Author Topic: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest  (Read 2399 times)

babyjesus

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Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« on: July 04, 2016, 12:20:27 am »
It isn't just that Fukushima represents a fuck up of biblical proportions on a schedule to remind future generations of our folly ice ages from now.

It isn't that Fukushima is slowly poisoning a nation of people whose culture, based on NEVER FUCKING UP, was at or near the epitome of human society.

It isn't the incalculable damage done and being done to the Pacific Ocean, the environment and future generations of Japanese, or even that their island may eventually become largely uninhabitable. It isn't the probable legacy of cancer and various other diseases that will be born into the chemistry of Japanese people hereafter.

It isn't that we, they, tptb, the mighty technological race of modern man doesn't know wtf to do now to fix or even contain the toxic cauldron that is Fukushima.

No, what it is is far more base. Far more elementary. Far more powerful and far more endemic within our species.

What it is about Fukushima that matters, that makes a difference, that defines our species is that we created Fukushima without a clue in the world what to do if tshtf.

We had no plan, none, whatsoever!

Just like we still don't have a plan for disposing of the nuclear waste scattered all over the planet at nuclear power facilities and military bases just waiting to become another impossible problem of biblical proportions.

All that to get plutonium so we could destroy one another within 30 minutes from remote silos and underground command centers.

Gee, I guess it's worth it when you put it that way. NOT!!!!

Anyway, I guess I see why Elon Musk appears to be urgent in his quest to provide our species a plan B on some other planet.

But Elon the same kind of thinking that created this mess here, is gonna follow you'ins there.

I am reminded of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

No fucking wonder I am a misanthrope.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 05:58:30 am »
While Fukushima isn't nearly the threat to humanity you represent it as, you also make some really damn fine points, here. Our desire to forge ahead far outstrips our capacity for planning ahead. This may well end us in fairly short time, right here in the toddler stage of human evolution.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 06:06:00 am »

We had no plan, none, whatsoever!


This is how humans roll.  It was designed to be a disaster.  The back up generators - which could ONLY be necessary in a flood - were on the ground instead of on the roof, and were thus knocked out by the water.  That one little fucking detail, which would have been absolutely obvious to a maintenance tech, was completely overlooked by the engineers.

Leaving aside the entire idea of nuclear power, leaving aside the Japanese cultural idea (and they are not alone in this) that you don't question technical authority, what this comes down to is people who are trained to design by the book vs people who are trained to handle or repair things when the chips are down, and their absolute inability and unwillingness to communicate.

I could write a book on this.  And it's worth mentioning that the fault is not entirely with the engineers.  Not by a long shot.
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Cain

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 07:01:58 am »

We had no plan, none, whatsoever!


You should look at the political disaster that is Brexit currently.

We decided to leave the world's largest market, and 40+ years of the legislative framework most of our laws were created in....with absolutely no plan.  Granted, Fukushima is a bit more important in most senses (especially since only 2 people I can think of have died as a result of Brexit), but it should give you an idea of the kind of mentality we're talking about here.

And then you can look at the postwar planning for Libya and Iraq, lack thereof.

It's almost like this is a running theme...

Junkenstein

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2016, 09:13:32 am »
Quote
Leaving aside the entire idea of nuclear power, leaving aside the Japanese cultural idea (and they are not alone in this) that you don't question technical authority, what this comes down to is people who are trained to design by the book vs people who are trained to handle or repair things when the chips are down, and their absolute inability and unwillingness to communicate.

I could write a book on this.  And it's worth mentioning that the fault is not entirely with the engineers.  Not by a long shot.

Can I request a copy or at least room to write a couple of chapters? I've seen failures in communication and planning that border the absurd.

It's also worth remembering a Human's intent to fixate on a tiny irrelevant detail while everything else goes to shit around it.
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babyjesus

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 03:02:58 pm »
While Fukushima isn't nearly the threat to humanity you represent it as, you also make some really damn fine points, here. Our desire to forge ahead far outstrips our capacity for planning ahead. This may well end us in fairly short time, right here in the toddler stage of human evolution.

yeah.

But even if I am exaggerating the scope of the disaster Fukushima there simply is no way to exaggerate the dangers of modern man playing with nuclear power.

There was a running debate before they tested the first devices about whether or not a nuclear detonation would ignite all of the atmospheric oxygen globally. So natcherally they tried it to find out.

babyjesus

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2016, 03:10:34 pm »

We had no plan, none, whatsoever!


This is how humans roll.  It was designed to be a disaster.  The back up generators - which could ONLY be necessary in a flood - were on the ground instead of on the roof, and were thus knocked out by the water.  That one little fucking detail, which would have been absolutely obvious to a maintenance tech, was completely overlooked by the engineers.

