mmmmm just about to sit down for a nice meal
perhaps a little candle light to set some warm ambience
for yall meat eaters - maybe a nice rack of lamb wiff a side of veggies
for the non-meat-eaters - maybe a plate of home-made macaroni and cheese, some broccoli on the side
for some - a glass of wine
for others - just water
regardless - you are about to sit down to a pleasant supper, and on your way to sit down, you decide to check the answering machine
and on the answering machine, you find a message from "Them"
They called
and in a pleasant voice, They let you know that They want you to contact Them
well what in the sweet fuck do they want to talk to you about?
naw - you cant find out now - business hours is over
is it good news?
is it ever good news when They contact you?
or perhaps it isnt a message on your answering machine
perhaps it is a letter in the mail -- again polite, and very specific
They require this, this, this, and this
naw - They dont tell you why - They just tell you it is required
do you do that to other people?
would you do that if given the opportunity?
would you upset peoples digestion? and keep something looming on their mind?
do you want to carry the burden of proof everywhere you go?
whod you go with?
how much?
how many?
how long?
when was it?
any given moment with a brief weekend reprieve
when They are out of the office, and the mail doesnt get delivered
the looming threat specialists
keeping you safe and scared
protecting you with cozy blankets of worry
got dam its great to be alive on planet earth
2007 style
That is the thing though. They've made it so good to be alive that there are hardly ever any people willing to die for the truth or any ideal. People will always choose a suffering over death, because no one can get enough of this life.
They have requirements? So do I. We can compromise mutually, or not at all.
that fear-desire loop
its fucked up
once people get trapped in it, then you can move them like chess
just flash that thing they are afraid of (death)
or the thing that they want (attention)
even people that front with the 'holistic' route - they want to be known for what they do -- crave that attention
if i hadnt resolved that the only way out of the system is to go thru it, then these retarded posts would not be showing up on any monitors anywhere
my path up the mountain has been blocked off by a tollbooth
and there is still work to be done
Death and attention. I like it. Holds true, too. I bet you could write for a mastermind character on that principle alone.
Enlightened people are hacks unless they've stopped responding to death and attention.
if people read more about phoenixes rising from the ashes, they might respond to death differently
once people get introduced to the pitfalls of attention ([Rev Rog]more fun than you really wanted[/Rev Rog]), they start responding to that differently too
death/life
attract/repel
Pheonixes- How does that work? It seems serendipitous or like a trick, maybe. How'd that work, from your philisophical perspective?
beats me
egg swallows sperm and KA-BLAOW
Hexagram 63 - everything done (http://www.geocities.com/lhx2k5/ching/hex63.jpg)
Hexagram 64 - everything needs to be done (http://www.geocities.com/lhx2k5/ching/hex64.jpg)
_ _ __
__ _ _
_ _ __
__ _ _
_ _ __
__ _ _
It's a sign.
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 01:02:51 AM
that fear-desire loop
its fucked up
once people get trapped in it, then you can move them like chess
just flash that thing they are afraid of (death)
or the thing that they want (attention)
even people that front with the 'holistic' route - they want to be known for what they do -- crave that attention
if i hadnt resolved that the only way out of the system is to go thru it, then these retarded posts would not be showing up on any monitors anywhere
my path up the mountain has been blocked off by a tollbooth
and there is still work to be done
There's a reason my church is called "The First Church of Last Exit Before Toll".
(http://www.thefourthrail.com/images/reviews/112403/lastexitbeforetoll.jpg)
makes a lot of sense from where im sitting
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 01:13:00 AM
if people read more about phoenixes rising from the ashes, they might respond to death differently
once people get introduced to the pitfalls of attention ([Rev Rog]more fun than you really wanted[/Rev Rog]), they start responding to that differently too
death/life
attract/repel
There is such a drive in society to "live the right life" or "live the successful life" or "to achieve the American Dream"
I believe this to make up a large part of the fear of death.
The fear of how you lived the past stronger than the fear of what is to come after death.
Of course, religion can add other elements to this.
