Tennessee getting ready to throw poor students under the bus.

[Juana]

Yeah, it does. Because helping other human beings scrape by is a minor inconvenience, right? Instead of a criteria for being a semi-decent human being. 

[Salty]

Oh, hah, you guise, I'm sure there's no way this guy is in fact a typical white male, early 20's who just shat his britches after downing Atlas Shrugged and is riding high in a wave of unknown entitlement.

That would just be, well, the kind of trite cliche that doesn't happen in real life. Right?

[Junkenstein]

Oh, hah, you guise, I'm sure there's no way this guy is in fact a typical white male, early 20's who just shat his britches after downing Atlas Shrugged and is riding high in a wave of unknown entitlement.

That would just be, well, the kind of trite cliche that doesn't happen in real life. Right?

And now I can't stop laughing.

[Junkenstein]

Yeah, it does. Because helping other human beings scrape by is a minor inconvenience, right? Instead of a criteria for being a semi-decent human being.

The helping hand is CRUSHED UNDER THE MARCH OF PROGRESS CITIZEN.

[Cain]

I have the minor inconvenience of alleviating these people's ails, or the minor inconvenience of defending my property

[Banned User 1]

Oh, hah, you guise, I'm sure there's no way this guy is in fact a typical white male, early 20's who just shat his britches after downing Atlas Shrugged and is riding high in a wave of unknown entitlement.

That would just be, well, the kind of trite cliche that doesn't happen in real life. Right?

Your definition of "entitlement" is confusing to me. In the places in which I see the term usually, entitlement is used as a term against those who believe that the state should provide welfare under the assumption that every human being is "entitled" to resources.

Also, haven't read Ayn Rand since highschool...and to be honest, back then I was the dirty pot smoking hippy who would have probably been poking fun of current me for being such a harsh and evil man -- if anything, at that stage, I saw Rand's works as being anti-authoritarian rather than being related to free market capitalism...mainly because I was stupid at the time. No, it wasn't Ayn Rand who turned me to my current beliefs about the world...it was living life under the boot of government welfare, poverty, and all of its short comings and abuses that motivated me to strive to be better than not only my neighbours, but my prior self as well.

In other words, I was once one of those "degenerate poor" that I may come off as railing against. Being such a pathetic thing made me hate myself. That hate towards my situation motivated me to strive to be better than myself.

[Salty]

Oh, hah, you guise, I'm sure there's no way this guy is in fact a typical white male, early 20's who just shat his britches after downing Atlas Shrugged and is riding high in a wave of unknown entitlement.

That would just be, well, the kind of trite cliche that doesn't happen in real life. Right?

Your definition of "entitlement" is confusing to me. In the places in which I see the term usually, entitlement is used as a term against those who believe that the state should provide welfare under the assumption that every human being is "entitled" to resources.

Also, haven't read Ayn Rand since highschool...and to be honest, back then I was the dirty pot smoking hippy who would have probably been poking fun of current me for being such a harsh and evil man -- if anything, at that stage, I saw Rand's works as being anti-authoritarian rather than being related to free market capitalism...mainly because I was stupid at the time. No, it wasn't Ayn Rand who turned me to my current beliefs about the world...it was living life under the boot of government welfare, poverty, and all of its short comings and abuses that motivated me to strive to be better than not only my neighbours, but my prior self as well.

In other words, I was once one of those "degenerate poor" that I may come off as railing against. Being such a pathetic thing made me hate myself. That hate towards my situation motivated me to strive to be better than myself.

I am the same way about newagers.

But you have to understand that you're missing a huge chunk of the pie here. There's a large element to this equation that you're just not seeing.

Your hate does not invalidate the need for a society to.provide some kind of safety net. The net, and those who take advantage of it, are not causing the problem.

[Junkenstein]

Ok, mabey I did make my statement a bit broad. I'll concede that we need roads...
Where you're going, you won't need roads

I guess I'm just frustrated at seeing my cash:hours worked ratio DROP as I work longer hours due to taxation. It just kinda frustrates me.
Son, welcome to a recession. This is the first one you've worked through. It's shitty and they come around quite frequently. All part of the boom/bust economy built on house prices.Get used to it. It sucks.

I guess I rationalise my hatred for welfare systems on the false assumption that "killing the worthless poor" would make my paycheck bigger.

This is where you can begin to fuck off. Read that sentance few times and think about what this says about you as a person and for you reasoning abilities. The fact you deem someone as "worthless" due to needing aid. Fuck man. Really?

I'll still hold true to the fact that, as it stands, I don't really benefit from government.

What you mean is you feel you do not currently benefit. They've sunk a lot of cost into you in many ways, including education

I pay for my water and electricity,

As do those "worthless poor

I drive to work on roads funded by the corporation I work for,
Selective argument. Do you exclusively use roads funded by your corporation? No? Null and void. Next.

at 9.50/hr, I'm "too rich" to take advantage of any of my government's social welfare systems,

Boo hoo. Same here. I just wish I could earn less money to be better off you know? Or maybe the fact that you're struggling on this level should give you some FUCKING EMPATHY for those below it. They way forward is not to fuck everyone in a more vulnerable position that you. 

I don't have kids, so I don't really concern myself with the school system,
Did you go through it? Do you foresee children within your lifetime? Yes to either means you should think about this shit. The kids going through that system now are not a lot younger than you. Need a primer on how shitty children become shitty adults? Look at schools.

and I CC, so when it comes down to it, it's not the police protecting me from crime...
Yeah, all the police do is mop up after the fact. They don't help society at large. The ME-ISM is starting to grate now.

in short, I don't really see anything but a few under-maintained in-town roads as being something I fund with taxes that I get a return on.
You're a fucking "libertarian" aren't you?