Leaving aside the entire idea of nuclear power, leaving aside the Japanese cultural idea (and they are not alone in this) that you don't question technical authority, what this comes down to is people who are trained to design by the book vs people who are trained to handle or repair things when the chips are down, and their absolute inability and unwillingness to communicate.

I could write a book on this.  And it's worth mentioning that the fault is not entirely with the engineers.  Not by a long shot.

We roll like a square wheel sometimes.

It seems like General Electric designed the reactors at Fukushima. I vaguely recall that being true. That may account for that lack of communication. Dunno.

This reminds me of the logistical glitches that plagued the Dreamliner because they outsourced the design of components to the venders who made the components. So back home an Boeing they had neither the information nor the familiarity with the design of the components to trouble shoot or even test them properly.

Fukushima was part of our early programs to export US nuclear technology so we spread the risks instead of placing them all in our own back yards.

Now the folks involved in the Manhattan Project had a pretty good record of success. But the rest of our nuclear program was pock marked with myriad mistakes and errors of judgement.

Aren't all modern human attempts at mega organization subject to the same kind of clusterfvck due to miscommunication? Haven't we heard this story a million times?

babyjesus

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 03:13:29 pm »

We had no plan, none, whatsoever!


You should look at the political disaster that is Brexit currently.

We decided to leave the world's largest market, and 40+ years of the legislative framework most of our laws were created in....with absolutely no plan.  Granted, Fukushima is a bit more important in most senses (especially since only 2 people I can think of have died as a result of Brexit), but it should give you an idea of the kind of mentality we're talking about here.

And then you can look at the postwar planning for Libya and Iraq, lack thereof.

It's almost like this is a running theme...

Yeah, Farage just stepped down. Dunno if you had heard yet when you posted.

If your Parliament is anything at all like our Congress it may be a fortnight before you negotiate anything solid with the crumblfucked EU.

Besides, aren't these kind of negotiations traditionally held AFTER the war is concluded?

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2016, 03:20:27 pm »
Quote
Leaving aside the entire idea of nuclear power, leaving aside the Japanese cultural idea (and they are not alone in this) that you don't question technical authority, what this comes down to is people who are trained to design by the book vs people who are trained to handle or repair things when the chips are down, and their absolute inability and unwillingness to communicate.

I could write a book on this.  And it's worth mentioning that the fault is not entirely with the engineers.  Not by a long shot.

Can I request a copy or at least room to write a couple of chapters? I've seen failures in communication and planning that border the absurd.

It's also worth remembering a Human's intent to fixate on a tiny irrelevant detail while everything else goes to shit around it.

I have nothing to contribute to that book, but I will work my ass off to get it in the hands of a For Realsies publisher and into people's hands if you (either or both) decide to do it. It's shit people need.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2016, 06:27:51 pm »
Quote
Leaving aside the entire idea of nuclear power, leaving aside the Japanese cultural idea (and they are not alone in this) that you don't question technical authority, what this comes down to is people who are trained to design by the book vs people who are trained to handle or repair things when the chips are down, and their absolute inability and unwillingness to communicate.

I could write a book on this.  And it's worth mentioning that the fault is not entirely with the engineers.  Not by a long shot.

Can I request a copy or at least room to write a couple of chapters? I've seen failures in communication and planning that border the absurd.

It's also worth remembering a Human's intent to fixate on a tiny irrelevant detail while everything else goes to shit around it.

I have nothing to contribute to that book, but I will work my ass off to get it in the hands of a For Realsies publisher and into people's hands if you (either or both) decide to do it. It's shit people need.

worth thinking about.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Junkenstein

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 07:12:01 pm »
Quote
Leaving aside the entire idea of nuclear power, leaving aside the Japanese cultural idea (and they are not alone in this) that you don't question technical authority, what this comes down to is people who are trained to design by the book vs people who are trained to handle or repair things when the chips are down, and their absolute inability and unwillingness to communicate.

I could write a book on this.  And it's worth mentioning that the fault is not entirely with the engineers.  Not by a long shot.

Can I request a copy or at least room to write a couple of chapters? I've seen failures in communication and planning that border the absurd.

It's also worth remembering a Human's intent to fixate on a tiny irrelevant detail while everything else goes to shit around it.

I have nothing to contribute to that book, but I will work my ass off to get it in the hands of a For Realsies publisher and into people's hands if you (either or both) decide to do it. It's shit people need.

worth thinking about.

