Author Topic: Get Out the Violins or A Call For Immediate Violence  (Read 28258 times)

AFK

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Get Out the Violins or A Call For Immediate Violence
« on: August 23, 2005, 06:33:52 pm »
Okay, so I'm watchin the Today Show.  I watch it mostly for the weather and Al Roker's corny jokes.  Damn, they had some scrub in for Al for the weather.  Anyhoo.....

So Lauer is interviewing this guy and his wife.  The guy is a convicted level 1 sex-offender.  They are being interviewed after this piece they just ran about sex-offenders and how some states are strenghening their statutes concerning such offenses.  

So, again, the guy is a level 1 sex-offender.  He was convicted for having sex with a 16-year old.  This guy's in his late 30's so he was definitely doing something he knew was against the law.  So, he and his wife are bitching and moaning because they want to move into a bigger house but are having a "difficult time" because he is registered as a sex-offender.  A level-1 offender apparently is the lesser of the 3 levels.  I think it's along the same lines of the Mary Kay whatever her name is.  Anyway, just by virtue of being a convicted sex-offender he must be registered and so there are limits to where he can live.  (e.g. not near schools, daycares, etc.)  So they are upset with these restrictions.  They feel it is unfair that their life has to be so difficult because of all this.

Well, jeebus christ none of this would have happened if Mr. Creepo would've kept it in his pants.  Holy mother of pearl who gives a fuck about your so-called plight!  You assaulted a 16-year old girl.  Oh, okay so you want a medal for not being Jeffrey Dahmer?  If I were the father of this girl you would be doing a dirt dance with the worms.  You know what the so-called American Dream (if it even exists) is generally reserved for those who don't screw little girls.  It's called dealing with the fucking consequences.  Congratulations, you did your time!  You gave in to your inner demons once.  So society is supposed to take your word that you're not going to do it again?  Nope pal, it doesn't work that way.  That's why you are a registered sex-offender.  So quit your bitchin.  

Oh, by the way.  Stay the hell away from Maine.  Because there's at least one person in this state ready to welcome you with open arms.  I'm thinking a battle-axe and a blowtorch.   :twisted:
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LMNO

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Get Out the Violins or A Call For Immediate Violence
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2005, 06:51:41 pm »
The theory of the penal system is that if you are convicted, you are punished by going to jail, and after your get out, you have "paid your debt to society", and theoretically are not supposed to be judged by being an ex-con.  Then some politician gets the bright idea that federal offenses should ban that person from some government jobs.

and now this.

Look, if you think that child molesters aren't going to be rehabilitated by prison, and that their debt to society is somehow not paid, then why the fuck do they go to prison in the first place? Perhaps rapists, etc should have a mandatory life prison sentance?  or maybe they should be put to death?


Now, I'm not eric-- i'm not advocating that child rape is a good thing.  I'm just asking what appropriate rehabilitation would be.

At what point would you be convinced that a convicted rapist wouldn't re-offend?



::puts on flame-resistant coat::

Zurtok Khan

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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2005, 07:46:57 pm »
Biggest problem is that there is a 0% rehabilitation rate with Pedophiles, if they've done it once they are pretty much certain to do it again as soon as they have the chance (in my opinion we should put their genitals in a plastic shredder...).

Some of the estatual rape stuff is a little bit iffy; some seventeen year olds are mature enough, while some aren't.  But, I don't think I'd change it.

The biggest problem with sexual crimes is that most people who commit them have repeat offenses after leaving prison.
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LMNO

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Get Out the Violins or A Call For Immediate Violence
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2005, 07:50:55 pm »
Quote from: Zurtok Khan

The biggest problem with sexual crimes is that most people who commit them have repeat offenses after leaving prison.


...Which would make the whole notion of treating pedophelia the same as burglury kind of stupid, wouldn't it?

Again, if there's a 0% rehab rate (I think you're exaggerating, but not by much), why put them into the penal system?

AFK

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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 08:07:34 pm »
I'm all for a public hanging.  Perhaps that will "rehabilitate" rapists.  Or at least convince them to just rape themselves and leave other sentient beings alone.
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LMNO

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Get Out the Violins or A Call For Immediate Violence
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2005, 08:09:53 pm »
You're funny, thinking the death penalty has ever prevented crime.

I laugh now.

AFK

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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 08:12:11 pm »
Okay, I just threw that in so it didn't look I just wanted to kill rapists for the sake of killing rapists.  I know it won't really affect anyone else but at least that particular one won't hurt anybody again.  Well, he may poison a couple of worms.
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Horab Fibslager

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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 08:15:09 pm »
it
s a penal system, not a prevental system.
Hell is other people.

AFK

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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 08:20:21 pm »
And actually causing the death of a rapist or sex-offender does prevent that individual from offending again.  You can chemically castrate them but that doesn't affect their mind.  They still have the ability to cause some form of physical harm to another victim.  Nope, off with their head.  Better yet, we should build a new Colliseum and resurrect the Roman sport of feeding them to the lions!
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LMNO

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Get Out the Violins or A Call For Immediate Violence
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 08:28:11 pm »
Did you ever stop to think that the reason that the re-offending rate for sexually based crimes is so low compared to other crimes is because prison is the wrong answer?