I'll concede, though, that welfare isn't my problem. Perhaps military spending, police spending or corrections spending should be cut as a "less evil" way to make my paycheck bigger...

Look, Welfare IS a problem. However it's A problem. Just like all the other things are problems. I guaranfuckingtee you that the best way out of a problem is not vilifying the fuck out of group of people until everyone just blames them. If you need a history lesson on why that's a bad thing then I can agree that your education was essentially free and worthless.


At the end of it, you're young. You need to read a shitload more, shut the fuck up more and seriously fucking think about what the fuck you are saying. Some of that up there is pretty fucking abhorrent.

You either missed this or ignored it.

And what you have just argued for is the removal of something that kept you alive. Words fail me.

[Salty]

Yeah, that's a good point.

You just argued that the safety net allowed you to get yourself to a better place. Where would have been without it?

[Banned User 1]

Oh, hah, you guise, I'm sure there's no way this guy is in fact a typical white male, early 20's who just shat his britches after downing Atlas Shrugged and is riding high in a wave of unknown entitlement.

That would just be, well, the kind of trite cliche that doesn't happen in real life. Right?

Your definition of "entitlement" is confusing to me. In the places in which I see the term usually, entitlement is used as a term against those who believe that the state should provide welfare under the assumption that every human being is "entitled" to resources.

Also, haven't read Ayn Rand since highschool...and to be honest, back then I was the dirty pot smoking hippy who would have probably been poking fun of current me for being such a harsh and evil man -- if anything, at that stage, I saw Rand's works as being anti-authoritarian rather than being related to free market capitalism...mainly because I was stupid at the time. No, it wasn't Ayn Rand who turned me to my current beliefs about the world...it was living life under the boot of government welfare, poverty, and all of its short comings and abuses that motivated me to strive to be better than not only my neighbours, but my prior self as well.

In other words, I was once one of those "degenerate poor" that I may come off as railing against. Being such a pathetic thing made me hate myself. That hate towards my situation motivated me to strive to be better than myself.

I am the same way about newagers.

But you have to understand that you're missing a huge chunk of the pie here. There's a large element to this equation that you're just not seeing.

Your hate does not invalidate the need for a society to.provide some kind of safety net. The net, and those who take advantage of it, are not causing the problem.

Right, and by this point in the thread, I've already accepted that. I was "sold" on cain's post because I read it as pretty much laying out that dirty dealings were more of an issue than welfare.

[Juana]

And also it amuses me that you're mad at poor people instead of the corporations that are responsible for the fact that you're only making $9.50 an hour.
What you should be doing instead of being racist and classist is going after the entities responsible for the situation.

[Salty]

Oh, hah, you guise, I'm sure there's no way this guy is in fact a typical white male, early 20's who just shat his britches after downing Atlas Shrugged and is riding high in a wave of unknown entitlement.

That would just be, well, the kind of trite cliche that doesn't happen in real life. Right?

Your definition of "entitlement" is confusing to me. In the places in which I see the term usually, entitlement is used as a term against those who believe that the state should provide welfare under the assumption that every human being is "entitled" to resources.

Also, haven't read Ayn Rand since highschool...and to be honest, back then I was the dirty pot smoking hippy who would have probably been poking fun of current me for being such a harsh and evil man -- if anything, at that stage, I saw Rand's works as being anti-authoritarian rather than being related to free market capitalism...mainly because I was stupid at the time. No, it wasn't Ayn Rand who turned me to my current beliefs about the world...it was living life under the boot of government welfare, poverty, and all of its short comings and abuses that motivated me to strive to be better than not only my neighbours, but my prior self as well.

In other words, I was once one of those "degenerate poor" that I may come off as railing against. Being such a pathetic thing made me hate myself. That hate towards my situation motivated me to strive to be better than myself.

I am the same way about newagers.

But you have to understand that you're missing a huge chunk of the pie here. There's a large element to this equation that you're just not seeing.

Your hate does not invalidate the need for a society to.provide some kind of safety net. The net, and those who take advantage of it, are not causing the problem.

Right, and by this point in the thread, I've already accepted that. I was "sold" on cain's post because I read it as pretty much laying out that dirty dealings were more of an issue than welfare.

Well, alrighty, then.

[AFK]

And also it amuses me that you're mad at poor people instead of the corporations that are responsible for the fact that you're only making $9.50 an hour.
What you should be doing instead of being racist and classist is going after the entities responsible for the situation.

Jeezus dude, that's going a bit far don't you think? I mean, sure, rib the kid for being young or whatever but calling him a racist is a bit much I think.

[Banned User 1]

Yeah, that's a good point.

You just argued that the safety net allowed you to get yourself to a better place. Where would have been without it?

[joke]I would have been a free market capitalist making a living as the executive of a local-scale marijuana sales firms[/joke]

In all seriousness, my old opinion is breaking down.

This is good too. Again, I come here mainly because this forum holds opinions that are so contrary to what I usually hold as valid. Thanks again, PD, for making me look retarded, such that I may further my understanding of political discourses!

[AFK]

But the problem isn't welfare, it's that we don't have good policies in place that canhelp work a person out of welfare and into some kind of more comfortable situation.  Basic human pride says a person is going to want to be the best they can be, unless they've completely given up hope.  Which certainly is an issue with those in generational poverty.  It shouldn't be tied to getting benefits, but there should be more programs to help those on welfare get the experience they need to move up the ladder in the workforce,