Why I'm not an Atheist

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In Peter Carrols model, he uses the metaphor of the 'Kia' which is a singularity. In order to experience, the Kia spins off bits of itself which become the duality of existing life. That life experiences and then at death, return to the Kia with the experiences.

The Kia is a metaphor, which can be further embellished like God or Source Energy or whatever. However, Kia itself is just a symbol to represent the whatever.

I find the failure of this model is the fact that I end up envisioning imported cars which look like ghosts driving human bodies around.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In Peter Carrols model, he uses the metaphor of the 'Kia' which is a singularity.

Which is a what, now?

[Cramulus]

I think it's a brand of automobile

[Salty]

Terrible resale value.

Thanks, god.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In Peter Carrols model, he uses the metaphor of the 'Kia' which is a singularity.

Which is a what, now?

A metaphor which was created by a super dense pile of recycled automobiles, compacted to the point that they created a black hole.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In Peter Carrols model, he uses the metaphor of the 'Kia' which is a singularity.

Which is a what, now?

A metaphor which was created by a super dense pile of recycled automobiles, compacted to the point that they created a black hole.

Okay.

[Forsooth]

Terrible resale value.

Thanks, god.

seriously,  its a miracle if mine breaks 1k for a trade in

[tyrannosaurus vex]

In Peter Carrols model, he uses the metaphor of the 'Kia' which is a singularity.

Which is a what, now?

Taking SRS stab:

Singularity. As far as we can directly imagine it, it is infinity. The sum of absolutely everything, which is limitless. But, it is not necessarily really "infinity." It is "infinity" in the same sense that a block of cheese is infinitely tall from the perspective of a 2-dimensional being. There is no concept of height in two dimensions, so any height other than 0 is infinite. This kind of thing exists for us, too. For example, time. It goes on and on and on forever. There is no point before which time did not exist, from our perspective, because if there was no time then nothing would have begun. There is no point after which time will cease to exist, as far as we can easily comprehend, because if time was erased, then it would be impossible to experience it as the very act of experience is defined by noticing what changes from one moment to the next.

But, of course, just because it is hard to imagine doesn't mean it isn't real. Just like some 2-dimensional being might be unable to comprehend a block of cheese, and may try to evaluate that block of cheese based on a subset of experiences that can never really amount to an understanding it, we imagine a Singularity, which to us is infinite but may really be just another object somewhere, outside the reach of our experience and thus outside our comprehension.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thank you, V3X.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In Peter Carrols model, he uses the metaphor of the 'Kia' which is a singularity.

Which is a what, now?

Taking SRS stab:

Singularity. As far as we can directly imagine it, it is infinity. The sum of absolutely everything, which is limitless. But, it is not necessarily really "infinity." It is "infinity" in the same sense that a block of cheese is infinitely tall from the perspective of a 2-dimensional being. There is no concept of height in two dimensions, so any height other than 0 is infinite. This kind of thing exists for us, too. For example, time. It goes on and on and on forever. There is no point before which time did not exist, from our perspective, because if there was no time then nothing would have begun. There is no point after which time will cease to exist, as far as we can easily comprehend, because if time was erased, then it would be impossible to experience it as the very act of experience is defined by noticing what changes from one moment to the next.

But, of course, just because it is hard to imagine doesn't mean it isn't real. Just like some 2-dimensional being might be unable to comprehend a block of cheese, and may try to evaluate that block of cheese based on a subset of experiences that can never really amount to an understanding it, we imagine a Singularity, which to us is infinite but may really be just another object somewhere, outside the reach of our experience and thus outside our comprehension.

Nice

In the model, Carrol basically refuses to detail the Kia, as any sort of description, identification or label is just more metaphor. But, for the term singularity, I think you nailed it.

[Cramulus]

Here's my belief system of the day, please dismantle it

Consciousness is the product of a signal being broadcast by the whole universe at once

They tell me that's how gravity works too -- every piece of mass in the universe is simultaneously attracting every other piece of mass in the universe (to varying degrees). My tiny almond-shaped pineal gland is being very subtly pulled by every atom in the entire crab nebula. I've always found something awesomely romantic about that.

We have unique hardware, and that hardware is in a unique environment (and at a certain level of magnification, the border between hardware and environment is very blurry), and this generates a subjective experience of consciousness -- ie, our individual points of view.

But basically, a rat's consciousness and a human's consciousness come from the same source, but they interpret that signal very differently. Maybe a plant's consciousness is the same too - but it's like, their receiver can only handle a small slice of the signal. They get radio, we get television.


I dig the "whole cloth" explanation of the universe, it's all one cloth, there is very little which distinguishes you from me from the chair I'm sitting on. All the things in the universe directly or indirectly influence my experiences and in turn my decisions. Sure, the nigh-imperceptible light from Sirius is not a big factor in my decision making, but it's there.  (see also: the blanket scene from I Heart Huckabees)

And this is why I try to be a good guy -- because I'm in an energy circuit with everything else. If I blast somebody, that energy does damage. Maybe not to the part of the world I perceive as the self. But it is the self. That's what Yonkers, New York is like - it's a city that is angry at the parts of the city which are angry. You get back service at a diner, you pass it forward to the guy at the convenience store, who passes it forward to the next customer. The negativity spreads along the blanket, not stopping at the imaginary borders of the self.

Hegel says what we really want is to see our consciousness reflected in the universe. You want to see things you identify with, it reenforces your sense of self and your will.

There are two ways of going about this. Hegel talked about the way where you forge the world using your will, you become a creator, you become a citizen, and you identify with things by influencing them.

I think there's another way too--which is to stop treating consciousness as an individual experience, but something we're all sharing. If we were all on the same boat, you'd do your best not to piss everybody off, because we're stuck together. We are all on the same boat, but it's the size of the entire universe, so you forget.

Me and you are just different expressions of the same signal. We're robots receiving identical instructions, but our interpreters are built slightly differently.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I can get on board with that, mostly, but the question remains what happens to this signal after the interpreter keels over.

Is there any part of you, that you are aware of, or that you can develop an awareness of, that will still be around when the rest of you is dead?

[Cramulus]

When your router breaks, what happens to the internet signal?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

When your router breaks, what happens to the internet signal?

It gets stuck in my laptop. 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

When your router breaks, what happens to the internet signal?

It doesn't even notice anything happened.