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Black Face, Brown Face, Red Face, Blue Face

Started by Wolfgang Absolutus, June 21, 2013, 03:48:23 AM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

It happened, according to Wikipedia, after he landed the role.  Basically, the Comanche chief or leader or spokesperson or whatever wanted to hitch their flag to Depp for the purposes of....I dunno, greater publicity or something?  Improved media access?  Whatever.  Anyway, the sequence of events was: get the role -> honourary adoption.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

You can't really NOT walk around being Native all the time if you're Native. It's not like I can just stop being Native or Black or one of those weird little dwarf viking peace freaks from that cluster of islands in Northern Scotland.

It just isn't relevant most of the time, so it doesn't come up. It's not like I greet people with "How" and wear feathers in my hair. Ever. I mean, how much time out of the day do you spend thinking or talking about being white? I probably spend marginally more time than that thinking or talking about being not-white, because it's not the default so it tends to directly impact me in tangible ways more often, but it still isn't a whole lot of time.

Seriously, that would be pretty weird, if I just walked around being all "here I am, on my way to the store being mixed-race Native and Black" "Now here I am, getting chicken and rice bowl at the food carts, in a mixed-race fashion. I will eat it with a plastic fork, as is the way of my people".

It's more of a passive thing, really.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

QuoteI will eat it with a plastic fork, as is the way of my people

That's CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2013, 11:25:50 PM
It happened, according to Wikipedia, after he landed the role.  Basically, the Comanche chief or leader or spokesperson or whatever wanted to hitch their flag to Depp for the purposes of....I dunno, greater publicity or something?  Improved media access?  Whatever.  Anyway, the sequence of events was: get the role -> honourary adoption.

Indian tribes very often honorarily adopt people who work closely with them for a period of time. It's a thing.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
QuoteI will eat it with a plastic fork, as is the way of my people

That's CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.

YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT'S IN MY HEART, MUGGLE!
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 21, 2013, 11:31:55 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2013, 11:25:50 PM
It happened, according to Wikipedia, after he landed the role.  Basically, the Comanche chief or leader or spokesperson or whatever wanted to hitch their flag to Depp for the purposes of....I dunno, greater publicity or something?  Improved media access?  Whatever.  Anyway, the sequence of events was: get the role -> honourary adoption.

Indian tribes very often honorarily adopt people who work closely with them for a period of time. It's a thing.

Oh yeah, that's true.  Depp's a method actor, something I keep forgetting.  He's probably being hanging around and asking questions a lot.  That + the publicity makes a little more sense.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Epidemiologist up at OHSU worked with the Warm Springs on a project quantifying the relative level of risk of eating their traditional diet including a lot of salmon contaminated with PCBs, vs. adopting Western dietary practices (it turns out that you should eat the contaminated salmon, seriously, it's WAY less bad for you) so they adopted him. And his research assistant.

Go near a reservation and odds are pretty high that, if they weren't already tribe members, they've ceremonially adopted their doctor, schoolteacher, and the mechanic just outside of town.

I mean, some tribe adopted Kevin Costner.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Nephew Twiddleton

Thats kind of a neat custom. Understandable too. Its more of a part of the community thing.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Twid on June 21, 2013, 11:40:17 PM
Thats kind of a neat custom. Understandable too. Its more of a part of the community thing.

Yeah, I  think it's sort of just ritualizing making someone a member of the community. It happens everywhere, there just isn't usually a ritual attached to it.

Of course, the fact that there's a ritual attached to it is reflective of a pretty fucked-up racist colonial history of ongoing race-based policies that are expressly designed to effect genocide, but hey.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Left

#70
Quote from: GrannySmith on June 21, 2013, 11:06:13 AM

i have enough trouble figuring out MY OWN mixed culture, not only the ones provided by my "different race" parents but the cultures of the ethnicities and of the individuals that i incorporated so far in my life.

PS- Not accepting the term "race" as a genetic thing does not mean that i don't think racism exists - that would be ridiculous indeed.
:tldr:

Again, race is a social construct. 
It's a social reality.
It has real social penalties if you aren't the privileged race.
Examples...

In England, Indian people are considered black.
In the US, they are generally considered white.
In Japan, if you ain't Japanese, you ain't shit.
I am told Han Chinese discriminate against those who are not Han.
Korea too-people of non Korean ancestry are considered ugly foreigners, not welcome.

In the US, white skin privilege is a real thing.
That doesn't mean actually being white is a real thing.

QuoteOne-third of white Americans, according to some tests, will possess between two and 20 per cent African genes. The majority of black Americans have some European ancestors.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jul/15/usa.genetics

According to the old "one-drop" laws, that would make up to 33% of "white" people black.  But they appear white, and think of themselves as white.
Social construct.
Real on the social level, false on the genetic level...

Saying "I don't see race," Is a really tone-deaf thing to say, if that makes any sense, and we should probably Not Go There.
...And all this has nothing to do with actors playing characters, or getting inducted into First Nations tribes, so I'll drop it.
Hope was the thing with feathers.
I smacked it with a hammer until it was red and squashy

Bu🤠ns

Wouldn't it be more demeaning for a Native American to play Tonto anyway? Maybe something akin to a real black minstrel act?  Just a thought.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 21, 2013, 11:37:32 PM
Epidemiologist up at OHSU worked with the Warm Springs on a project quantifying the relative level of risk of eating their traditional diet including a lot of salmon contaminated with PCBs, vs. adopting Western dietary practices (it turns out that you should eat the contaminated salmon, seriously, it's WAY less bad for you) so they adopted him. And his research assistant.

Go near a reservation and odds are pretty high that, if they weren't already tribe members, they've ceremonially adopted their doctor, schoolteacher, and the mechanic just outside of town.

I mean, some tribe adopted Kevin Costner.

:horrormirth: :horrormirth: :horrormirth:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Bu☆ns on June 22, 2013, 04:30:25 AM
Wouldn't it be more demeaning for a Native American to play Tonto anyway? Maybe something akin to a real black minstrel act?  Just a thought.

Yeah. He was essentially Step'n Fetchit with tracking skillz, IIRC.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2013, 11:25:50 PM
It happened, according to Wikipedia, after he landed the role.  Basically, the Comanche chief or leader or spokesperson or whatever wanted to hitch their flag to Depp for the purposes of....I dunno, greater publicity or something?  Improved media access?  Whatever.  Anyway, the sequence of events was: get the role -> honourary adoption.

Look how this fits into the timeline http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/w0012381.html
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division