Author Topic: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread  (Read 379099 times)

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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2505 on: March 20, 2019, 08:23:55 pm »
And that people who insist they are hyper-rational and try to reject emotions are usually just not aware of the emotions involved in their decision making.

Oh, I'm well aware that rejection of emotion can lead counterproductively to pride, and that trying to cancel out passions and attachment with contempt is a hamfisted solution and will never balance correctly, but I don't have a better solution.

Also, I'm not really talking about elimination emotion and concern about emotion entirely, just eliminating it from attempts to determine what is true, or what is viable. Emotion can't tell you about anything other than itself. You can't determine anything about the real world through a priori reasoning
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2506 on: March 20, 2019, 08:36:05 pm »
He prob missed that the Vulcans are written as badly flawed characters, not ideal ones.

And that people who insist they are hyper-rational and try to reject emotions are usually just not aware of the emotions involved in their decision making.

In Beezlebub's Tales, there's a made-up term 'Hasnamuss'. It refers to someone who is real intellectual, and therefore thinks of themselves as the Homo Superior -- but yet has a diminished sensitivity and capacity to relate to others. They have lots of information, but no understanding, due to a lack of experience managing real life situations involving other people. This makes them some of the most dangerous people on the planet.

There's a parable about how humanity, at one point in prehistory, manages to overcome all these ego-related issues like vanity, territoriality, paranoia, the collective madness that drives us to war, etc... but then it gets destroyed when a hasnamuss invents politics.

I can get where the desire comes from - I too once thought that the world would be better off if we were all just rational computer-people. But emotions are an important component of processing how things really are - by blinding yourself to them, you're operating at diminished capacity.

Like, this vaguely reminds me of one of the Dok's recently bumped threads about epistemology but a different angle.

Theres this thing that is the plague of the XX and XXIst century, its what is called "instrumental rationality"... its what was briefly discussed in a scene of Jurassic Park.

"You guys were too busy asking yourselves HOW to ask yourselves WHY? or should we even at all"

When instrumental rationality is set in motion, reason is reduced to a "technos" (or whatever the term is), a mere tool to the hand that guides it... sure we can digitalize and make automated machines to take your fast-food order, and thats very futuristic and cool, nevermind all the employees we fired in the process! PROGRESS!... thus, science is a rational and objective endevour, guided by the drives or emotions of greed and exploitaition.

Besides, science always has this arrogance of being "objective" as if the subject does not exist, allegedly hygienizing subjectivity from the process... but what is deemed worthy of being researched, the objectives of the research, what questions are asked and how the research is conducted, it all can be traced to a subjective will and drive.

The Ego in itself is the psychical entity that embodies rational instrumentality, which is merely a tool of the unconscious Id or the Superego... a rational executioner of irrational drives.
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2507 on: March 20, 2019, 08:45:34 pm »
And that people who insist they are hyper-rational and try to reject emotions are usually just not aware of the emotions involved in their decision making.

Oh, I'm well aware that rejection of emotion can lead counterproductively to pride, and that trying to cancel out passions and attachment with contempt is a hamfisted solution and will never balance correctly, but I don't have a better solution.

Also, I'm not really talking about elimination emotion and concern about emotion entirely, just eliminating it from attempts to determine what is true, or what is viable. Emotion can't tell you about anything other than itself. You can't determine anything about the real world through a priori reasoning

But emotions can be an important part of the determination of truth, the thing is, they cant be taken at face-value and need to be interpreted.

Pure reason can so so so easily degenerate into rationalizations, and the emotions we feel and the emotions we see in others can keep that in check.
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2508 on: March 20, 2019, 08:51:54 pm »
And that people who insist they are hyper-rational and try to reject emotions are usually just not aware of the emotions involved in their decision making.

Oh, I'm well aware that rejection of emotion can lead counterproductively to pride, and that trying to cancel out passions and attachment with contempt is a hamfisted solution and will never balance correctly, but I don't have a better solution.

Also, I'm not really talking about elimination emotion and concern about emotion entirely, just eliminating it from attempts to determine what is true, or what is viable. Emotion can't tell you about anything other than itself. You can't determine anything about the real world through a priori reasoning

But emotions can be an important part of the determination of truth, the thing is, they cant be taken at face-value and need to be interpreted.

Pure reason can so so so easily degenerate into rationalizations, and the emotions we feel and the emotions we see in others can keep that in check.

