Too long has spirituality blinded the meek and gullible. It is worse than pooping your pants, because you need more than a diaper to wipe clean the damage people have done because of it. Too long has the raunchy stench of superstitious beliefs of popular cults inflamed my nostrils and stimulated my gag reflex. I find it vomitous that people would insist in the existence of the paranormal. You do it, I know you do. I hate that shit. Somewhere in your thoughts lies the hard-headed hope that there's some higher power waiting to tell you what a good job you've done, or whatever recognition you're expecting that won't come. It makes me sick to my guts that people assume it so easily. Because you're AFRAAAID. Scared to shitting yourself silly that there's no big authority watching everything and making it all happen in some mysteriously justified fashion. It simply isn't so. Religion falls right apart under scrutiny, and the only people who ever believed it completely never cared to check.
I'm a fucking APE, and so are all of you! Hahahaa!! Religion is shit!
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 03:15:29 AM
Too long has spirituality blinded the meek and gullible. It is worse than pooping your pants, because you need more than a diaper to wipe clean the damage people have done because of it. Too long has the raunchy stench of superstitious beliefs of popular cults inflamed my nostrils and stimulated my gag reflex. I find it vomitous that people would insist in the existence of the paranormal. You do it, I know you do. I hate that shit. Somewhere in your thoughts lies the hard-headed hope that there's some higher power waiting to tell you what a good job you've done, or whatever recognition you're expecting that won't come. It makes me sick to my guts that people assume it so easily. Because you're AFRAAAID. Scared to shitting yourself silly that there's no big authority watching everything and making it all happen in some mysteriously justified fashion. It simply isn't so. Religion falls right apart under scrutiny, and the only people who ever believed it completely never cared to check.
I'm a fucking APE, and so are all of you! Hahahaa!! Religion is shit!
Religion is
lucrative.
Har har...
*cue hollow laughter*
My only hope is that it becomes very unfashionable.
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 03:48:51 AM
My only hope is that it becomes very unfashionable.
Why?
Are you on one of those "we have to save the humans" kicks?
Not really, I just find it more rewarding to kill ideaologies than people.
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
It'd just be the same shit if we didn't have it.
Except we'd be worshipping the "Powers that Be"
Oh wait...
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
I can't consider myself an ape,
Neither can the rest of the humans.
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 03:54:40 AM
Not really, I just find it more rewarding to kill ideaologies than people.
I find it more rewarding to make ideologies reward me.
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
Paranormal occurrences are never proven. Find one example of anything spiritual being backed with reputable hard evidence, and I'll delete this rant consider a spirituality.
What the fuck is a "science of the mental"?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:26:37 AM
What the fuck is a "science of the mental"?
My favorite new catchphrase, that's what. :lulz:
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 04:22:46 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
Paranormal occurrences are never proven. Find one example of anything spiritual being backed with reputable hard evidence, and I'll delete this rant consider a spirituality.
What about that toasted cheese sandwich that had the Virgin Mary's face on it?
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 04:22:46 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
Paranormal occurrences are never proven. Find one example of anything spiritual being backed with reputable hard evidence, and I'll delete this rant consider a spirituality.
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 04:35:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:26:37 AM
What the fuck is a "science of the mental"?
My favorite new catchphrase, that's what. :lulz:
:lulz:
I saw it first!
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:35:48 AM
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 04:22:46 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
Paranormal occurrences are never proven. Find one example of anything spiritual being backed with reputable hard evidence, and I'll delete this rant consider a spirituality.
What about that toasted cheese sandwich that had the Virgin Mary's face on it?
Its called Pareidolia, and it works using the face recognition part of the brain. We deal so much with faces that we subconciously look for anything with "similar" "characteristics" in any thing, and any object. Its the whole recognition system of the body.
Dude, haven't you ever looked for shapes in clouds? Same thing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I don't think there's anything "paranormal" about meditation.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
"Many times..." apparently.