One of the things I actually do believe, even though there is no evidence for it, is that there is probably no life after death. In that sense, it doesn't worry me. I have nothing to fear from what comes after, only the lack of continued living and existing in this world. Obviously there are things I want to do and I can only do those by existing, but I can think of a few cases where its worth dying for.
fear of the unknown has no foundation
it is a flaw
it doesnt make sense
calling back to 'the lie' issue -
that seems to be the main beef i have with most evolution theories - they dont address a flaw such as this
it seems like a box that was opened and a something was unleashed (those parables make more and more sense)
and in the terror - man was driven to technological heights that would otherwise have been impossible
fear of the unknown and striving to achieve illusionary feats
a ill wind
something is rotten
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 10:28:53 PM
fear of the unknown has no foundation
it is a flaw
it doesnt make sense
calling back to 'the lie' issue -
that seems to be the main beef i have with most evolution theories - they dont address a flaw such as this
it seems like a box that was opened and a something was unleashed (those parables make more and more sense)
and in the terror - man was driven to technological heights that would otherwise have been impossible
fear of the unknown and striving to achieve illusionary feats
a ill wind
something is rotten
Except it DOES have a foundation. Because for early humans what was unknown was also often dangerous, and not in a psychological "tearing down walls" way, but in a physical "killed and eated" way. What was unknown, what might be hiding behind that bush, waiting in that tree, could be the death of you. And for life to survive and evolve, it has to be programed to avoid death. Otherwise there wouldn't been any living things. Get it?
However, for a large part we have outgrown this fear.
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 10:28:53 PMfear of the unknown has no foundation
it is a flaw
it doesnt make sense
calling back to 'the lie' issue -
that seems to be the main beef i have with most evolution theories - they dont address a flaw such as this
a flaw?
Quoteit seems like a box that was opened and a something was unleashed (those parables make more and more sense)
and in the terror - man was driven to technological heights that would otherwise have been impossible
why?
i really still don't get where you are trying to go with this "lie" stuff. the advantages are there, the ways to accidentally stumble upon the concept are also there. keep in mind we're talking about tens of thousands of <i>generations</i>. even a monkey could figure it out.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 09, 2007, 10:33:17 PM
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 10:28:53 PM
fear of the unknown has no foundation
it is a flaw
it doesnt make sense
calling back to 'the lie' issue -
that seems to be the main beef i have with most evolution theories - they dont address a flaw such as this
it seems like a box that was opened and a something was unleashed (those parables make more and more sense)
and in the terror - man was driven to technological heights that would otherwise have been impossible
fear of the unknown and striving to achieve illusionary feats
a ill wind
something is rotten
Except it DOES have a foundation. Because for early humans what was unknown was also often dangerous, and not in a psychological "tearing down walls" way, but in a physical "killed and eated" way. What was unknown, what might be hiding behind that bush, waiting in that tree, could be the death of you. And for life to survive and evolve, it has to be programed to avoid death. Otherwise there wouldn't been any living things. Get it?
However, for a large part we have outgrown this fear.
Of course, the unknown always holds the promise of something better too. From the mysterious new world to nanotech, the unknown is an opportunity, nothing more or less.
Not the promise of, just the possibility for the opportunity of. And maybe dangerous as well.
Hiroshima/Nagasaki, anyone?
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 09, 2007, 10:33:17 PM
Except it DOES have a foundation. Because for early humans what was unknown was also often dangerous, and not in a psychological "tearing down walls" way, but in a physical "killed and eated" way. What was unknown, what might be hiding behind that bush, waiting in that tree, could be the death of you. And for life to survive and evolve, it has to be programed to avoid death. Otherwise there wouldn't been any living things. Get it?
However, for a large part we have outgrown this fear.
from what i gather - people / things draw back from pain
but this fear of death seems to be something different
i agree that it took that fear to push man to the heights of technology (worldwide communications) and depths of suffering (poverty, unfulfillment, inequality, lack of freedom, etc that he has gotten to
kids dont understand 'a universe without them in it' at first, because (at root) its bullshit and it takes a lot of explaining
Quote from: triple zero on January 09, 2007, 10:38:35 PM
why?
i really still don't get where you are trying to go with this "lie" stuff. the advantages are there, the ways to accidentally stumble upon the concept are also there. keep in mind we're talking about tens of thousands of <i>generations</i>. even a monkey could figure it out.
yeah - my hunch is that it
was accidentally stumbled upon - but it was
intentionally put into use
Quote from: Cain on January 09, 2007, 10:43:16 PM
Of course, the unknown always holds the promise of something better too. From the mysterious new world to nanotech, the unknown is an opportunity, nothing more or less.
thats not a popular gamble tho - like if you took a poll of people, not many would choose the unknown and unexplored
it takes a
real bad situation - one where any change would be a welcome change from the current experience
if you are in a situation thats almost intolerable - what would be the drawback of leaping into the unknown?
