennessee getting ready to throw poor students under the bus.

[The Johnny]

There's this tendency in human psychological trends, that the more money you make per year, the more entitled you feel about it, something about realizing deep down that all that money you are making comes from pure luck and circumstance rather than hard work or a useful ability/service to others, so you create this fantasy representation on how smart, sacrificial, useful and hard working you are compared to all the "fucking lazy, bottom feeder slobs" that make any amount less than yourself.

But Roger can explain to you tomorrow about entitlement.

[The Johnny]

Dude, working as a measure of a person's worth is so ingrained in our society (and also being poor sucks and it's not like welfare is paying anyone the big bucks) that I doubt there are many people who are gaming the system.

If not outright "gaming", I'm willing to definitely state there are those who get WAAAY more than is really...I guess, fair?

For instance, I spend about $75 monthly on groceries (for myself) and essentially eat prepackaged shit all day every day because its what I afford.

In the same instance, a friend of mine recieves $200 in food stamps monthly for himself, and has his fridge decked out with steak and fancy cakes and all sorts of other top-shelf shit I can't afford.

I guess I can follow you in blaming my employer for not paying me enough, but its this sort of thing that gets me pissed on the whole welfare issue everytime. Essentially, I see myself working hard to eat shit, while my buddy gets to eat like a king for nothing...

Perhaps you'd be better off on social security? Why not quit your job if its so much better?

[Banned User 1]

Principally, because I would likely become suicidally bored without work.

[Banned User 1]

There's this tendency in human psychological trends, that the more money you make per year, the more entitled you feel about it, something about realizing deep down that all that money you are making comes from pure luck and circumstance rather than hard work or a useful ability/service to others, so you create this fantasy representation on how smart, sacrificial, useful and hard working you are compared to all the "fucking lazy, bottom feeder slobs" that make any amount less than yourself.

But Roger can explain to you tomorrow about entitlement.

If this is how entitlement is defined here, then I can fully see why roger was saying that I'm digging in...

...because there really isn't enough LSD on this entire planet to be able to recondition me to believe that effort doesn't have some sort of meaningful outcome.

Call me intellectually flawed, call me an incorrigible primate, call me a dumb rand-tard or even call me outright evil, but in the end, my own experience tells me that my own efforts matter in addition to luck and circumstance[\i].

If I'm reading this definition of "entitlement" correctly as meaning "nothing you do effects your outcome", then I can honestly say that there isn't really anything more about welfare I can take from this thread if it relies on this concept of entitlement.

[The Johnny]

Im not putting words on his mouth; anyhow, you kind of missed my point, in which i was speaking of a self-serving bias.

I don't really know if im not conveying myself clearly (this not my native tongue after all) or if you deliberately chose to understand something else out of convenience, either way its pretty late so im gonna go.

[Bruno]

VZ: I'm just amused that you have such disdain for people that you, making $9.50/hr and no health insurance, are just one bad day away from joining.

LULZ! LULZ, I say!

How much actual income tax did you even pay last year? Maybe $500?

You underestimate me for sure. Although I alone make 9.50, total household income for myself, my wife and our room mate is roughly 3-3.5 times my own income.

Bluntly stated, I'm moreso a bad day away from having to give up the internet and cable than I am a bad day away from destitution.


Also, at a VERY rough estimate, I payed about 2500 in federal taxes last year...


Anyway, I hold no disdain for the poor. I hold disdain for those who don't try to stop being poor. For instance, Nigel mentioned that she is receiving aid. She also mentioned that she's attending classes of some sort in order to improve herself. There is no hatred in me over this use of public funds. My reasoning being that the recipient isnt simply "gaming the system", but rather is using public funds to recover from a disasterous situation.


Now then, if the recipient of aid were in their predicament due to voluntary actions, (I.e. improper "family planning", drug use) then of course I would feel no sympathy, as the situation could have been avoided had the recipient made better choices.

Are you including SS and Medicare in that figure? If not, you should let someone else do your taxes.

[Banned User 1]

VZ: I'm just amused that you have such disdain for people that you, making $9.50/hr and no health insurance, are just one bad day away from joining.

LULZ! LULZ, I say!

How much actual income tax did you even pay last year? Maybe $500?

You underestimate me for sure. Although I alone make 9.50, total household income for myself, my wife and our room mate is roughly 3-3.5 times my own income.

Bluntly stated, I'm moreso a bad day away from having to give up the internet and cable than I am a bad day away from destitution.