It's an accredited university.
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:45:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I don't think there's anything "paranormal" about meditation.
I do.
I get cranky when I don't "meditate". :lulz:
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:45:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
"Many times..." apparently.
It's an accredited university.
So is the McDonald's management school.
But I don't trust them to do medical studies, either.
Besides, as has been pointed out, "meditation" isn't paranormal in the least. It's just "relaxing really hard".
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:47:12 AM
BMW: "Its called Pareidolia, and it works using the face recognition part of the brain. We deal so much with faces that we subconciously look for anything with "similar" "characteristics" in any thing, and any object. Its the whole recognition system of the body.
Dude, haven't you ever looked for shapes in clouds? Same thing."
Dude? :lulz:
D/N/T BMW on these things.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I could dig up sources showing that meditation has a positive effect on stress. I could also dig up sources that show tibetan monks having the physiologic ability to increase their body temperature to the point where they can dry freezing wet robes draped over them.
Neither of those things have to do with religion though, and certainly nothing paranormal. Its all very powerful psychosomatic responce. Very interesting, and very useful, and also very physical in its evidence. No paranormal shit here.
Spirituality is just the art of making shit disappear by slamming the door in their face.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 04:43:23 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:35:48 AM
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 04:22:46 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
Paranormal occurrences are never proven. Find one example of anything spiritual being backed with reputable hard evidence, and I'll delete this rant consider a spirituality.
What about that toasted cheese sandwich that had the Virgin Mary's face on it?
Its called Pareidolia, and it works using the face recognition part of the brain. We deal so much with faces that we subconciously look for anything with "similar" "characteristics" in any thing, and any object. Its the whole recognition system of the body.
Dude, haven't you ever looked for shapes in clouds? Same thing.
OK, pareidoia explains the face in the sandwich.
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:51:06 AM
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
(http://www.norelpref.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vintagebob.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:52:25 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:51:06 AM
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
(http://www.norelpref.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vintagebob.jpg)
:potd:
Fuckin swote!
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 04:48:52 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I could dig up sources showing that meditation has a positive effect on stress. I could also dig up sources that show tibetan monks having the physiologic ability to increase their body temperature to the point where they can dry freezing wet robes draped over them.
Neither of those things have to do with religion though, and certainly nothing paranormal. Its all very powerful psychosomatic responce. Very interesting, and very useful, and also very physical in its evidence. No paranormal shit here.
Paranormal ≠ spiritual.
Paranormal = religion.
I think it's an important distinction.
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:56:46 AM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 04:48:52 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I could dig up sources showing that meditation has a positive effect on stress. I could also dig up sources that show tibetan monks having the physiologic ability to increase their body temperature to the point where they can dry freezing wet robes draped over them.
Neither of those things have to do with religion though, and certainly nothing paranormal. Its all very powerful psychosomatic responce. Very interesting, and very useful, and also very physical in its evidence. No paranormal shit here.
Paranormal ≠ spiritual.
Paranormal = religion.
I think it's an important distinction.
Hey...how did you get the not-equals sign? Alt + what?
Equals?
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 05:00:21 AM
Equals?
I pulled a double shift last night, sir.
Please to not be giving me any shit, and to be answering the question.
Thanks.
TGRR,
Just used up the last of his happy thoughts.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 05:01:49 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 05:00:21 AM
Equals?
I pulled a double shift last night, sir.
Please to not be giving me any shit, and to be answering the question.
Thanks.
TGRR,
Just used up the last of his happy thoughts.
:lulz:
That was the answer.
ALT
+
(+=) key
=
≠
Fuck that's confusing to communicate.
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 05:05:25 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 05:01:49 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 05:00:21 AM
Equals?
I pulled a double shift last night, sir.
Please to not be giving me any shit, and to be answering the question.
Thanks.
TGRR,
Just used up the last of his happy thoughts.
:lulz:
That was the answer.
