Author Topic: The left and the right  (Read 5077 times)

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2018, 02:12:04 am »
For nobody to believe in any higher power. For no religion in the entire world and all of history to be respected, whether new or old, whether western, eastern, african or other.  For the old traditional and abrahamic values to disappear without anything taking their place. For arbitrary rules of decorum to be eliminated. For the end of sexual norms once and for all. For all cultural norms in the entire world to be eliminated and replaced with nothing. For all distinctions between races, cultures, and ethnicities to be cast down and forgotten. For all gender expression to be eliminated due to all gender specificity of anything (clothing, bathrooms, sports teams, etc.) being eliminated. For the institution of marriage to be eliminated. For all cultures and peoples of the world to be merged into a single superculture.

Also socialized medicine and legal pot, mushrooms, and prostitution and reform of IP law and heavy punitive regulations on many industries
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 02:33:29 am by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2018, 04:13:40 am »
Regarding race and ethnicity what I want to do is take the sameness of order, where everything is pigeonholed into neat little boxes of identical things, and replace it with the sameness of chaos, where absolutely everything has been mixed together and there is no longer any way to un-mix it. The left wants people to be equal and that's a good start, but a lot of them adamantly want to leave it at that. They want races to be equal, but are fine with some things being specific to that race. There are black things, and white things, and asian things, and native a,erican things and at another level there are eastern european things and chinese things and japanese things and french things and american things and german things and so forth and if an asian person or white person does a black thing, or if a white person or black person does an asian thing, or a german person foes a russian thing, or an american does a french thing or whatever they get called out for "cultural appropriation". At most sometimes someone can vhange from one to another but they're not allowed to mix and match however suits them They're equal but they're treated like they're different animals; like they're cows, pigs, and sheep and aren't penned together. I want to get to the point where the cow the pig and the sheep are all the same hotdog. Preferably by friday although I know that's not realistic at this late hour.

EDIT:
And I know that people will say that the different culture specific things reflect the specific history and forebearers of that cultural group, but why should I care about the differences between different piles of old skeletons, (or indeed about anything that happened before 1995 or so that isn't ongoing* - including things that happened to me personally)?

*(EDIT: I'm talking about specifics here. Obviously there are some events in history that were particularly good or bad where it would be helpful to know how they started and stopped so that repeats of the bad things can be avoided and repeats of the good things can be courted; but the specific people, and places are of no consequence, they're just bones and dirt [respectively]; to quote the philosopher Quoheleth "The love, the hate and the envy of the dead have long since vanished; never again will they have any part to play in anything that happens under the sun.")

EDIT: actually, now that I think about it, I suppose the specifics could be useful to screenwriters and novelists
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 05:40:31 am by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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Cramulus

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2018, 01:33:53 pm »
I can see that you recognize the absurdity of the day.
I appreciate you laying it all out. It's romantic.

and you're invoking something higher than left and higher than right, so as to rise above that absurdity and spot some Deseret in the distance where we might all be free. It's worth considering!


Permit me, as a companion on this road, to reflect---


For nobody to believe in any higher power.

For what it's worth

the idea that you're part of something bigger is helpful, spiritually speaking

The idea that you're accountable to something other than yourself
that there is some ideal other than your belly and your pleasure

a lot of the world needs that

I was just listening to a James Comey interview in which he was talking about ethical leadership. He pointed out that if you look at history, the most ethical leaders have some standard, some ideal outside of themselves which keeps them honest. The worst leaders sees themselves as the highest ideal, it's all about the boss.

This goes back to the days of kings - for all the evil that the church did in medieval times, (and there was a LOT of it) one positive takeaway is that they bound the monarch to an ideal. They presented the idea of an ideal and goodly monarch, and while no king in history measured up to that ideal, it probably kept a lot of them from becoming complete fuck cannons.


Quote
For the old traditional and abrahamic values to disappear without anything taking their place.

God, what a nihilistic mess that would be

You throw out the good and the bad, and then how will people behave?

when left to their own devices, people naturally prefer to serve the lower god:
the ego, the belly
the primate urges
the lizard urges
the worm urges


Quote
For the end of sexual norms once and for all. For all cultural norms in the entire world to be eliminated and replaced with nothing.

in this new world, nobody will judge you for being a brony

or a rapist

Quote
For all distinctions between races, cultures, and ethnicities to be cast down and forgotten. For all gender expression to be eliminated due to all gender specificity of anything (clothing, bathrooms, sports teams, etc.) being eliminated. For the institution of marriage to be eliminated. For all cultures and peoples of the world to be merged into a single superculture.

you don't want norms
but you want to eliminate differences

you want individuality
but don't like how a lot of people have chosen to individuate

you don't want diveristy or difference
you prefer to imagine a harmonious monoculture





I think your vision is in self conflict.

You can't have a unifying culture with no norms. What is there to unify around?
You can't have maximum individuality while eliminating individual racial, sexuality, culture.

