Author Topic: RP still not getting it  (Read 17210 times)

xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2016, 10:38:20 pm »
No, please, do detail your objection to snopes. Which bastion of objectivity dislikes them? Zero hedge?

Exactly what I said. Theyre a truth priesthood that people use instead of doing actual research. Literally from a guy who just wrote me a lecture about actually reading source materials and critical thinking "have you considered checking snopes." Nothing Ive posted is factually wrong and he knows this which is why he has yet to even try to prove this. Instead hes just pretending his refusal to draw very basic straightforward conclusions from the info is being a "critical thinker"(reading snopes also makes you a critical thinker).

If this was about anyone who was not sainted none of you would be pretending this is anything but being obtuse. Consider, Im willing to bet none of you doubt the Cosby allegations, which are based on even less evidence than this. Try to imagine someone coming into a thread and defending Cosby with these same arguments(which by the way also apply to the Cosby case.)

Yes Cosby has multiple allegations spanning 50 years. And yes Cosby admitted to getting Qualudes for the women he wanted to have sex with. Nobody is disputing that. However you are extrapolating from that that he is THEREFORE DEFINITELY and INDISPUTABLY a rapist. BTW I went to college and you should read snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/billcosby.asp

The priesthood has spoken. We may never know.

If he really is willing to look at all the evidence(he didnt by the way, he left out New Life's long existing ties to both the Clintons and ties to the human trafficking industry) and come to the conclusion that there is nothing to see here, shit thats just like his opinion man. Its just good to know that the main lesson SMART PEOPLEtm have learned post-Savile/Yewtree is that when powerful people are accused of bad things, multiple times, and hang out with people convicted of bad things on their private island dedicated to bad things we shouldnt jump to conclusions, and we should check snopes.

But obviously such nuanced thinking is lost on me.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2016, 04:06:14 am »
I'll talk to you Ron. I've got nothing to contribute on the subject of politics or political systems but there are plenty of other things to talk about.

How's the weather where you are? What's the tastiest thing you've eaten this week? Have you ever been to see an Opera? When was the last time you climbed a tree? Moore or Connery? Favourite movie of 2016? of all time??? I've heard a rumour that Tupac and Kurt are both still alive and are operating a small jet-ski hire business on an undisclosed Caribbean island. Can you confirm or deny this??? What's your favourite accompaniment to ice cream? Chemistry or Physics? Have you seen my passport? My brother is a grown man but only has size 5 feet, is this something I should mock him for? Would you know of a good method for removing foot stink from trainers? Is this your card? What the hell is behind the green door? Also, again, have you seen my friggin' passport? A few months ago I moved it from it's usual place to somewhere 'safer'. Unfortunately it's new location is so safe that even I don't know where it is. Your help in this matter would be appreciated.

Also also, I don't want to seem like I'm alienating anyone so these questions are open to the rest of the forum as well.

Again, your help would be appreciated, especially with regards to the passport. I mean, it's definitely somewhere in this room but I don't really fancy spending a day emptying all the shelves, cupboards and boxes and looking through every book to try and find that elusive bastard.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #107 on: December 11, 2016, 06:13:43 pm »
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/29/donald-trumps-candidate-for-homeland-security-mich/

Quote
“We certainly hope that Donald Trump would not reward a deceptive pro-amnesty lawmaker like Michael McCaul with a Cabinet position,” said William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC. “That would be very disappointing to all of us that believed his campaign promises to secure our borders and deport millions of illegal immigrants under current U.S. laws.”


Aww, poor baby. It often seems like Trump doesn't really have any specific plans, he's just going from one thing to the next, impulsively making choices and hating Alec Baldwin. However long Trump, or we all, last, it's going to be funny.

So youre all really deadset on this narrative that this guy got into the white house by being an idiot arent you?

Of course not. He got into the White House through a combination of abusing our electoral system and tampering on his behalf by Vladimir Putin.

Moore or Connery?

David Niven for me
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xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2016, 08:08:53 pm »

Of course not. He got into the White House through a combination of abusing our electoral system and tampering on his behalf by Vladimir Putin.