ALT
+
(+=) key
=
≠
Fuck that's confusing to communicate.
ALT + = DOES NOT WORK.
Please to not be fucking with me, sir.
I'm not fucking with you.
That's how it's working with my mac.
I'm assuming at this point you have a PC, which means I probably can't help you.
Doesn't work for my PC either.
Also, meditation only proves that calming down is good for you.
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 05:13:23 AM
That's how it's working with my mac.
Sorry. I didn't know you were a benighted heathen.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:52:25 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:51:06 AM
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
(http://www.norelpref.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vintagebob.jpg)
That is gorgeous.
Also, when I say anywhere, I mean anywhere. Ever heard of those people who see jesus in the eagle nebula?
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 05:18:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:52:25 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:51:06 AM
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
(http://www.norelpref.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vintagebob.jpg)
That is gorgeous.
Also, when I say anywhere, I mean anywhere. Ever heard of those people who see jesus in the eagle nebula?
No. Raelians?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 05:19:29 AM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 05:18:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:52:25 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:51:06 AM
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
(http://www.norelpref.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vintagebob.jpg)
That is gorgeous.
Also, when I say anywhere, I mean anywhere. Ever heard of those people who see jesus in the eagle nebula?
No. Raelians?
:potd:
That hardly explains that time the Virgin Mary appeared on the walls of a Chicago underpass!
C'mon Poindexter - I'm sure you know all about what caused that one!
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 05:26:49 AM
That hardly explains that time the Virgin Mary appeared on the walls of a Chicago underpass!
C'mon Poindexter - I'm sure you know all about what caused that one!
Mold discoloring and active imagination paired with recognition.
-50 for calling me pointdexter.
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 05:26:49 AM
That hardly explains that time the Virgin Mary appeared on the walls of a Chicago underpass!
C'mon Poindexter - I'm sure you know all about what caused that one!
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/KidTerror_/bd_bobShow0.jpg)
And don't call BMW names, please. Only warning.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 05:19:29 AM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 05:18:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:52:25 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:51:06 AM
Tell me then, smart guy, how do you explain that woman in Mexico who had the Virgin Mary's face burnt into her nachos skillet? Hmm?
(http://www.norelpref.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/vintagebob.jpg)
That is gorgeous.
Also, when I say anywhere, I mean anywhere. Ever heard of those people who see jesus in the eagle nebula?
No. Raelians?
Actually, no (though it makes perfect sense). When hubble first released the Eagle nebula picture, CNN showed it, and lots of people called in to say they saw stuff in it, including the face of jesus.
(http://www.badastronomy.com/pix/lenin/eagleneb_jesus_web.jpg)
Thats the image in contrast. Now, I as much as any other person can recognize a face in that if we are told someone saw a face there.
But for the life of me, I can't see a face in an image that is non contrasted and slightly zoomed out.
(http://www.badastronomy.com/pix/lenin/eagleneb_web.jpg)
Our minds work in bizzare ways. A normal person might just see patterns and think it fun, and know its just made up. But a religious person would immediatly picture what the WANT to see, and see jesus in the nebula, or the virgin on a chicago subway wall. Thats how our minds trick us; its also how we recognize faces so well.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:58:32 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:56:46 AM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 04:48:52 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I could dig up sources showing that meditation has a positive effect on stress. I could also dig up sources that show tibetan monks having the physiologic ability to increase their body temperature to the point where they can dry freezing wet robes draped over them.
Neither of those things have to do with religion though, and certainly nothing paranormal. Its all very powerful psychosomatic responce. Very interesting, and very useful, and also very physical in its evidence. No paranormal shit here.
Paranormal ≠ spiritual.
Paranormal = religion.
I think it's an important distinction.
Hey...how did you get the not-equals sign? Alt + what?
Rog-
http://www.indesigncentral.com/i/SpecialSymbolsShortcuts.pdf
Not equal to doesn't have a windows alt+ shortcut.
