News:

To the "allies," if you aren't complicit in my crimes then you are complicit in theirs.

Main Menu

Help

Started by Dimocritus, April 25, 2020, 06:41:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

altered

Quote from: Faust on April 26, 2020, 05:18:01 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.

I got what you were saying, even if the others don't. Yes if the normalisation of that kind of awful behaviour reaches the point where doctors are willing to let a transgender person die, whomever is president doesnt matter a shite.
But what it does do is either slow the slippery slope or allow for the start of a gradual reverse of direction where some of the awful shit Trump has normalised can be gradually undone.

This. I read him perfectly.

Which means dismissing the reduction of the direct impact of this Bad Normal, and by extension the harm done by it, is equivalent to accepting that death is going to happen anyway so why bother trying to save anyone.

It makes a person a monster if they can think that reducing harm is second to getting the opportunity to burn down the system.

Another way I can look at it is to say that clearly, is queers weren't meant to be part of The Good Future which is why us dying before it comes along is okay.

There is absolutely no flattering or pleasant or even slightly shitty interpretation of your position, Elvis. You have dismissed people dying right now for some reason.

This isn't an abstract thing, some trolley problem bullshit. This is right here, right now: don't pull the lever, you kill many many innocent people by proxy, and the system collapses before anyone can even get a game plan to rebuild shit and get the world functioning again. Pull the lever, and some of them will have a chance to save themselves, there's a chance to organize further, some of our institutions might be possible to salvage in appearance if not in function, and we might even have time left over to plan out where the future goes. But by pulling that lever, you delay the collapse of the system.

If you prioritize collapsing the system NOW NOT LATER over saving people, you are a monster in any sane morality.

If you demand the system gets collapsed instead of any attempt made to salvage it, which I can respect the thought process behind, you can buy time and save as many as want to be saved.

Organize mutual aid groups. Focus on housing, healthcare, and finding a place for marginalized, outcast people. Focus on safety and infrastructure, because these will be lost if you let it all burn down, and people will die from poor planning about it.

But if you cannot wait, then do not tell me you aren't a monster. Do not lie to all of us here on this forum to pretend like you are a human being worthy of even such a word as mediocre.

If you are okay with your preferred future killing innocents that could have survived, you are a monster.

At the very least, fucking own it.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Faust

Coming back to the OP isnt going to convincing them to vote for biden over trump, if they are already voting for trump you are unlikely to sway that.
My biggest fear, and it is the likely way that trump will win the election is that he has a bunch of diehard zealots while biden has a charisma void.
What will happen is people who complain about trump,  but they wont register that where it matters on the day.
The single best thing you can do in all this is find the people who say they will vote biden, and make sure they are registered to vote, that they show up on the day.
Because the Cassandra in me says trump will get back into office, not because of his overwhelming voter base, but because the amount who actually got out to vote will be tiny
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.

You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.

No, I remember you saying quite clearly, here or at Scrub, about "giving Trump a chance," then getting butthurt about it (that last part doesn't mean much, you're always butthurt).

Well, he's had his chance.  How's that working out for you?

So no, I do not believe I will accept political advice from you.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 26, 2020, 03:38:00 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.

You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.

Sounds like shoddy MAGA gaslighting and limp-dick grandstanding to me. I'm pretty sure Howl understands you perfectly, now. FUNNY thing is that he even spoke well of you a bit when I expressed what a fuckstick shitnozzle you were to him. You don't deserve the tacit acceptance you have had here. The only thing occasionally amusing about you is a stale comic that has in the past been amusing, but is ultimately just you being unable to let go of some memes used against you years ago.

Get fucked.
I mean that.

Pretty much this.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.

That's one explanation.

The other is that people here genuinely don't like you.
Molon Lube

The Johnny

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.

That's one explanation.

The other is that people here genuinely don't like you.

No, he's right, our collective reading comprehension in the forum is of kindergarden, surely we can't hope to understand what advanced ideas hes desperatly trying to convey to us.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: The Johnny on April 26, 2020, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.

