Author Topic: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff  (Read 15540 times)

Cramulus

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 132086
    • View Profile
    • Cramul.us
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #165 on: November 15, 2018, 03:35:02 pm »
I've hit a wall of some sort... In the work, we call it an "Interval". This refers a point where things might continue forward as planned, or veer off in another direction. The key is to approach the interval consciously, because if you let yourself be steered by circumstance alone, you will end up betraying your original aim. Or maybe you need to drop the original aim, that's the proper way to proceed - you have to make that decision yourself.

The wall is this Movements class. I've been going on Wednesday nights. And I'm finding myself frustrated, it's chewing up my energy and spitting it out undigested. The frustration stems from a few things:

1. The commute. The class is from 9 til 10 PM. At that hour, the trains are only running intermittently, so I've gotta choose.. If I leave my house at 7:45, I can get to the class at about 9:05 PM, missing the first 5 minutes. If I leave the house at 7:00, I get there about 40 minutes early and just have to bum around manhattan in the cold.

And if the class breaks on time, then I can get home by 11:15. Last night, it went like 3 minutes over, resulting in a missed train, resulting in me not getting home until midnight. Now don't get me wrong, I know how to enjoy myself on a commute, got a lot of reading done. But it's really draining my energy to spend basically 2-4 hours (and $25) in commute every week for a 1 hour class.

2. I'm having a lot of trouble following the movements. The instructor will give us a series of motions, and then we do them as a group. Sometimes I can't see or hear the instructions, or didn't get it on the first try. Then, for the next 10 minutes, I'm tripping over myself trying to stay in sync with everybody. The movements are additive, we learn a few, then we add another layer onto them, then we add another layer onto them, until it's this very complex and precise series of motions and rhythms. And if I didn't get the first steps, I just stumble through the rest - it's like a house being built on a weak foundation.

I feel like I'm just not good at it, I'm uncoordinated and have trouble following/remembering each step. Instead of feeling harmonious, in sync with the others both physically and mentally, I'm never getting over the top of the hill to where it feels comfortable. By the end of the class, I don't know if this is how I'm supposed to feel, but I'm drained, exhausted. Not exhausted like "wow, I really worked up a sweat today, got some work done", but exhausted like "that was a lot of effort and I don't think I got anything out of it."

A friend that practices ecstatic dance says that these things aren't about being in sync with the outside world, they're about building a space inside of yourself. I have not been able to build that space.

3. I'm craving an explanation. I mentioned how it seems like they want us to discover / infer / build the meaning ourselves, they are not really telling us a lot about the movements or what they accomplish. And I understand this. Knowledge given to you is not as solid as knowledge you build yourself. But after about 6 classes, I haven't built much. I don't know what these motions accomplish. And I don't think they're going to tell us. How is this "self work"? How does this help consciousness emerge? How is Esoteric Simon Says better than me sitting in a room for an hour doing the limb sensing exercise, or staying present during a conversation?

The weekly meetings, where we talk in a group about our experiments in awareness -- I've found them really helpful, productive, stimulating. I can sense that I am more awake now than I was a year ago. I'm better able to sense the difference between awake and asleep, and have some tools to make myself present.

The sacred movements, on the other hand, have not affected by day to day life. Are they supposed to? Will they, one day? I really don't know. And without some undestanding of what the goal is, I cannot commit to a full year of these classes.

So I'm done. I'm dropping the movement class. It pains me, because it's part of what interested me in the Gurdjieff work to begin with. When I watch the movements, I'm in awe of them. The dancers seem so present, in a higher state of awareness. But I have not had that experience.



As an aside, I'm thinking about some of the stuff I was being careful about in the beginning, like the potential that the Fourth Way is a predatory cult. I haven't talked to my instructor yet about dropping the classes. I do not expect to meet any resistance - last time I mentioned to her that getting to the classes has been a real sacrifice for me, she suggested that maybe it isn't the right year to start.

Hail Eris. I'm focusing on those words right now--they give me power. I told you guys months ago, if I get in too far, Eris will save me.

Eris will allow me to quit, to change gears, to banish with laughter. Eris is the gate to not taking all that shit so seriously, letting it bog me down, letting my identity get twisted around something that isn't nourishing me. Because maybe it's all bullshit, maybe it's just a silly hat I'm trying on as part of a Reality Safari.


In terms of "the interval", maybe this Discordian energy (in particular: curiosity, freedom, self discovery) is what I should embody as I approach the gap.

Doktor Howl

  • Вся ваша база принадлежит нам
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 410774
  • Horrible Bastard
    • View Profile
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #166 on: November 15, 2018, 04:03:59 pm »
I told you guys months ago, if I get in too far, Eris will save me.

I am trying to find one smidgen of text in ANY work about Eris, ancient or contemporary, that would back that statement up.  :lulz:
Well, that's hardly my fault.  I was just doing what I do, doing my little dance, singing my little song, you know?  And then Hirley0 got on the dance floor and said

SHAKE THAT
First ^  Then V

And I did.  I didn't feel like I had any choice.  Between P-Funk and Hirley0, I became the man reptillian menace I am today.

Bootsy Collins did this to me.

Cramulus

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 132086
    • View Profile
    • Cramul.us
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #167 on: November 15, 2018, 04:12:48 pm »
Chao Te Ching Verse 51:

Quote
If you want to be serious,
don't take yourself seriously.
Be open to change,
and bold enough to be the butt of the joke.

When you walk with total certainty,
your head high
like a cosmic schmuck,
you are vulnerable to the old banana peel shtick.