Quote from: cyberus on May 15, 2007, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:58:32 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:56:46 AM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 04:48:52 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 15, 2007, 04:38:46 AM
Easy. But, don't delete your rant pls.
QuoteResearchers at the Maharishi School of Management in Fairfield, Iowa, found that meditation has a pervasive effect on stress. They looked at a group of people who had meditated for four months and found that they produced less of the stress hormone cortisol.
Source (http://psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20010501-000025&page=3)
How many times has this been verified?
And...
"Maharishi School of Management"?
I could dig up sources showing that meditation has a positive effect on stress. I could also dig up sources that show tibetan monks having the physiologic ability to increase their body temperature to the point where they can dry freezing wet robes draped over them.
Neither of those things have to do with religion though, and certainly nothing paranormal. Its all very powerful psychosomatic responce. Very interesting, and very useful, and also very physical in its evidence. No paranormal shit here.
Paranormal ≠ spiritual.
Paranormal = religion.
I think it's an important distinction.
Hey...how did you get the not-equals sign? Alt + what?
Rog-
http://www.indesigncentral.com/i/SpecialSymbolsShortcuts.pdf
Not equal to doesn't have a windows alt+ shortcut.
Thank you.
Sheesh! That BMW has an answer for everything!
Try and explain this one...A giant Virgin spotted in Ohio:
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/OHWINmary.html
Get busy, brainiac!
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 06:00:00 AM
Sheesh! That BMW has an answer for everything!
Try and explain this one...A giant Virgin spotted in Ohio:
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/OHWINmary.html
Get busy, brainiac!
Looks like a rural american attempt at making high art.
You keep loosing points.
The only thing that holds me back is your screen name, a nice satire of a new age fraud.
Close enough. You get a high distinction.
I'm still a believer in the cheese sandwich though.
I particularly love how that article has the headline "World's Largest Virgin Mary Statue", and then, it's first sentence says "This is, in fact, not the world's largest Virgin Mary statue -- we've seen larger -- but it's still impressive."
Virgin worshipping wankers.
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 06:49:38 AM
Close enough. You get a high distinction.
I'm still a believer in the cheese sandwich though.
I don't needed you to tell me I was right.
I have empirical scientific evidence. Which overrules allegory and speculation.
Anyway, Felix, sorry to get distracted.
Are you saying that because there's no scientific proof of paranormal phenomena, they therefore don't exist?
BMW: "The only thing that holds me back is your screen name, a nice satire of a new age fraud."
Would Tupac Chopra have been better or worse?
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 06:59:31 AM
BMW: "The only thing that holds me back is your screen name, a nice satire of a new age fraud."
Would Tupac Chopra have been better or worse?
Worse.
Meditation /= paranormal. Not only is there a decent understanding of the processes behind meditation, NOTHING paranormal will be taught at your local martial arts club, up to and including Dim Mak. Get over it already.
Is the Universe weirder than we think? Yes. Are their processes behind some of the stuff that happens? Yes. Am I too stupid to understand some of these processes? Yes. However, I draw the line at attributing them to anything, least of all a god or "spirits".
It reminds me of the tin foil hat brigade I hang around with while not here. Its almost amusing, because to the skeptics I am a believer, whereas the believers call me a skeptic. So long as there is evidence, you cannot deny something is happening (and if there is no evidence, then STFU, go away and find some). What that is though, remains to be determined. Its like the tards who see the hand of the NWO/Satanic conspiracy in everything - from the handshake Putin gives Bush to the latest terrorist atrocity. I always ask how they know this, or about outside, random events. It seems, according to every nut in the world who thinks he understands what is going on, RANDOM EVENTS DO NOT EXIST. And that goes from the CIA to the guy in Montana preparing to fight the alien reptoid invasion with his pipe bombs and shotgun, to the Pope to al-Sadr. There is nothing random, everything is predetermined, once we find what is hidden we then know everything and can proceed from there.