It almost sounds like all these aspects of ourselves are... actually important? How bizarre.
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2509 on: March 20, 2019, 09:26:55 pm »
And that people who insist they are hyper-rational and try to reject emotions are usually just not aware of the emotions involved in their decision making.

Oh, I'm well aware that rejection of emotion can lead counterproductively to pride, and that trying to cancel out passions and attachment with contempt is a hamfisted solution and will never balance correctly, but I don't have a better solution.

Also, I'm not really talking about elimination emotion and concern about emotion entirely, just eliminating it from attempts to determine what is true, or what is viable. Emotion can't tell you about anything other than itself. You can't determine anything about the real world through a priori reasoning

You

are

not

communicating.
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2510 on: March 20, 2019, 09:55:25 pm »
its what was briefly discussed in a scene of Jurassic Park.

"You guys were too busy asking yourselves HOW to ask yourselves WHY? or should we even at all"

Good god that movie was moronic. Even if we ignore the science making no sense, there's still the more pressing fact that despite Dr.Malcolm's moralizing nothing bad happened there that couldn't happen at a regular zoo with lions and tigers and bears and stuff. It was just an ordinary case of some of the animals getting out and mauling the visitors. It's happened in the San Francisco zoo at least twice

sure we can digitalize and make automated machines to take your fast-food order, and thats very futuristic and cool, nevermind all the employees we fired in the process! PROGRESS!

The these people's suffering isn't technology's fault, it's the fault of an increasingly obsolete economic system that still expects people to work despite the fact that there's less and less work that needs doing
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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2511 on: March 20, 2019, 10:19:27 pm »
its what was briefly discussed in a scene of Jurassic Park.

"You guys were too busy asking yourselves HOW to ask yourselves WHY? or should we even at all"

Good god that movie was moronic. Even if we ignore the science making no sense, there's still the more pressing fact that despite Dr.Malcolm's moralizing nothing bad happened there that couldn't happen at a regular zoo with lions and tigers and bears and stuff. It was just an ordinary case of some of the animals getting out and mauling the visitors. It's happened in the San Francisco zoo at least twice

sure we can digitalize and make automated machines to take your fast-food order, and thats very futuristic and cool, nevermind all the employees we fired in the process! PROGRESS!

The these people's suffering isn't technology's fault, it's the fault of an increasingly obsolete economic system that still expects people to work despite the fact that there's less and less work that needs doing

We're not discussing the merits of Jurassic Park as a film or its veracity, as if i even praised it and wasnt just using it as an easily accessed example of what instrumental rationality is  :lulz: But i guess its a perfect opportunity for you to express your superior aesthetic taste and scientific knowledge that is irrelevant to the conversation? Cant you notice how your narcissistic needs are warping your arguments?

And thats exactly my point, science and rationality are just tools that can be used for "good" or "bad", even considering that these are relative and subjective moral terms.
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2512 on: March 21, 2019, 12:08:05 am »
Hey now Roger, it's not like current day wealth disparities can be directly traced to slavery or anything.  Black people just need to whine less.

But how is anyone that is still alive in any way accountable for that?

Through perpetuating a system where that continues to impact on black people to this day?

None of them are perpetuating slavery though. You're moving the goalposts. I'm not saying that they can't complain about things that are actually still things like unequal sentencing, and police brutality, and employment discrimination. There's definitely still various forms of race discrimination and mistreatment out there but chattel slavery is not one of them and it hasn't been one of them for 150 years. They passed a constitutional amendment banning it, that's the strongest thing that the government can do. There's things they can do against other forms of discrimination, but there's nothing they can do about slavery specifically that hasn't already been done.

40 acres and a mule, as promised.  Plus interest for the years late that it is.  As far as the descendants of slave owners being blameless, if I rob someone, then give the stolen stuff away and shoot myself, does that mean it should not be given back?

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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2513 on: March 21, 2019, 12:10:31 am »
There's definitely still various forms of race discrimination and mistreatment out there but chattel slavery is not one of them and it hasn't been one of them for 150 years. They passed a constitutional amendment banning it, that's the strongest thing that the government can do.
I don't think that "150 years" is quite right.  Convict leasing continued into the 1920s.  It wasn't technically slavery, but there was little practical difference.

The Jim Crow segregation laws were enforced until 1965.  That would be an example of the government actively maintaining black people's status as second class citizens.

Convict leasing actually IS technically slavery.  Slavery was only eliminated for those not convicted of a crime.