Or that there may be ways to ensure a rapist doesn't do it again (other than death), and we are all brainwashed that prison is the only answer to crime?

I know you're just taking the piss at this point, but i sort of want you to try & think this through.

Bella

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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 08:35:56 pm »
Quote from: LMNO
At what point would you be convinced that a convicted rapist wouldn't re-offend?


I, personally, would be much more convinced that a convicted rapist might not offend, than I would be that a convicted pedophile would not re-offend. That's because I feel that pedophilia is often a sexual orientation, while rape is more of a power issue. But then, I'm not convinced that any criminal isn't going to re-offend.  I also feel that the system we have right now isn't working, but  haven't got any workable ideas on how to make it better. Prison obviously isn't the best choice.  In my opinion, the best thing we can do until we find a new system, is continue to make crime a matter of public record and give potential victims and/or their parents the information they need to keep themselves and their families safe.

And as for rehabilitating criminals in prison, the justice system has learned the hard way that this doesn't work unless those released from prison are given tools and/or structure once they get back into society. That's the point of probation and parole, and laws that limit sex offenders from moving to houses in the immediate vicinity of schools. It provides structure and gives the offender a much better chance of success. The whole point of rehabilitation is to help people do better in the future. Which in turn keeps the rest of us safer.


Here are some statistics on sex offenders from the Department of Justice:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#sex

Sex Offenders


* Sex offenders were less likely than non-sex offenders to be rearrested for any offense 43 percent of sex offenders versus 68 percent of non-sex offenders.

* Sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison 5.3 percent of sex offenders versus 1.3 percent of non-sex offenders.

 * On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies; nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.

* The median age of the victims of imprisoned sexual assaulters was less than 13 years old; the median age of rape victims was about 22 years.

* An estimated 24% of those serving time for rape and 19% of those serving time for sexual assault had been on probation or parole at the time of the offense for which they were in State prison in 1991.

* Of the 9,691 male sex offenders released from prisons in 15 States in 1994, 5.3% were rearrested for a new sex crime within 3 years of release.

* Of released sex offenders who allegedly committed another sex crime, 40% perpetrated the new offense within a year or less from their prison discharge.

Child victimizers

* Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.

* Among child molesters released from prison in 1994, 60% had been in prison for molesting a child 13 years old or younger.

* Offenders who had victimized a child were on average 5 years older than the violent offenders who had committed their crimes against adults. Nearly 25% of child victimizers were age 40 or older, but about 10% of the inmates with adult victims fell in that age range.
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LMNO

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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 08:42:40 pm »
Well, zurtok,

Quote from: the stats
Sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison 5.3 percent of sex offenders versus 1.3 percent of non-sex offenders.

* Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.


I stand corrected.  According to these numbers, rather than your 0% rate of "never to rape again", and my "slightly higher", the rate is apparently 94.7% and 96.6% for offenders released who do not re-offend.

I guess our estimates were a little off.

Bella

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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 08:50:20 pm »
Quote from: LMNO
Well, zurtok,

Quote from: the stats
Sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison 5.3 percent of sex offenders versus 1.3 percent of non-sex offenders.

* Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.


I stand corrected.  According to these numbers, rather than your 0% rate of "never to rape again", and my "slightly higher", the rate is apparently 94.7% and 96.6% for offenders released who do not re-offend.

I guess our estimates were a little off.

Yup. But there's more to be taken into account here. The problem with repeat sex-offenders is that they normally have a very high victim to offender ratio. I'm still looking for stats on that, but I learned in victim advocate training that one pedophile may victimize upwards of 200 children during his or her lifetime. Same with serial rapists - although their numbers are lower. So while sex offenders aren't as likely to re-offend, those who do re-offend can do a lot of damage to a lot of people.

This is further compounded by the fact (and again, I'm looking for statistics on this) that while most of those victimized by pedophiles do not become pedophiles, almost without exception, pedophiles were themselves the victim of this crime at some time in their childhood.
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Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 08:53:55 pm »
Quote from: LMNO
Well, zurtok,

Quote from: the stats
Sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison 5.3 percent of sex offenders versus 1.3 percent of non-sex offenders.

* Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.


I stand corrected.  According to these numbers, rather than your 0% rate of "never to rape again", and my "slightly higher", the rate is apparently 94.7% and 96.6% for offenders released who do not re-offend.

I guess our estimates were a little off.


That's just within 3 years and just the ones that were arrested.

Bella

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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2005, 08:59:50 pm »
Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy


That's just within 3 years and just the ones that were arrested.
Exactly. Statistics can only show a small part of the picture and this is a very complicated issue.
just like in a dream
you'll open your mouth to scream
and you won't make a sound

you can't believe your eyes
you can't believe your ears
you can't believe your friends
you can't believe you're here