I'm game if you are. Seriously, I'm sitting on a few stories of new clients until I know the full joke(s).
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 07:15:36 pm »
While Fukushima isn't nearly the threat to humanity you represent it as, you also make some really damn fine points, here. Our desire to forge ahead far outstrips our capacity for planning ahead. This may well end us in fairly short time, right here in the toddler stage of human evolution.

yeah.

But even if I am exaggerating the scope of the disaster Fukushima there simply is no way to exaggerate the dangers of modern man playing with nuclear power.

There was a running debate before they tested the first devices about whether or not a nuclear detonation would ignite all of the atmospheric oxygen globally. So natcherally they tried it to find out.

Hold on... is your source Reddit? Oxygen is an accelerant, it doesn't "ignite".
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


babyjesus

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2016, 10:37:05 pm »
While Fukushima isn't nearly the threat to humanity you represent it as, you also make some really damn fine points, here. Our desire to forge ahead far outstrips our capacity for planning ahead. This may well end us in fairly short time, right here in the toddler stage of human evolution.

yeah.

But even if I am exaggerating the scope of the disaster Fukushima there simply is no way to exaggerate the dangers of modern man playing with nuclear power.

There was a running debate before they tested the first devices about whether or not a nuclear detonation would ignite all of the atmospheric oxygen globally. So natcherally they tried it to find out.

Hold on... is your source Reddit? Oxygen is an accelerant, it doesn't "ignite".

Did Manhattan Project scientists really fear that an atomic explosion would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and destroy the world?

https://www.quora.com/Did-Manhattan-Project-scientists-really-fear-that-an-atomic-explosion-would-ignite-the-oxygen-in-the-atmosphere-and-destroy-the-world

Quote
It came from just one scientist, Edward Teller, who put forth the idea. Oppenheimer looked into it and it was soon realized this was a groundless fear given the size of the bombs under consideration.

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2016, 10:44:06 pm »
While Fukushima isn't nearly the threat to humanity you represent it as, you also make some really damn fine points, here. Our desire to forge ahead far outstrips our capacity for planning ahead. This may well end us in fairly short time, right here in the toddler stage of human evolution.

yeah.

But even if I am exaggerating the scope of the disaster Fukushima there simply is no way to exaggerate the dangers of modern man playing with nuclear power.

There was a running debate before they tested the first devices about whether or not a nuclear detonation would ignite all of the atmospheric oxygen globally. So natcherally they tried it to find out.

Hold on... is your source Reddit? Oxygen is an accelerant, it doesn't "ignite".

Did Manhattan Project scientists really fear that an atomic explosion would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and destroy the world?

https://www.quora.com/Did-Manhattan-Project-scientists-really-fear-that-an-atomic-explosion-would-ignite-the-oxygen-in-the-atmosphere-and-destroy-the-world

Quote
It came from just one scientist, Edward Teller, who put forth the idea. Oppenheimer looked into it and it was soon realized this was a groundless fear given the size of the bombs under consideration.

It's nice that  you actually bothered to look it up and can admit that your claims were goofy as fuck.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-scientists-risked-destroying-the-earth-during-nuclear-tests-and-cern.t692/
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


babyjesus

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Re: Fukushima: witness Modern Man at his finest
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2016, 10:50:16 pm »
While Fukushima isn't nearly the threat to humanity you represent it as, you also make some really damn fine points, here. Our desire to forge ahead far outstrips our capacity for planning ahead. This may well end us in fairly short time, right here in the toddler stage of human evolution.

yeah.

But even if I am exaggerating the scope of the disaster Fukushima there simply is no way to exaggerate the dangers of modern man playing with nuclear power.

There was a running debate before they tested the first devices about whether or not a nuclear detonation would ignite all of the atmospheric oxygen globally. So natcherally they tried it to find out.

Hold on... is your source Reddit? Oxygen is an accelerant, it doesn't "ignite".

Did Manhattan Project scientists really fear that an atomic explosion would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and destroy the world?

https://www.quora.com/Did-Manhattan-Project-scientists-really-fear-that-an-atomic-explosion-would-ignite-the-oxygen-in-the-atmosphere-and-destroy-the-world

Quote
It came from just one scientist, Edward Teller, who put forth the idea. Oppenheimer looked into it and it was soon realized this was a groundless fear given the size of the bombs under consideration.

It's nice that  you actually bothered to look it up and can admit that your claims were goofy as fuck.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-scientists-risked-destroying-the-earth-during-nuclear-tests-and-cern.t692/

goofy as fuck as in true and verified with your own link.

Teller's concerns were not completely invalidated until they tested the first bomb in NM. Prior to that there was a vigorous running debate regarding the risks associated with detonating the bomb in an oxygen rich atmosphere.