Except to us, apparently.
I think the problem with meditation is it has the potential to get really weird, really quick. For some reason the most readily available plane of exploration (the inside of your head) seems to be the road least travelled. Most people seem more than content to ignore the source of their thoughts, emotions and urges and just let it happen.
Then someone makes the fatal mistake of getting curious. When confronted, in an area with no physical dimension, by something which, to all intents and purposes, appears to be a whole nother consciousness or group thereof, a fairly typical assumption seems to involve god and angels or some bullshit along those lines. Couple this with the fact that at least half the literature available on the subject uses this kind of terminology and it aint difficult to see why theres such a situation.
In terms of psychic exploration we're still stuck back in the days before Galileo. The mind is flat, all the planets revolve about it.... Then there's assholes like me who refuse to take anyones word for anything. We've had a fucking look inside, fiddled about with bits of it, communicated with gods and angels. No big deal. All you gotta do is sail over the edge of the world.
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on May 15, 2007, 04:35:48 AM
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 04:22:46 AM
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on May 15, 2007, 03:58:12 AM
Some consider the paranormal/ occult phenomena as science that has yet to be explained. I consider this the most logical because if it's not a science of the physical world then it of course would a science of the mental. As far as humanity perceives, there's really no difference between the two. Mastering and learning the secrets of one will have the same results as the other.
I can't consider myself an ape, mabey a parasitic cell in global bacteria disease, but not an ape. Apes don't trash the world and organize order to control other apes. Sure, sometimes they may ban together, but they never enslaved one another. Humans are a slightly intelligent virus that's slowly sucking the earth of its resources and life. You look at the world from space and see the major cities, they don't like pinnacles of engineering and process. They look like dark, grey bacteria that spit smoke and smell like a nasty infection (especially LA.)
At least that's one view.
Paranormal occurrences are never proven. Find one example of anything spiritual being backed with reputable hard evidence, and I'll delete this rant consider a spirituality.
What about that toasted cheese sandwich that had the Virgin Mary's face on it?
I believe that one was genuine.
God's or spirits are just one way( a very simple one at that) of trying to explain something we don't understand. The rising and setting of the sun along with rain and weather were one time considered acts of Gods. I don't necessarily think all religion and spirituality is wrong, they just don't know what they have in front of them and they're definitely giving it the wrong label.
That's why I liked Phil Hine and Pete Carrol. They also talk alot of bullshit, but at least they try remove the mystery and turn the occult into more of a scientific process rather than system of religious faith.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 10:04:21 AM
Meditation /= paranormal. Not only is there a decent understanding of the processes behind meditation, NOTHING paranormal will be taught at your local martial arts club, up to and including Dim Mak. Get over it already.
Is the Universe weirder than we think? Yes. Are their processes behind some of the stuff that happens? Yes. Am I too stupid to understand some of these processes? Yes. However, I draw the line at attributing them to anything, least of all a god or "spirits".
It reminds me of the tin foil hat brigade I hang around with while not here. Its almost amusing, because to the skeptics I am a believer, whereas the believers call me a skeptic. So long as there is evidence, you cannot deny something is happening (and if there is no evidence, then STFU, go away and find some). What that is though, remains to be determined. Its like the tards who see the hand of the NWO/Satanic conspiracy in everything - from the handshake Putin gives Bush to the latest terrorist atrocity. I always ask how they know this, or about outside, random events. It seems, according to every nut in the world who thinks he understands what is going on, RANDOM EVENTS DO NOT EXIST. And that goes from the CIA to the guy in Montana preparing to fight the alien reptoid invasion with his pipe bombs and shotgun, to the Pope to al-Sadr. There is nothing random, everything is predetermined, once we find what is hidden we then know everything and can proceed from there.
Except to us, apparently.
This seems directed at me and I wasn't making that claim when I brought up meditation.