A physical need could turn into a psychological condition in post-sentience evolution.
It could become more than just avoiding pain, it could become avoiding death as well.
Though, I would say that avoiding death would have evolved first. Do trees feel pain? No, but their processes indicate a teleos which tries to avoid death.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 09, 2007, 10:56:25 PM
Though, I would say that avoiding death would have evolved first. Do trees feel pain? No, but their processes indicate a teleos which tries to avoid death.
got dam that shit is fascinating
QuoteA physical need could turn into a psychological condition in post-sentience evolution.
It could become more than just avoiding pain, it could become avoiding death as well.
that makes sense
and once it is known that things move in a way to avoid death, there is the observation that one can use that fear of death as a penalty, and apply pressure / suffering
if the penalty for disobedience is that thing that you are afraid of, then guess who is gonna obey?
the math is basic at that point
good eye Monk
good eye
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: triple zero on January 09, 2007, 10:38:35 PM
why?
i really still don't get where you are trying to go with this "lie" stuff. the advantages are there, the ways to accidentally stumble upon the concept are also there. keep in mind we're talking about tens of thousands of <i>generations</i>. even a monkey could figure it out.
yeah - my hunch is that it was accidentally stumbled upon - but it was intentionally put into use
but of course.
i told you before, in order to observe the advantage, and then to put telling a lie to use, you need a certain amount of self-reflection. you can't get that without consciousness.
mmm i'm just going on a limb here, ok? let's say telling lies is advantageous to an individual. in order to tell better and better lies, one needs to
develop the consciousness.
could it be?
man
this attempt to re-construct history is fun
i think i see what you are saying
consciousness is necessary to lie
-- i dont really know what you mean by that second part tho
Quote from: LHX on January 09, 2007, 10:28:53 PM
fear of the unknown has no foundation
it is a flaw
it doesnt make sense
I agree with this, though, it may be from a splitting hairs perspective.
In a way, isn't it really fear of the known happening at an unexpected time.
And moreover, this fear of the unknown is basically a rest area on the interstate to the fear of death.
Actually, I think that is a bigger flaw really. Because it is a fear of something inevitable. Something I've never really understood, from a personal point of view. I don't fear death. It's going to happen. It may happen 20 years from now, it may happen 40 years from now. Hell, I could get hit by a bus when I leave work today.
And this fear has definitely been fuel for technological innovation, especially in medicine. At the same time, though, I think it has increased human suffering. Longer lives has lead to more people getting cancer. I often wonder sometimes if human innovation is outpacing human physiological evolution (assuming it exists).
Fear of the unknown/fear of death seems to me to be closely associated with fear of change/attachment to status quo. That's the one thing that's fucking up the human race more than anything, this whole "better the devil you know" bullshit. Newsflash - the devil you know is still the fucking devil!
The best way to deal with fear of death is to face it, climb a mountain, drive a fast car, do something reckless. Sooner or later you're going to find yourself in that golden place that adrenaline junkies live for, where you're staring death in the face. There's no rush comes close and there's absofuckinglutely nothing more liberating. Sure there's every chance it might kill ya but, if it doesn't, you'll come to realise that that's not really as important as it was back when you were scared of death.
Quote from: SillyCybin on January 10, 2007, 02:47:48 PM
Fear of the unknown/fear of death seems to me to be closely associated with fear of change/attachment to status quo. That's the one thing that's fucking up the human race more than anything, this whole "better the devil you know" bullshit. Newsflash - the devil you know is still the fucking devil!