Also, at a VERY rough estimate, I payed about 2500 in federal taxes last year...


Anyway, I hold no disdain for the poor. I hold disdain for those who don't try to stop being poor. For instance, Nigel mentioned that she is receiving aid. She also mentioned that she's attending classes of some sort in order to improve herself. There is no hatred in me over this use of public funds. My reasoning being that the recipient isnt simply "gaming the system", but rather is using public funds to recover from a disasterous situation.


Now then, if the recipient of aid were in their predicament due to voluntary actions, (I.e. improper "family planning", drug use) then of course I would feel no sympathy, as the situation could have been avoided had the recipient made better choices.

Are you including SS and Medicare in that figure? If not, you should let someone else do your taxes.

As stated, that was an extremely rough estimate. I don't exactly have my w2 in front of me, so I ghetto rigged a figure that approximates total taxes payed.

The actual math behind that number was:

(9.50*40*52)/10

And then rounded up to 2500 to account for municipal tax.

Anyway, if johnny defined entitlement correctly, then no further argument will really be able to convince me of anything if it relies on that definition. Ill wait for roger to pitch his 2 cents on it out of respect for the man, but if johnny nailed down his point, then the view this board takes on entitlement is too batshit insane for me to accept...


...and thats with or without ad hominem attacks

[navkat]

VZ: I'm just amused that you have such disdain for people that you, making $9.50/hr and no health insurance, are just one bad day away from joining.

LULZ! LULZ, I say!

How much actual income tax did you even pay last year? Maybe $500?

He's already there, my friend. That's the magic of the neo-con mystique and (not to Arken the thread) it employs the same basic, uncomplicated tactics that makes Orwell brilliant.

I'm always surprised by how many people read 1984 and missed THE most important message in the whole fucking thing: "Big Brother" isn't an omnipresent, separate watchful government agent. Big Brother is all of us. The government doesn't need to watch, they've got us persecuting each other.

And in fact, we do a better job of it. In the absence of resources, we're crueler, less-tolerant and less likely to show any mercy. Our standards for persecuting the weak become more depraved and we become more comfortable with that becoming the norm the more desperate we get.

BIP, indeed.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And also it amuses me that you're mad at poor people instead of the corporations that are responsible for the fact that you're only making $9.50 an hour.
What you should be doing instead of being racist and classist is going after the entities responsible for the situation.

Jeezus dude, that's going a bit far don't you think? I mean, sure, rib the kid for being young or whatever but calling him a racist is a bit much I think.

If a white person uses the words "white flighting" to describe an action they have or may feel they have to take in order to "defend" their property, there's 169% chance they're a racist, even if they don't, strictly speaking, realize it.

I'll be brutally honest in saying that I was attacked by a group of 7 or so african americans and this resulted in my being injured so bad that I wasn't able to complete college, or even walk for about a year. So, yes, due to some unresolved PTSD, I do hold some subconscious racism.

I'd like to resolve those issues, though...it's hard to find materials related to deconditioning racist tendancies, though, since the whole notion of the "white male racist" is so criminalised...

What does that even mean?
Also, go read the BIP.

The BIP isn't helpful to me on the issue...tbh, all I ever take away from the BIP when I read it can be summed up in 2 or 3 pages in the principia; the ones related to psycho-metaphysics....

anyway...

Try googling something like "curing racism" or "racism counseling" or any number of queries that essentially relate to "I'm racist and don't want to be anymore"...90% of your top articles relate to essentially calling white males who hold racist views tiny-dicked hicks or self-loathing bastards. They're also more typically editorials moreso than self help...

Huh...while writing this post, I did note something interesting though...

In the video "how to operate your brain", Tim Leary talks about how "those who control your eyeballs, control your brain"...I interpret this as meaing "the more shit you read/watch, the more shit you think, and thus shit becomes truth."

I've been reading/watching bad shit for some time...perhaps me coming to PD is beneficial in that I'm replacing bad shit, with shit that conflicts with the shit I hold true. Mabey if I linger long enough, I can become reconditioned simply by removing my usual shit from my viewing habits...

Sorry for the tl;dr rant

Why would you need to google that shit? Any decent therapist with PTSD skills and experience should be able to work with you on that. Google isn't going to do fuck-all for you.

No money to seek professional help...too poor to afford healthcare, too "rich" to have someone else afford it for me

Oh, please. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You clearly haven't really tried, since there are therapists who do sliding scale and programs for crime victims, etc.