(culture, by the way, usually grows from the bottom up... somebody starts using slang, the people around them adopt it, fast forward, you've got a new language... people naturally separate and individuate, culture is a fractal and when you lean in real close, there is always a rough edge containing infinite complexity and diversity)


It reminds me of the libertarians that want freedom from government authority
and therefore support corporate tyranny

the bathwater and the baby fly into the wild blue yonder

LMNO

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2018, 02:35:22 pm »
 :barstool:

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2018, 04:30:02 pm »
:barstool:

*watches whole mess sail majestically overhead, goes back to preparing a nice, uncomplicated breakfast*
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

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Ziegejunge

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2018, 06:18:24 pm »
Cram took the words right out of my mouth, and then elaborated on them and constructed them into a far more cogent presentation.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2018, 07:39:25 pm »
Quote
For the end of sexual norms once and for all. For all cultural norms in the entire world to be eliminated and replaced with nothing.

in this new world, nobody will judge you for being a brony

or a rapist


Assaulting and drugging people and forcing people into involuntary servitude would still be frowned upon and illegal. Rapists are human garbage, but are ultimately the same type of human garbage as the rulers of the antebellum south, rather than a seperate category; The primary evil lies not in the fact that it's a sex thing but in the fact that people are being assaulted and forced to do things against their will.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 07:54:22 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2018, 07:47:52 pm »
For nobody to believe in any higher power.

For what it's worth

the idea that you're part of something bigger is helpful, spiritually speaking

The idea that you're accountable to something other than yourself
that there is some ideal other than your belly and your pleasure

a lot of the world needs that

I was just listening to a James Comey interview in which he was talking about ethical leadership. He pointed out that if you look at history, the most ethical leaders have some standard, some ideal outside of themselves which keeps them honest. The worst leaders sees themselves as the highest ideal, it's all about the boss.

This goes back to the days of kings - for all the evil that the church did in medieval times, (and there was a LOT of it) one positive takeaway is that they bound the monarch to an ideal. They presented the idea of an ideal and goodly monarch, and while no king in history measured up to that ideal, it probably kept a lot of them from becoming complete fuck cannons.

That's an appeal to consequences
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

LMNO

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2018, 08:11:49 pm »
:drama1:

Cramulus

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2018, 09:05:38 pm »
Assaulting and drugging people and forcing people into involuntary servitude would still be frowned upon and illegal. Rapists are human garbage, but are ultimately the same type of human garbage as the rulers of the antebellum south, rather than a seperate category; The primary evil lies not in the fact that it's a sex thing but in the fact that people are being assaulted and forced to do things against their will.

That's just the kind of outdated social norm defense that is gonna get you sent to the the reprogramming camp

There's no room in the Golden Sphere of Possibility for your BS 21st century values

get with the program--we're trying to uphold a monoculture here

That's an appeal to consequences

so's nuclear war, and yet....



Cramulus

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2018, 09:15:01 pm »
Why would people who have abandoned "traditional abrahamic values" (whatever that means) spontaneously develop better ones?

What would keep this void of values and identity and tradition from becoming nasty, brutish, and rapey?

Cramulus

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2018, 09:30:41 pm »
I'm reminded of that South Park episode where Cartman wakes up in the distant future

and all religions have been eradicated

and the world is now dominated by warring tribes of atheists



world is full of these misguided ghandis, like
"if we changed this ONE THING about the world, there would be peace and harmony and nobody would get hurt anymore"

"To get to that Utopia, to stop people from forming the wrong values, we have to rip them away from this thing they find meaningful."

"We have to build this new world hegemony consisting of this one kick-ass value system I came up with."


I've heard this song before, you know?


Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2018, 11:58:14 pm »
Why would people who have abandoned "traditional abrahamic values" (whatever that means) spontaneously develop better ones?

They wouldn't, that's the point. They're most likely going to come up with comparably stupid new values
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Doktor Howl

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2018, 03:09:28 am »
For nobody to believe in any higher power. For no religion in the entire world and all of history to be respected, whether new or old, whether western, eastern, african or other.  For the old traditional and abrahamic values to disappear without anything taking their place. For arbitrary rules of decorum to be eliminated. For the end of sexual norms once and for all. For all cultural norms in the entire world to be eliminated and replaced with nothing. For all distinctions between races, cultures, and ethnicities to be cast down and forgotten. For all gender expression to be eliminated due to all gender specificity of anything (clothing, bathrooms, sports teams, etc.) being eliminated. For the institution of marriage to be eliminated. For all cultures and peoples of the world to be merged into a single superculture.

Also socialized medicine and legal pot, mushrooms, and prostitution and reform of IP law and heavy punitive regulations on many industries

So what you want is a bunch of people who believe exactly what you believe, and nothing else.

Any ideas as to how to achieve that?
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" Jonas Salk could SHIT ON MY DESK, and I'd still sing his praises.  No more polio kids in iron lungs or wheelchairs.  Jonas Salk did fucking MAD SCIENCE, and the world is a million times better for it."
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Doktor Howl

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Re: The left and the right
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2018, 03:10:44 am »

That's an appeal to consequences

So is everything.  Everywhere.  Ever.
"Letting a God into your life is like letting "Bob" into your wallet.  It's going to hurt, because they always grab more things that they said they would."
-Some silly dead bastard in Tucson.

" Jonas Salk could SHIT ON MY DESK, and I'd still sing his praises.  No more polio kids in iron lungs or wheelchairs.  Jonas Salk did fucking MAD SCIENCE, and the world is a million times better for it."
- The same dumbass.