The best way to deal with fear of death is to face it, climb a mountain, drive a fast car, do something reckless. Sooner or later you're going to find yourself in that golden place that adrenaline junkies live for, where you're staring death in the face. There's no rush comes close and there's absofuckinglutely nothing more liberating. Sure there's every chance it might kill ya but, if it doesn't, you'll come to realise that that's not really as important as it was back when you were scared of death.
But the fear of death is still there. Thats why they do it, because they fear death and because the fear is exilarating for them. They still fear death, but they choose to face it.
I don't think there are many people who truly do not fear death. Thats a massive psychological program to stop.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 10, 2007, 04:14:17 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on January 10, 2007, 02:47:48 PM
Fear of the unknown/fear of death seems to me to be closely associated with fear of change/attachment to status quo. That's the one thing that's fucking up the human race more than anything, this whole "better the devil you know" bullshit. Newsflash - the devil you know is still the fucking devil!
The best way to deal with fear of death is to face it, climb a mountain, drive a fast car, do something reckless. Sooner or later you're going to find yourself in that golden place that adrenaline junkies live for, where you're staring death in the face. There's no rush comes close and there's absofuckinglutely nothing more liberating. Sure there's every chance it might kill ya but, if it doesn't, you'll come to realise that that's not really as important as it was back when you were scared of death.
But the fear of death is still there. Thats why they do it, because they fear death and because the fear is exilarating for them. They still fear death, but they choose to face it.
I don't think there are many people who truly do not fear death. Thats a massive psychological program to stop.
You're dealing with two different things here
1) The immediate physiological response to impending danger
2) The crippling psychological constraint of obsession
I enjoy no 1 occasionally, however I have no problems with no 2
example - I fall off a cliff and its pretty much a foregone conclusion that I aint surviving the fall, two things will happen: I'll think "wow! so this is when I die", at the same time my body will probably shit itself.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 10, 2007, 04:14:17 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on January 10, 2007, 02:47:48 PM
Fear of the unknown/fear of death seems to me to be closely associated with fear of change/attachment to status quo. That's the one thing that's fucking up the human race more than anything, this whole "better the devil you know" bullshit. Newsflash - the devil you know is still the fucking devil!
The best way to deal with fear of death is to face it, climb a mountain, drive a fast car, do something reckless. Sooner or later you're going to find yourself in that golden place that adrenaline junkies live for, where you're staring death in the face. There's no rush comes close and there's absofuckinglutely nothing more liberating. Sure there's every chance it might kill ya but, if it doesn't, you'll come to realise that that's not really as important as it was back when you were scared of death.
But the fear of death is still there. Thats why they do it, because they fear death and because the fear is exilarating for them. They still fear death, but they choose to face it.
I don't think there are many people who truly do not fear death. Thats a massive psychological program to stop.
I believe this too...and the only way to test it is to put them in a near-death experience and see how they react.
Quote from: Hagakure
Above all, the Way of the Samurai should be in being aware that you do not know what is going to happen next, and in querying every item day and night. Victory and defeat are matters of the temporary force of circumstances. The way of avoiding shame is different. It is simply in death.
Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.
Hagakure FTW.
Quote from: LHX on January 10, 2007, 05:19:35 PM
Quote from: Hagakure
Above all, the Way of the Samurai should be in being aware that you do not know what is going to happen next, and in querying every item day and night. Victory and defeat are matters of the temporary force of circumstances. The way of avoiding shame is different. It is simply in death.
Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.
I always loved that quote.
I'm goanna go practice some 'waking up' out in the back yard.
Man, I'm rusty with dual wielding swords.
About evolution, it IS A LIE! Not that creationism is true, but that the best we can do at understanding events we cannot perceive directly is approximate them via science (which may or may not be the greatest thing conceived since Jesus). Take any measurement in any scientific model and you will have an irrational number. If you come up with 4302894/123089333, I will say, "Get a better ruler." Why is this so? Because reality doesn't conform to stupid rules invented by humans 1000's of years ago.
So, yeah! There you have it! I'm gonna pass out now!
Quote from: nihilisticle on January 13, 2007, 07:25:42 AM
About evolution, it IS A LIE! 
You got me.
I planted all those fossils. As a joke.
Quote from: nihilisticle on January 13, 2007, 07:25:42 AM
Because reality doesn't conform to stupid rules invented by humans 1000's of years ago.