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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2514 on: March 21, 2019, 01:22:43 am »
its what was briefly discussed in a scene of Jurassic Park.

"You guys were too busy asking yourselves HOW to ask yourselves WHY? or should we even at all"

Good god that movie was moronic. Even if we ignore the science making no sense, there's still the more pressing fact that despite Dr.Malcolm's moralizing nothing bad happened there that couldn't happen at a regular zoo with lions and tigers and bears and stuff. It was just an ordinary case of some of the animals getting out and mauling the visitors. It's happened in the San Francisco zoo at least twice

sure we can digitalize and make automated machines to take your fast-food order, and thats very futuristic and cool, nevermind all the employees we fired in the process! PROGRESS!

The these people's suffering isn't technology's fault, it's the fault of an increasingly obsolete economic system that still expects people to work despite the fact that there's less and less work that needs doing

I AM GOING TO SHIT MY PANTS.
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(Girl, look at that gross margin)"
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2515 on: March 21, 2019, 12:02:52 pm »
There's definitely still various forms of race discrimination and mistreatment out there but chattel slavery is not one of them and it hasn't been one of them for 150 years. They passed a constitutional amendment banning it, that's the strongest thing that the government can do.
I don't think that "150 years" is quite right.  Convict leasing continued into the 1920s.  It wasn't technically slavery, but there was little practical difference.

The Jim Crow segregation laws were enforced until 1965.  That would be an example of the government actively maintaining black people's status as second class citizens.

Convict leasing actually IS technically slavery.  Slavery was only eliminated for those not convicted of a crime.

Yup. I even provided sources for how it didn’t really end even after convict leasing was outlawed! See below.

There's definitely still various forms of race discrimination and mistreatment out there but chattel slavery is not one of them and it hasn't been one of them for 150 years. They passed a constitutional amendment banning it, that's the strongest thing that the government can do.
I don't think that "150 years" is quite right.  Convict leasing continued into the 1920s.  It wasn't technically slavery, but there was little practical difference.

The Jim Crow segregation laws were enforced until 1965.  That would be an example of the government actively maintaining black people's status as second class citizens.

Fuck convict leasing, prison slavery is a thing to this day. https://mobile.twitter.com/i/moments/866583376265977856?lang=en

https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-prison-labor/

But slavery is over you guys!!! Not the same at all!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Prison_Industries

Equality! So it isn’t racist!

http://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FT_18.01.10_PrisonRaceGaps_2.png


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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2516 on: March 21, 2019, 12:31:54 pm »
Good god that movie was moronic. Even if we ignore the science making no sense, there's still the more pressing fact that despite Dr.Malcolm's moralizing nothing bad happened there that couldn't happen at a regular zoo with lions and tigers and bears and stuff. It was just an ordinary case of some of the animals getting out and mauling the visitors. It's happened in the San Francisco zoo at least twice

And thats why people with sufficient emotion don't put animals in the cages just to look at them. You could also say that it isn't rational, for the risk to humans included, but include the profit motif and suddenly risking human lives becomes perfectly logical.

We need emotion. Lot's of it, and not only in the sanitised prescribed form we feel by staring at screens. How often knowing what's wrong got you up and protesting? At the same time you know that you are just a tiny part of everything and probably what you do won't count anyways. How fucking motivating? At the same time if you feel that there's something wrong, the feeling won't just give up and let you go before you actually DO something about it.

When mind dominates, you end up as a loner. When emotions dominate, you'll likely die for a cause. Get balance and stop being so fucking miserable, because that shit transmits by the internet.
I get trauma from stuff most don't even notice.

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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2517 on: March 21, 2019, 12:33:30 pm »
When mind dominates, you end up as a loner. When emotions dominate, you'll likely die for a cause. Get balance and stop being so fucking miserable, because that shit transmits by the internet.

I am starting to like you.  Imagine how that makes me feel.  :crankey:
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(Girl, look at that gross margin)"
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2518 on: March 21, 2019, 12:37:51 pm »
When mind dominates, you end up as a loner. When emotions dominate, you'll likely die for a cause. Get balance and stop being so fucking miserable, because that shit transmits by the internet.

I am starting to like you.  Imagine how that makes me feel.  :crankey:

I really can't. Here, have a reversed heart emoji 3<
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Re: General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread
« Reply #2519 on: March 21, 2019, 12:44:56 pm »
considering

3<

Resembles a fart, this is right on the money.