I was only responding to Felix's ridiculous position that there is no science that backs "anything spiritual."
I know he meant "anything paranormal" and I was seizing on the opportunity to make a
distinction between spirituality and religion. There's a lot of paranormal bullshit to both, but the former includes philosophical positions, clarifying one's sense of identity and purpose, and IMO, meditation.
You're right,Äînothing paranormal about meditation. Which means there's nothing paranormal about some spirituality. Maybe I'm being a semantic asshole, maybe Felix was leaning too hard on his thesaurus.
Sorry, the first paragraph was. The rest was general ranting.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 01:44:00 PM
Sorry, the first paragraph was. The rest was general ranting.
It's all good, I could have been more clear as to what I was referring to.
It did kind of appear I was insinuating that.
I'm trying to figure out if I should build up steam to make a "spirituality is not religion" post.
IMO "spirituality" is one of those icky words. It's got "spirit" in it ffs. I refuse to tar my self with that brush.
It seemed to grow out of people trying to leave the negative trappings of 'religion' behind. Unfortunately the same kind of tards took over the movement and now it's hard to tell them apart.
Spirituality is just like religion now, but much more vague and gullible (no - not open minded - I said gullible)
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 15, 2007, 02:54:51 PM
IMO "spirituality" is one of those icky words. It's got "spirit" in it ffs. I refuse to tar my self with that brush.
It seemed to grow out of people trying to leave the negative trappings of 'religion' behind. Unfortunately the same kind of tards took over the movement and now it's hard to tell them apart.
Spirituality is just like religion now, but much more vague and gullible (no - not open minded - I said gullible)
I would argue that spirituality CAN be just like religion. It's a tool that people use and it can only BE how people make it to be. When I think of spirituality vs. religion I think of an awareness of your world vs. following someone else's awareness of your world. I think someone might be able to argue that BIP is a form of spirituality. Also, I tend to think of spirituality as more of a personal thing vs. many religions which tend to be more of a community thing.
Quote from: LMNO on May 15, 2007, 02:00:51 PM
I'm trying to figure out if I should build up steam to make a "spirituality is not religion" post.
I should note that when I said "Spirituality" I was referring to the belief that certain spirits/ entities exist which influence our daily lives and can be "contacted" through various rituals. I guess I should have used spiritualism instead.
Yeah, you probably should have.
I think the word spirituality should be outlawed for a while, until people figure out how to not connect it to religion or bullshit.
Good call.
Tough one, though.
Spirituality, the word has become as distorted as the word pagan. This has effectively undermined the definition. They are now both interchangable with 'Fluff-n-Stuff.' As far as paranormal activity, I think the things that are documented are a reflection of our limited understanding of the brain and some of it's unlocked functions.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 04:03:25 PM
I think the word spirituality should be outlawed for a while, until people figure out how to not connect it to religion or bullshit.
:mittens:
Already practising that - you tell me you're into crystal healing I'll give you the same stick I'll give a born again faithfool.
I might have described myself as 'spiritual' before it became a co-opted marketing fad but maybe not even then. Truth is I don't think
they have a word for me. If they ever do I may be forced to kill them.
I like "agnostic".
Not the same connotations, but it can still be used in good faith, and at least shows some sort of thought on the topic.
Hey!
Karl Rove is agnostic, too!
OH, MY FUCKING GOD!!
CAIN IS AN ALT OF KARL ROVE!!!!!
:thanks:
I see 'belief' conversations like poker. Do nevar show your hand! Wait'll the person who wants to know has laid their cards on the table. Then you can decide what you want to tell them, based on your assessment of how likely they are to understand what you say.
To subscribe to a 'school of thought' (in matters of religion/spirituality) shows you are a 'pupil' and will be condescended to ad infinitum. If you're a fast learner you might even realise thats what's happening.