Reality IS a bunch of stupid rules invented by humans 1000's of years ago. Enjoy it.
Quote from: nihilisticle on January 13, 2007, 07:25:42 AM
About evolution, it IS A LIE!  Not that creationism is true, but that the best we can do at understanding events we cannot perceive directly is approximate them via science (which may or may not be the greatest thing conceived since Jesus).  Take any measurement in any scientific model and you will have an irrational number.   If you come up with 4302894/123089333, I will say, "Get a better ruler."  Why is this so?  Because reality doesn't conform to stupid rules invented by humans 1000's of years ago.
So, yeah!  There you have it!  I'm gonna pass out now!
Darwin pwned us all
What a fucking bastard
Quote from: LHX on January 10, 2007, 02:58:59 AM
man
this attempt to re-construct history is fun
i think i see what you are saying
consciousness is necessary to lie
-- i dont really know what you mean by that second part tho
Man is not the only animal adept at lying.
Many animals use camoflage as their survival mechanism.Whether hunting or avoiding being hunted,camoflage is an attempt to fool those around you by being seeming to be something that you are not.
Quote from: Verthaine on January 16, 2007, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: LHX on January 10, 2007, 02:58:59 AM
man
this attempt to re-construct history is fun
i think i see what you are saying
consciousness is necessary to lie
-- i dont really know what you mean by that second part tho
Man is not the only animal adept at lying.
Many animals use camoflage as their survival mechanism.Whether hunting or avoiding being hunted,camoflage is an attempt to fool those around you by being seeming to be something that you are not.
Its not deliberate though. Its an adaptation by natural selection. Lying is a deliberate action to decieve. There is no deliberate act to decieve involved in natural selection process. If something works, then it is continued. If it doesn't, it is eventually discontued. If its not beneficial or detrimental it may be either retained or lost.
I believe chimps and dolphins have been observed to lie, deliberately. But thats it.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 16, 2007, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Verthaine on January 16, 2007, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: LHX on January 10, 2007, 02:58:59 AM
man
this attempt to re-construct history is fun
i think i see what you are saying
consciousness is necessary to lie
-- i dont really know what you mean by that second part tho
Man is not the only animal adept at lying.
Many animals use camoflage as their survival mechanism.Whether hunting or avoiding being hunted,camoflage is an attempt to fool those around you by being seeming to be something that you are not.
Its not deliberate though. Its an adaptation by natural selection. Lying is a deliberate action to decieve. There is no deliberate act to decieve involved in natural selection process. If something works, then it is continued. If it doesn't, it is eventually discontued. If its not beneficial or detrimental it may be either retained or lost.
An octopus has to see,or sense in some way,a hungry shark approaching before it can activate it's camoflague abilities.
The octopus has to decide whether the thing that is approaching it is a potentially dangerous predetor or a potential mate on a fundemental level.That makes it a deliberate action.
many animals will try to make themselves look bigger to scare of predetors.
Animals may not think
like man,but that doesn't mean they can't think at all.
Lying in humans is an adaption of natural selection also.
Quote from: Cain on January 16, 2007, 09:53:27 PM
I believe chimps and dolphins have been observed to lie, deliberately.  But thats it.
How can a dolphin lie and, more importantly, how can anyone tell?
Quote from: Verthaine on January 17, 2007, 06:29:08 AM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on January 16, 2007, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Verthaine on January 16, 2007, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: LHX on January 10, 2007, 02:58:59 AM
man
this attempt to re-construct history is fun
i think i see what you are saying
consciousness is necessary to lie
-- i dont really know what you mean by that second part tho
Man is not the only animal adept at lying.
Many animals use camoflage as their survival mechanism.Whether hunting or avoiding being hunted,camoflage is an attempt to fool those around you by being seeming to be something that you are not.
Its not deliberate though. Its an adaptation by natural selection. Lying is a deliberate action to decieve. There is no deliberate act to decieve involved in natural selection process. If something works, then it is continued. If it doesn't, it is eventually discontued. If its not beneficial or detrimental it may be either retained or lost.
An octopus has to see,or sense in some way,a hungry shark approaching before it can activate it's camoflague abilities.
