Protestors Are Assholes

[Pergamos]

So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?

If you believed that you were shoving me out of the way of a moving car when, in fact, I was in no danger, then yes - you'd be an asshole; though I might forgive you for doing what you genuinely thought was right.

If you can't extend that kind of forgiveness across ideological boundaries, you're buying into the illusion that we don't live in a state of duality with actual, real people on both sides. Either that, or you're seeing that duality as good and evil, which I think is also a mistake since plenty of people on both sides do just that. It's dehumanizing and it's hypocritical.

So you are asserting that the people protesting Trump are wrong about the threat that he poses.  You keep insisting that you are not debating that though.

No, I'm making assertions about the nature of belief.

You start the thread by calling them assholes.  But if a car is really for real going to hit you and I shove you out of the way, then I am not being an asshole.  So if Trump is really for real a threat to the nation, including the people in the cars they are disrupting the traffic of, then they are also not assholes.

[LMNO]

Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

What did we learn today uncle roger?

That I should stick to what I know.   

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

You weren't asking for clarification, you were asking me to confirm whether or not the words you were putting in my mouth were true. Your question assumed a distortion and oversimplification of my point. You want genuine answers? Ask a genuine question.

But it WAS in the form of a question, given that your statement made no sense at all in any other context.

Do you actually have beliefs?  I mean, beliefs worth protesting for, specifically?

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

You start the thread by calling them assholes.  But if a car is really for real going to hit you and I shove you out of the way, then I am not being an asshole.  So if Trump is really for real a threat to the nation, including the people in the cars they are disrupting the traffic of, then they are also not assholes.

And if Obama was really a threat to the nation, then the Republicans were justified in obstructing him.

Do you see how this works yet? I think it's a lot easier to just admit that everyone is an asshole. If we can just agree that we're all assholes, then we've got some common ground on which to build a foundation for cooperation.

Probably not, but it sounds nice.

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

But it WAS in the form of a question

A lizard in the form of a human is still just a lizard.

If your question was legitimate, you'd have rephrased it. Your question was an attempt to undermine my argument. A poor one. Move along. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Do you actually have beliefs?

I have a strong belief that it is a mistake to have strong beliefs.

I mean, beliefs worth protesting for, specifically?

Yes. I've made a sign. Would you like to see it?

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

It needs to be kept in mind that Trump was not democratically elected. He lost the popular vote but won because of the electoral college. For this reason the protesters decrying this election are far more justified than the protesters against other previous elections where the winner was democratically elected.

[Junkenstein]

It needs to be kept in mind that Trump was not democratically elected. He lost the popular vote but won because of the electoral college. For this reason the protesters decrying this election are far more justified than the protesters against other previous elections where the winner was democratically elected.

Just like john Kerry and Al gore.

Google. It's useful.

[Pergamos]

You start the thread by calling them assholes.  But if a car is really for real going to hit you and I shove you out of the way, then I am not being an asshole.  So if Trump is really for real a threat to the nation, including the people in the cars they are disrupting the traffic of, then they are also not assholes.

And if Obama was really a threat to the nation, then the Republicans were justified in obstructing him.

Do you see how this works yet? I think it's a lot easier to just admit that everyone is an asshole. If we can just agree that we're all assholes, then we've got some common ground on which to build a foundation for cooperation.

Probably not, but it sounds nice.

It turns out they were wrong, since the nation is doing better than it was.  So they are in fact assholes.

[QueenThera]

if everyone is an asshole, then asshole just means human, and can be discarded as a word. There's no point to using it.

If asshole can vary in degree, then maybe it would make sense to compare asshole levels.

Someone who wants to bring back torture, kill civilians, and insists nothing is wrong with our policing system in this country, is a GIANT asshole, who does not equal a person who fought for universal healthcare.

I protest against giant assholes. I refuse to let a giant asshole be considered NORMAL. That's what the asshole WANTS. FUCK THAT ASSHOLE.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But it WAS in the form of a question

A lizard in the form of a human is still just a lizard.

If your question was legitimate, you'd have rephrased it. Your question was an attempt to undermine my argument. A poor one. Move along. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Do you actually have beliefs?

I have a strong belief that it is a mistake to have strong beliefs.

I mean, beliefs worth protesting for, specifically?

Yes. I've made a sign. Would you like to see it?

So you're a nihilist.  Boring. 

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

I know Bush wasn't elected entirely on the up-and-up either, that's why I didn;t say "all" previous elections.

[Ben Shapiro]

As someone who clearly remembers the inane fearmongering that was rampant among demonstrators just before Obama took office, I can absolutely say that the more important things to acknowledge are those which both groups have in common, rather than focusing on the subtle, irrelevant differences.

Every time we have a presidential election, these people come out in a full force of dehumanizing hypocrisy, carrying the message that if democracy isn't on their side this particular time, then it must be broken and the rules no longer apply to them. Then the people towards the middle either rationalize their legitimacy if they're on the same team or lambast the entire ideology if they aren't.

I'm fucking tired of it. Protestors are assholes.

Not to deny that sometimes it takes an asshole to get things done (Trump voters obviously think so), but can we stop pretending that these people are an exception to the rules just because we happen to support the same party? Can we at least just admit that they're being assholes?

Many of them didn't even vote. They seem to think that because they only care about one set of issues in the presidential election that everyone who voted the other way must have done so in order to undermine those particular issues. And don't get me started on character-assassination. Why are the assholes who rave about Donald Trump being a womanizer perfectly fine with the idea of the first First Gentleman being Bill Clinton?

The moderate liberals are looking the other way, just like the moderate conservatives looked the other way when the other set of assholes did the same thing in 2008 and 2012.

Do you think Trump cares about kids smoking pot? I do! I hope Trump continues to fund me in stopping one of America's domestic threats.

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

It needs to be kept in mind that Trump was not democratically elected. He lost the popular vote but won because of the electoral college. For this reason the protesters decrying this election are far more justified than the protesters against other previous elections where the winner was democratically elected.

It's not a system of direct democracy, but it is democratic in the sense that it's the people who decide. It's just a matter of how those people are concentrated.

I don't think popular vote legitimizes a protest, nor does the loss of a popular vote delegitimize one. After all, the system exists in order to avoid the real-world equivalent of argumentum ad populum in presidential elections.

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.