That's one explanation.

The other is that people here genuinely don't like you.

No, he's right, our collective reading comprehension in the forum is of kindergarden, surely we can't hope to understand what advanced ideas hes desperatly trying to convey to us.

Are these even words?? I have no cognition so I can't tell. I get headaches from trying to understand what is even words. Please halp!
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Cramulus


Dimocritus

Sorry I've been away. Losing all fucking sense of time, what with being stuck in a time loop forever and all. I started having conversations with some of my piers (including some self-identifying republicans) and they've gone over better than I thought they would. But, the DNC couldn't make this any more difficult for me, doing things like removing Bernie from the NY primary ballot. No one I know that is a Bernie supporter believes that he has a chance of winning, but removing all opportunities for them to voice their opinions is leaving a real sour taste in their mouths. Is the DNC so spectacularly tone-deaf, or are they intentionally self destructing? I don't really see how it could be anything else. Like, never mind an olive branch for progressives, how about just NOT farting in their cereal and laughing?
HOUSE OF GABCab ~ "caecus plumbum caecus"

Dimocritus

Quote from: Pergamos on April 26, 2020, 12:39:23 AM
The small step part is important, but it's not that voting Biden now will give us the chance to vote for someone better next time, if Biden wins then the real work, protests, strikes, mass movement, will all be much easier and folks will be less likely to be killed doing them.  Voting is nowhere near enough, Biden isnt going to fix anything, but he's going to break less things than Trump and the government was never going to fix things, not even under Sanders.  That's up to the people.

This is similar to the angle I've been working. Voting for Biden is not "voting for the lesser of two evils" and, therefore, voting for evil. It's a strategic move that allows us to regroup.
HOUSE OF GABCab ~ "caecus plumbum caecus"

Dimocritus

#40
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump.  Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.

So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach out to potential voters don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
HOUSE OF GABCab ~ "caecus plumbum caecus"

Dimocritus

Quote from: Faust on April 26, 2020, 11:01:21 AM
Coming back to the OP isnt going to convincing them to vote for biden over trump, if they are already voting for trump you are unlikely to sway that.
My biggest fear, and it is the likely way that trump will win the election is that he has a bunch of diehard zealots while biden has a charisma void.
What will happen is people who complain about trump,  but they wont register that where it matters on the day.
The single best thing you can do in all this is find the people who say they will vote biden, and make sure they are registered to vote, that they show up on the day.
Because the Cassandra in me says trump will get back into office, not because of his overwhelming voter base, but because the amount who actually got out to vote will be tiny

Pretty much this.
HOUSE OF GABCab ~ "caecus plumbum caecus"

Dimocritus

The other thing to keep in mind is that many former Bernie/Warren supporters are very idealistic. Whether you think voting should be based on ideals or not, they believe it is. Convincing someone like that to vote against their ideals is very difficult (I should know, I am one of them) so consideration of the above fact should be taken into account. Remind people that voting is confidential and that no one will know who they voted for. Even the most idealistic will sway a bit when they think no one is watching.
HOUSE OF GABCab ~ "caecus plumbum caecus"

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump.  Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.

So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach to potential voters out don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.

Dude, 4+ years ago, I was called a Nazi and a racist and a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie, and nobody said shit about it.  Not one person, *including* everyone giving me shit now.

But now I have to be nice, because Saint Bernie is involved.

:whack:

No, I don't.  I in fact feel no need to accept political wisdom or moral guidance from PD, because it's nothing but cock and repost hypocrisy all the way down.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:31:06 PM
The other thing to keep in mind is that many former Bernie/Warren supporters are very idealistic.

Sometimes I laugh so hard I shit my pants.

I mean, my choices went Harris, Warren, Sanders, some random asshole, Biden, a lump of Trump's shit, Pete, Gabbard, but I don't want to hear SHIT about idealism on this here forum.  None.  Nada.  No gusta.  Nein.
Molon Lube