The octopus has to decide whether the thing that is approaching it is a potentially dangerous predetor or a potential mate on a fundemental level.That makes it a deliberate action.
many animals will try to make themselves look bigger to scare of predetors.
Animals may not think like man,but that doesn't mean they can't think at all.
Lying in humans is an adaption of natural selection also.
it seems that a difference arises when it comes to man's ability to make up words for things that either dont exist or cannot be seen with the physical eye
animals deceive to attract and repel
the lies that man tell seem to be some next-level shit
lying may not be an adaptation, but just a extra tool that comes along with whatever difference our intelligence/'consciousness' has from that of animals
If lying were an adaptation, and it was favorable to human survival, would then could we assume that eventually all honest humans will eventually be extinct? Or, maybe a more appropriate question, is there such a thing as an honest human?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 17, 2007, 02:34:15 PM
If lying were an adaptation, and it was favorable to human survival, would then could we assume that eventually all honest humans will eventually be extinct? Or, maybe a more appropriate question, is there such a thing as an honest human?
And if they claim to be honest, they are probably lying to themselves.
I've never met a completely honest human.
I find it doubtful they exist.
[quote="nihilisticle]Take any measurement in any scientific model and you will have an irrational number. If you come up with 4302894/123089333, I will say, "Get a better ruler." Why is this so? Because reality doesn't conform to stupid rules invented by humans 1000's of years ago.[/quote]
fuck that, irrational numbers are invented by stupid rules invented by humans 1000s (well, not 1000s, less even) of years ago.
you point me to the square root of two in nature, and i'll tell you "LOOK CLOSER".
irrational numbers only exist on paper, in our minds. Pi doesn't exist. Pi up to 51 decimals is enough to calculate the circumference of the known universe accurate up to the proton.
show me Pi, show the the square root of two, show me the real Golden Mean. you can approach them pretty close, but not arbitrarely so, and they'll always be rational.
sorry dude, irrational numbers are nice to work with on paper, but they don't really exist.
[quote="verthaine"]Man is not the only animal adept at lying.
Many animals use camoflage as their survival mechanism.Whether hunting or avoiding being hunted,camoflage is an attempt to fool those around you by being seeming to be something that you are not.[/quote]
yea i thought this as well at first, but there's a difference between camouflage/mimicry and actual lying. the first one is developed on a generation-by-generation basis, because of natural selection. you either get born with camouflage or you don't, there's no choice about it.
actually telling a lie, is something you can develop/do in your own lifetime. and you can either do it or not. or you can do it a few times and decide not to do it anymore.
the octopus's camouflage is just a reaction to "i need to hide", then activating its camouflage skin colouring thing that it does.
chimps and dolphins can lie as well, because they also have self-consciousness (both chimps and dolphins can recognize their appearance in a mirror, as opposed to octopii afaik)
> Animals may not think like man,but that doesn't mean they can't
> think at all.
yes, except that you can draw distinctions in levels of thinking. there's instinct: simple reactions to the environment, consciousness (like a dog feeling pain or emotions at being left alone) and self-consciousness (thinking about oneself, recognizing yourself in a mirror, displaying targeted creative search for solutions, lying, thinking about what others might be thinking)
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 17, 2007, 02:34:15 PM
If lying were an adaptation, and it was favorable to human survival, would then could we assume that eventually all honest humans will eventually be extinct? Or, maybe a more appropriate question, is there such a thing as an honest human?
it seems that after a certain climax, lying becomes a trait that is counter-survival
honest is the easiest thing to be
it takes a lot of time and attention to perpetuate a lie and avoid being exposed
in a environment that isnt protected by laws, what defense does a exposed liar have against the 'elements'?
Quote from: triple zero on January 17, 2007, 02:57:19 PM
yea i thought this as well at first, but there's a difference between camouflage/mimicry and actual lying. the first one is developed on a generation-by-generation basis, because of natural selection. you either get born with camouflage or you don't, there's no choice about it.
actually telling a lie, is something you can develop/do in your own lifetime. and you can either do it or not. or you can do it a few times and decide not to do it anymore.
intense
nice summary
Yeah, nice summary 000. Much better than my convoluted statement.
bump. But this is a good one and a good discussion that followed. Also contains some of the "lie" discussions Kai mentioned in one of the other old threads.