When a schmuck slips,
their face becomes red with embarrassment.
Eris showed them what they did not perceive.
And, be honest, it was funny.

My Discordia's about not taking myself so seriously, being able to turn on a dime, flip the table, laugh at myself, become the next Me.

The self is the messy bedroom. It gets cleaned now and then, but the mess returns. Instead of trying to end the mess forever, Discordia celebrates its return. The precondition for knowledge is ignorance. The jailbreak never ends.


Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 86070
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #168 on: November 15, 2018, 06:07:22 pm »
What you are describing sounds similar to the complaints I've heard from ex-Scientologists about the OTIII lessons onward. It feels like there should be A Payoff, and you're treading water to get there, trying your best to keep yourself receptive to what you've been promised, to do the work inside yourself to make it happen.

That doesn't mean there's nothing there, but you should know that this is usually the point people who stick around for years look back on and go "I really should have known then."
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

Ziegejunge

  • Suffers from occasional lucid moments
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 4181
  • Bitten by a radioactive SPAG
    • View Profile
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #169 on: November 15, 2018, 06:11:14 pm »
I've been all in on your Gurdjieffian journey this entire time, and for what it's worth I believe you are doing the right thing. I do hope you'll consider returning to the Sacred Movements if and when you feel guided that way, but for now I tend to agree with your sentiments, and this one in particular:

"How is Esoteric Simon Says better than me sitting in a room for an hour doing the limb sensing exercise, or staying present during a conversation?"
[emphasis mine]

Maybe it is better; maybe it isn't. Maybe "better" is s subjective ingredient that is obfuscating something objectively important -- but maybe not! Maybe the "better" element is something you will discover someday, or maybe part of your discovery is that exercises like limb sensing and staying present are what you need to progress, making them indeed "better" in some subjective, possibly transient, sense.

Every individual's journey is unique, no matter how flexible and/or all-encompassing a belief system seems to be. I'm glad to see you applying Discordian elements in your approach to the Gurdjieffian path. I personally presume you're better off for it, and that it will ultimately aid your continued personal growth, development, and exploration.

But what do I know?!

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87746
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #170 on: November 15, 2018, 06:41:04 pm »
Quote
But it's really draining my energy to spend basically 2-4 hours (and $25) in commute every week for a 1 hour class.


I think this is a really sensible thing to say.  I think the movements might open up a way of thinking/seeing, but it looks to me like the potential is getting swamped by "IRL stuff". 

You can take up the movements at a time that is more agreeable to your life.  Forcing it like this is bound to lead to frustration and abandonment.

Hoopla!

  • gives people the beeps, and most certainly
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 30639
    • View Profile
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #171 on: November 15, 2018, 06:48:17 pm »
Quote
But it's really draining my energy to spend basically 2-4 hours (and $25) in commute every week for a 1 hour class.


I think this is a really sensible thing to say.  I think the movements might open up a way of thinking/seeing, but it looks to me like the potential is getting swamped by "IRL stuff". 

You can take up the movements at a time that is more agreeable to your life.  Forcing it like this is bound to lead to frustration and abandonment.

Agreed.
“Soon all of us will have special names” — Professor Brian O’Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes" — Walt Whitman

Doktor Howl

  • Вся ваша база принадлежит нам
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 410774
  • Horrible Bastard
    • View Profile
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #172 on: November 15, 2018, 06:55:26 pm »
Chao Te Ching Verse 51:

Quote
If you want to be serious,
don't take yourself seriously.
Be open to change,
and bold enough to be the butt of the joke.

When you walk with total certainty,
your head high
like a cosmic schmuck,
you are vulnerable to the old banana peel shtick.

When a schmuck slips,
their face becomes red with embarrassment.
Eris showed them what they did not perceive.
And, be honest, it was funny.

My Discordia's about not taking myself so seriously, being able to turn on a dime, flip the table, laugh at myself, become the next Me.

The self is the messy bedroom. It gets cleaned now and then, but the mess returns. Instead of trying to end the mess forever, Discordia celebrates its return. The precondition for knowledge is ignorance. The jailbreak never ends.


My Discordia is the whistling noise in my head while I poke the damn penguin, mess with bigfoot, and tell the board the plain facts.  I am not present, I have in fact called in sick for the year so I can watch stupid humans do stupid human things.  My profession is full of horror; if you try to make sense of it, you get brain bubbles.  I just bounce along in the river of chaos.  How could this be anything less than heaven, and mine the work of angels?

Buddhists have that "no mind" thing, which I can appreciate, but I have "no brain."
Well, that's hardly my fault.  I was just doing what I do, doing my little dance, singing my little song, you know?  And then Hirley0 got on the dance floor and said

SHAKE THAT
First ^  Then V

And I did.  I didn't feel like I had any choice.  Between P-Funk and Hirley0, I became the man reptillian menace I am today.

Bootsy Collins did this to me.

chaotic neutral observer

  • An entirely Normal Person, who is Definitely not
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 3546
  • not a real discordian
    • View Profile
Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« Reply #173 on: November 24, 2018, 02:20:56 pm »
Eris will allow me to quit, to change gears, to banish with laughter. Eris is the gate to not taking all that shit so seriously, letting it bog me down, letting my identity get twisted around something that isn't nourishing me. Because maybe it's all bullshit, maybe it's just a silly hat I'm trying on as part of a Reality Safari.
I'm gonna take the person I've been till now
Find the strength to throw it all away
Strip down to nothing at all
Become like a rose petal, blowing free
It took less than a week for this thread to go from “U.S. resistance politics” to “international spray cheese.”  --Brother Mythos