nothing is real/everything is permitted...

[eighteen buddha strike]

edit: and for anyone who wants to respond with something along the lines of "that's YOUR problem, you stupid American", please tell me what you think the standard of living in YOUR country will be like after America turns into a continent-spanning re-enactment of "Escape From New York"

Its called the dynastic cycle. We're born into this shit, and its only going to get worse. YOU should be able to deal with this better than most people, so dont be surprised if I show up sometime during the apocalypse and apply for membership to your crew. IF that happens, I promise that I will have bloodstained the BloodHammer. I have street cred.

We discordians...

Will kill for food.

[East Coast Hustle]

IF the shit ever actually DOES go down in such dramatic fashion (something I am beginning to suspect will, sadly, never happen), you and your bloody hammer will be most welcome.

ECH,
will be mailing your CDs on Friday, by the way

[LMNO]

I said this in one of the other forums you posted this at, but, as I see it, relativism isn't the hypothesis that all things are ok, but that the either/or dichotomy doesn't really exist.  Things are a mix of good/bad/useful/not useful, usually according to a subjective perception.  It's up to the indiviual to discover what the mix is, and what it means to them, and act appropriately.  


Also, the line was "Nothing is true; everything is permitted."  Not the other way around.

Everyone's opinion is valid at least to them.  After it leaves their brain, it's pretty much fair game to be analyzed and attacked at will.  I can understand why the neo-cons think the way they do (a little), but that doesn't mean I agree with them, or accept their actions as valid.

[East Coast Hustle]

now you're applying relativism to your assessment of my piece on relativism.

ECH,
pretty sure that's the logical equivalent of a double-negative

[LMNO]

Ah, it's all relative anyway.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

I said this in one of the other forums you posted this at, but, as I see it, relativism isn't the hypothesis that all things are ok, but that the either/or dichotomy doesn't really exist.  Things are a mix of good/bad/useful/not useful, usually according to a subjective perception.  It's up to the indiviual to discover what the mix is, and what it means to them, and act appropriately.  

Har, har.
In my experience, pretty much all proponents of relativism really do think everything is okay.

[hooplala]

I said this in one of the other forums you posted this at, but, as I see it, relativism isn't the hypothesis that all things are ok, but that the either/or dichotomy doesn't really exist.  Things are a mix of good/bad/useful/not useful, usually according to a subjective perception.  It's up to the indiviual to discover what the mix is, and what it means to them, and act appropriately.  

Har, har.
In my experience, pretty much all proponents of relativism really do think everything is okay.

Ok in what sense?

[LMNO]

Badger, maybe we're using the term in two different ways... or maybe the term is being misued by fluff bunnies.

Relativism seems to mean that a thing is not completely good, or completely bad, but a blend of the two, depending on the point of view, or how far down the line you want to look.  Just because a mostly bad thing has a few good points to it doesn't mean that it's "equal" to a mostly good thing with some bad points.

For example, Natural Ice beer tastes like shit (bad), but gets you drunk (good), but gives you the shits and a nasty hangover (bad++), but is cheap (good).

That doesn't make it equal to Balvenie 21-year portwood scotch which tastes wonderful (good +++), but is very expensive (bad).

Who are these people who think everything is good, just because nothing is 100% bad?

[nurbldoff]

My idea of (moral) relativism would be the view that there are no universal good/bads, but certain sets of good/bads exist in each context. E.g. death penalty is good in one country, but evil in another country.

To me, that sounds pretty silly when it's used as an ontological moral theory. And outside of that it doesn't seem to have much meaning.

Perhaps nihilism is closer to what I Sabbah was talking about?

[LMNO]

I do find that most people apply moral relativism to other people, and continue blindly believing that their moral stance is, of course, the right one.

Which is bullshit.  Only Fred knows the difference between right & wrong.

[LHX]

Badger, maybe we're using the term in two different ways... or maybe the term is being misued by fluff bunnies.

Relativism seems to mean that a thing is not completely good, or completely bad, but a blend of the two, depending on the point of view, or how far down the line you want to look.  Just because a mostly bad thing has a few good points to it doesn't mean that it's "equal" to a mostly good thing with some bad points.

For example, Natural Ice beer tastes like shit (bad), but gets you drunk (good), but gives you the shits and a nasty hangover (bad++), but is cheap (good).

That doesn't make it equal to Balvenie 21-year portwood scotch which tastes wonderful (good +++), but is very expensive (bad).

Who are these people who think everything is good, just because nothing is 100% bad?

even these scenarios are lacking

judgments of 'good' and 'bad' all eventually lead back to some common denominator

taste
drunkenness
cost

these are all suggestive of something a hell of a lot bigger than the isolated scenarios people run themselves into




relativism is an extension of ignorance
opinions are an extension of ignorance



its possible that 'everything is permitted' is your reason to not hesitate when you are hungry and you see somebody carrying around more than he can eat
even tho it has been suggested to you that certain acts are 'not permitted'




can you imagine a REAL society that placed value on everybodys opinion?
can you imagine living in a place and waiting for input from 6.5 billion people before doing anything?

opinions are dirt

[LMNO]

relativism is an extension of ignorance
opinions are an extension of ignorance

Yes.  But let me repeat, I don't mean "I don't know, so fuck it," I mean "I don't know, but I want to find out."

can you imagine a REAL society that placed value on everybodys opinion?

But that's not what I'm saying.  Your opinion only matters to you.  There's no reason I should care about your opinion, unless it has something to do with me, whether I'm curious about it, or if your opinion happens to be that killing my entire family would be a good idea.

[LHX]

But that's not what I'm saying.  Your opinion only matters to you.  There's no reason I should care about your opinion, unless it has something to do with me, whether I'm curious about it, or if your opinion happens to be that killing my entire family would be a good idea.

this is a very good point

by virtue of this
i motion for an end to all opinions

[LMNO]

Well, that's one opinion....

[LHX]

i wonder what a person would have to do to get rid of their opinions


that seems to be another line between sane and insane




can you imagine that?
to suggest that nothing that comes out of your mouth is an opinion?