This is gold."He abused the electoral system by winning more electoral votes." The whole point of the electoral system, and THE SENATE(which none of you get made about despite running on the exact same principle) is to keep densely populated states from pushing around the mores sparsely populated ones. Trump won by doing exactly what president Obama did. He actually campaigned in these less populated more backwater areas that had electoral votes he needed. But I guess when Densely populated Urban areas dont decide the election that means the system was "abused."

Hey and you know what all the people pushing "Putin did Trump" have in common? They all pushed Yellowcake Uranium and Saddam did 9/11. Hows that for "fake news."

Again, you have nothing at all to learn from this defeat. You did no thing wrong, even though you lost. It was all that big meanie Putin with his army of hackers on steroids, and that stupid electoral college which has never been a factor in any election ever before this one.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2016, 11:05:37 pm »
You should read snopes brah.



Also Ive been ambivalent about Pizzagate in the past but this is silly:

http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/

They literally show NONE of the emails, Podestas creepy artwork, or spirit cooking.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #110 on: December 12, 2016, 12:44:18 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj60OAh7O5U

Sigh.

So Snopes is wrong because it's not called crosby guilty prior to trial and is asking for substantiated evidence to back up the extraordinary claims relating to the clintons?

Do you get up particularly early to be this stupid? Because those are both pretty reasonable positions.

On the other hand, there's what the CIA are saying re russia/trump.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38282533

Quote
On Friday, CIA officials told US media they had concluded that Russians hackers were trying to help Mr Trump.

Quote
Mr Trump said it might have been Russia but it was impossible to know.
"They have no idea if it's Russia or China or somebody sitting in a bed some place," he said.

Yes, they do donny. It's called research.

Quote
Senior Republicans have now joined Democrats in calling for a full investigation.
Republican Senator John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a joint statement on Sunday with top Democrats that the CIA's report "should alarm every American".

Because this shit can swing both ways, very easily.

Quote
Mr Trump also said in the interview he did not need daily intelligence briefings.
"I'm a smart person, I don't need to be told the same thing in the same way for eight years."

 :lulz:

Quote
Elsewhere in the interview, he said:
"no one really knows" if climate change is real and a decision on the Paris treaty will come quickly


Or

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38273933

Quote
US intelligence agencies believe Russia acted covertly to boost Donald Trump in the election race, US officials have told leading newspapers.
A report in the New York Times says the agencies had "high confidence" about Russian involvement in hacking.
A CIA assessment reported by the Washington Post made similar findings.


Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #111 on: December 12, 2016, 02:21:49 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj60OAh7O5U

Sigh.

So Snopes is wrong because it's not called crosby guilty prior to trial and is asking for substantiated evidence to back up the extraordinary claims relating to the clintons?


I have to give you guys credit. You always find very creative misreadings. My point was that "Read Snopes" guys argument could just as easily be applied to Cosby. Its just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. "Yes we have this long list of evidence for what you are claiming(excludes a large portion of the evidence) but that doesnt INFALLIBLY PROVE what you claim." Its setting a ridiculous standard of evidence that none of you would ever apply in any other context.

And since I know there are a lot of feminists on this board, why does "Listen and Believe" not apply to Bill Clinton?

Quote
On the other hand, there's what the CIA are saying re russia/trump.

This is, absolutely fascinating. In a post Saddam has WMDs, Gary Webb is fake news world suddenly the CIA is a trustworthy source. Not just that, we are suddenly just taking them at their word. Is there a shred of actual evidence to these claims?

From your own source:
Quote
Quoting an unnamed "senior US official", the Washington Post said "intelligence agencies" had "identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and others, including Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman".

So in other words. I know a guy who knows a guy who says Russia did it. Werent you all lecturing me about critical thinking just a page back?

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #112 on: December 12, 2016, 06:02:29 am »

I have to give you guys credit. You always find very creative misreadings. My point was that "Read Snopes" guys argument could just as easily be applied to Cosby. Its just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. "Yes we have this long list of evidence for what you are claiming(excludes a large portion of the evidence) but that doesnt INFALLIBLY PROVE what you claim." Its setting a ridiculous standard of evidence that none of you would ever apply in any other context.

And since I know there are a lot of feminists on this board, why does "Listen and Believe" not apply to Bill Clinton?