If *I* could afford therapy raising three kids on $16k/year with no insurance, you can too. Cut back on beer or cigarettes for a week, or whatever stupid little indulgences you allow yourself. Get a roommate. I have no fucking pity for you, whiny single white boy with no responsibilities.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, you know what? I used to pay over $35,000/year in taxes and I never begrudged a penny that went so that people who need it more than you could have a fucking chance in life, so just shut your stupid, whiny, entitled bitch mouth. Go back to school and fight the system that makes it so fucking hard for little people to get ahead or even survive.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

VZ: I'm just amused that you have such disdain for people that you, making $9.50/hr and no health insurance, are just one bad day away from joining.

LULZ! LULZ, I say!

How much actual income tax did you even pay last year? Maybe $500?

You underestimate me for sure. Although I alone make 9.50, total household income for myself, my wife and our room mate is roughly 3-3.5 times my own income.

Bluntly stated, I'm moreso a bad day away from having to give up the internet and cable than I am a bad day away from destitution.


Also, at a VERY rough estimate, I payed about 2500 in federal taxes last year...


Anyway, I hold no disdain for the poor. I hold disdain for those who don't try to stop being poor. For instance, Nigel mentioned that she is receiving aid. She also mentioned that she's attending classes of some sort in order to improve herself. There is no hatred in me over this use of public funds. My reasoning being that the recipient isnt simply "gaming the system", but rather is using public funds to recover from a disasterous situation.


Now then, if the recipient of aid were in their predicament due to voluntary actions, (I.e. improper "family planning", drug use) then of course I would feel no sympathy, as the situation could have been avoided had the recipient made better choices.

OH, OH, IT GETS BETTER. WHINY LITTLE SACK OF SHIT ALSO HAS A FINANCIAL SUPPORT SYSTEM in the form of a wife and a roommate. So, OK, double income, no kids, cheap rent, and he's absolutely being subsidized by people who earn more and pay more taxes than he does to support the infrastructure, whining about how he's too poor to afford therapy, which he actually has never even bothered to seek out.

SHUT UP, YOU WHINY LITTLE TURD.

Has it ever occurred to you that the vast majority of people receiving aid would really rather be working and supporting themselves? Assistance is not only humiliating, it's also a convoluted and confusing stream of paperwork that never seems to end. I'm glad that food stamps are relatively easy, but I tried to apply for health benefits once and... well, if you've ever owned your own business and never declared bankruptcy, you're fucked forever in terms of paperwork and "proving" that you really don't make money anymore.

Here's a fun fact for you: The vast majority of people receiving aid are either working, or in school.
Lazy fuckers.

As far as your "poor family planning" comment, most of the single mothers receiving aid WEREN'T SINGLE WHEN THEY GOT PREGNANT. Nor did they anticipate being single down the road. But when their husband starts fucking around on them and finds someone they want to stick their dick in more, and they end up divorced, who usually ends up in the economic shitter trying to raise a kid or three? It really doesn't take a fucking genius, Einstein.

Here, read this, it's funny but true: http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-understand-about-poor-people/

Get your dumb ass out there and LEARN SOMETHING about the way the world really works before you make yourself sound even more like an inbred teabilly spouting off about "white flight" and "family planning". Jesus fuck.

[navkat]

I think what Nigel's trying to say is that you're not listening. You came here seemingly to tell but when people make suggestions, you knock them down and moreover, you're knocking them down with a bunch of self-sabotaging political party-line silliness than makes you sound like a trained squirrel.

When someone recommended the BIP to you, it was an insult for you to dismiss that so readily because it symbolizes a lot of really deep personal reflection and internal "bullshit policework" we did to eliminate a lot of illusions with the understanding that you can never eliminate ALL of them.

But it's not really us you're insulting in the long-run, it's yourself. You see us and not being able to comprehend your plight. We're a bunch of know-it-alls who have a lot to say and are throwing bricks at you.

We see you as a guy, sitting in a mud puddle, smearing mud all over his own face...who can't see where he is or what he's doing because there's mud on his face.

Go back and take another look. Here's a hint: when you're CERTAIN you have it all figured out and there's nothing left to look at, there's something else to look at.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I was really hoping this was going to be a "screeching monkey stands up" story, and then he said he'd rather be racist than labeled crazy.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Combined household income is what, $5100+/month and he's "too poor" to get off his whiny racist ass and find a therapist.

And only paid $2500 last year in taxes, which means he's STILL being subsidized by people who earn more, and whining about it.