Quote

Because evidence. Travelling on a plane with a friend is not equivalent to an admission of using date rape drugs. Standards of evidence apply to what would get you prosecuted and found guilty in law.
And just a quick fyi, i am not a guy, I am an elderly radical feminist academic. A discordian academic - so I'm not comfortable with Sarkeesian's "Listen and Believe". It seems to me that "Trust but Verify" is a much superior position to adopt.

also - I wasn't suggesting that you should mindlessly accept what Snopes or any other source, is telling you but look at the way that construct arguments to reach conclusions. These conclusions are often nuanced not always true or false but many times something inbetween.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #113 on: December 12, 2016, 03:59:26 pm »

I have to give you guys credit. You always find very creative misreadings. My point was that "Read Snopes" guys argument could just as easily be applied to Cosby. Its just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. "Yes we have this long list of evidence for what you are claiming(excludes a large portion of the evidence) but that doesnt INFALLIBLY PROVE what you claim." Its setting a ridiculous standard of evidence that none of you would ever apply in any other context.

And since I know there are a lot of feminists on this board, why does "Listen and Believe" not apply to Bill Clinton?

Quote

Because evidence. Travelling on a plane with a friend is not equivalent to an admission of using date rape drugs. Standards of evidence apply to what would get you prosecuted and found guilty in law.
And just a quick fyi, i am not a guy, I am an elderly radical feminist academic. A discordian academic - so I'm not comfortable with Sarkeesian's "Listen and Believe". It seems to me that "Trust but Verify" is a much superior position to adopt.

also - I wasn't suggesting that you should mindlessly accept what Snopes or any other source, is telling you but look at the way that construct arguments to reach conclusions. These conclusions are often nuanced not always true or false but many times something inbetween.

Life isn't black and white. But that doesn't mean it is grey, it means it is multicoloured, you know?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2016, 04:19:42 pm »

I have to give you guys credit. You always find very creative misreadings. My point was that "Read Snopes" guys argument could just as easily be applied to Cosby. Its just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse. "Yes we have this long list of evidence for what you are claiming(excludes a large portion of the evidence) but that doesnt INFALLIBLY PROVE what you claim." Its setting a ridiculous standard of evidence that none of you would ever apply in any other context.

And since I know there are a lot of feminists on this board, why does "Listen and Believe" not apply to Bill Clinton?

Quote

Because evidence. Travelling on a plane with a friend is not equivalent to an admission of using date rape drugs. Standards of evidence apply to what would get you prosecuted and found guilty in law.
And just a quick fyi, i am not a guy, I am an elderly radical feminist academic. A discordian academic - so I'm not comfortable with Sarkeesian's "Listen and Believe". It seems to me that "Trust but Verify" is a much superior position to adopt.

also - I wasn't suggesting that you should mindlessly accept what Snopes or any other source, is telling you but look at the way that construct arguments to reach conclusions. These conclusions are often nuanced not always true or false but many times something inbetween.

Life isn't black and white. But that doesn't mean it is grey, it means it is multicoloured, you know?

Cosby says that the drugs were taken consensually, to get high. Not to date rape. Him owning date rape drugs does not prove he is a date rapist. So do you think he did it?

And its more than traveling in a plane with a man convicted of owning sex slaves. Consider what it means that he is, in your own words, friends with someone like that. Its traveling in a plane wtih a convicted owner of sex slaves to his orgy island. Combined with years of accusations including one of Epsteins victims. Combined with Hillary Clinton having long existing ties to an organization which was later caught kidnapping children(you insist this was an innocent misunderstanding) which she then went out of her way to bail out and which was defended in court by a man with undisputed connections to the human trafficking industry.

And again. By your standard of evidence Cosby is innocent. All he has are accusations and owning of a drug with completely nonrapey recreational uses.

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2016, 04:22:36 pm »

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2016, 04:24:00 pm »
Also you were all totally skeptical of the Cosby allegations just like you are of Clinton:

At this rate, we should be into Cosby territory by the end of the week. And that really isn't funny or unlikely.

And a very on the nose observation by Nigel:

On a related note, I am finding it fascinating how in the Atheist and Skeptic community, allegations of sexual misconduct by their leaders generates a completely different reaction than allegations of sexual misconduct by religious leaders.

When young men come forward and say that a priest molested them when they were children and that the Church did nothing, that is substantial evidence. When young women come forward and say that a prominent member of the Atheist/Skeptic community molested them when they were drunk and that the convention organizers did nothing, that is hearsay and not enough evidence to reasonably influence whether or not we attend his talk on morality.

Actual quote:

Quote
I'm asking if you have any proof that this actually happened? Michael Shermer been accused of being a rapist on many occasions. That doesn't mean Michael Shermer is actually a rapist.

What I'm saying is that this is a common accusation of something. The links that were posted are also not evidence of anything except people making accusations without evidence.

It's not a fact, and what you all are doing is not educating, it‘s spreading further misinformation. If you have any actual evidence (keeping in mind that wild accusations are not evidence) then I will be happy to change my position.

It's my suspicion that A. these double standards are necessary to protect their sense of superiority and reduce their cognitive dissonance arising from their pure and precious leaders doing the same vile things they've been touting as the sole domain of the religious,
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 04:28:46 pm by xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) »

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2016, 04:32:59 pm »

Of course not. He got into the White House through a combination of abusing our electoral system and tampering on his behalf by Vladimir Putin.


This is gold."He abused the electoral system by winning more electoral votes." The whole point of the electoral system, and THE SENATE(which none of you get made about despite running on the exact same principle) is to keep densely populated states from pushing around the mores sparsely populated ones. Trump won by doing exactly what president Obama did. He actually campaigned in these less populated more backwater areas that had electoral votes he needed. But I guess when Densely populated Urban areas dont decide the election that means the system was "abused."

Excuse me, let me revise that then:

He won because we're not a real democracy
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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2016, 04:35:35 pm »

Of course not. He got into the White House through a combination of abusing our electoral system and tampering on his behalf by Vladimir Putin.


This is gold."He abused the electoral system by winning more electoral votes." The whole point of the electoral system, and THE SENATE(which none of you get made about despite running on the exact same principle) is to keep densely populated states from pushing around the mores sparsely populated ones. Trump won by doing exactly what president Obama did. He actually campaigned in these less populated more backwater areas that had electoral votes he needed. But I guess when Densely populated Urban areas dont decide the election that means the system was "abused."

Excuse me, let me revise that then:

He won because we're not a real democracy

So a world where Florida, California, New York and Texas decide every election is?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 04:38:42 pm by xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) »

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Re: RP still not getting it
« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2016, 04:53:06 pm »
No, please, do detail your objection to snopes. Which bastion of objectivity dislikes them? Zero hedge?

Exactly what I said. Theyre a truth priesthood that people use instead of doing actual research. Literally from a guy who just wrote me a lecture about actually reading source materials and critical thinking "have you considered checking snopes." Nothing Ive posted is factually wrong and he knows this which is why he has yet to even try to prove this. Instead hes just pretending his refusal to draw very basic straightforward conclusions from the info is being a "critical thinker"(reading snopes also makes you a critical thinker).

If this was about anyone who was not sainted none of you would be pretending this is anything but being obtuse. Consider, Im willing to bet none of you doubt the Cosby allegations, which are based on even less evidence than this. Try to imagine someone coming into a thread and defending Cosby with these same arguments(which by the way also apply to the Cosby case.)

Yes Cosby has multiple allegations spanning 50 years. And yes Cosby admitted to getting Qualudes for the women he wanted to have sex with. Nobody is disputing that. However you are extrapolating from that that he is THEREFORE DEFINITELY and INDISPUTABLY a rapist. BTW I went to college and you should read snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/billcosby.asp

The priesthood has spoken. We may never know.

If he really is willing to look at all the evidence(he didnt by the way, he left out New Life's long existing ties to both the Clintons and ties to the human trafficking industry) and come to the conclusion that there is nothing to see here, shit thats just like his opinion man. Its just good to know that the main lesson SMART PEOPLEtm have learned post-Savile/Yewtree is that when powerful people are accused of bad things, multiple times, and hang out with people convicted of bad things on their private island dedicated to bad things we shouldnt jump to conclusions, and we should check snopes.

But obviously such nuanced thinking is lost on me.

I'll give you that the Cosby case certainly isn't proven, I'll give you that (though it doesn't look good)
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He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

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