I never tell people, unless they ask. Its impolite, otherwise. And utterly useless. I tell you, most Pagans would never face "persecution" if they had any social manners whatsoever.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 04:41:05 PM
I never tell people, unless they ask. Its impolite, otherwise. And utterly useless. I tell you, most Pagans would never face "persecution" if they had any social manners whatsoever.
Hell yeah :mittens:
I've been known to wear pagan paraphernalia (pentagrams and sun/moon jewellery and the like) and, when asked what they mean, say something along the lines of "Nothing - it's just fucking jewellery dude!"
Cos I just fucking love being the guy on the train having a conversation about unicorns with some treehugging castaneda groupie that smells like rancid yak and patchoulli.
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 15, 2007, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 04:41:05 PM
I never tell people, unless they ask. Its impolite, otherwise. And utterly useless. I tell you, most Pagans would never face "persecution" if they had any social manners whatsoever.
Hell yeah :mittens:
I've been known to wear pagan paraphernalia (pentagrams and sun/moon jewellery and the like) and, when asked what they mean, say something along the lines of "Nothing - it's just fucking jewellery dude!"
"I take them from Pagans I beat up. They're like trophies."
:lol:
But its true. I remember at MW, where they were talking about telling their co-workers, or "coming out of the broom closet". Who gives a shit? I mean, really? Sure, if I want to be your friend or are interested in you in other ways, I might eventually ask a question like that, but its hardly a top priority. Same for flaunting my own beliefs.
In short, stfu, no-one cares what you believe. If you're so Pink you feel compelled to have to let everyone know how you label yourself, well thats your problem and I hope you get used to the consequences.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 05:36:24 PM
:lol:
But its true. I remember at MW, where they were talking about telling their co-workers, or "coming out of the broom closet". Who gives a shit? I mean, really? Sure, if I want to be your friend or are interested in you in other ways, I might eventually ask a question like that, but its hardly a top priority. Same for flaunting my own beliefs.
In short, stfu, no-one cares what you believe. If you're so Pink you feel compelled to have to let everyone know how you label yourself, well thats your problem and I hope you get used to the consequences.
I try to BE the consequences, in cases like that.
I approve most heartily.
Now I feel all angsty. I'm going to find some people on myspace with "xXx eMo [something] XxX" in their names and troll them.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 05:42:06 PM
I approve most heartily.
Now I feel all angsty. I'm going to find some people on myspace with "xXx eMo [something] XxX" in their names and troll them.
I'm tempted to go asplode my IIDB account.
If you did it in the political forums, I wouldn't be able to see. I have not postwhored enough, apparently. And I really liked reading the debates over there, even if I never took part. :sad:
I used to like pagans for one reason only and I'm not afraid to admit it - predatory fucking habits.
Pagan chicks, some of them, look fucking amazing in the corny arthurian shit and thigh high leather boots. They also fall for a hokey line in bullshit and like to fuck in candlelit, ritualistic fashion which I also go in for in a big way.
It's easy to come across as the grand fucking wizard of everything and don't these bubbleheads go for it like piranha to a sheep carcass. Ideal if you're enjoying that period in a young mans life, when you just want to tag em, bag em and moveon to the next notch on your bedpost.
I've heard it's a phase that a lot of guys go through. My hobby was witches.
Quote from: LMNO on May 15, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
Good call.
Tough one, though.
I can't claim that one. Got it from the former Boston bishop Spong, from his book Why Christianity must Change or Die.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 05:51:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 15, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
Good call.
Tough one, though.
I can't claim that one. Got it from the former Boston bishop Spong, from his book Why Christianity must Change or Die.
That dude calls himself a christian but he is coming dangerously close to earning some modicum of begrudged respect from me.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 05:47:45 PM
If you did it in the political forums, I wouldn't be able to see. I have not postwhored enough, apparently. And I really liked reading the debates over there, even if I never took part. :sad:
Huh?
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 15, 2007, 05:49:04 PM
I used to like pagans for one reason only and I'm not afraid to admit it - predatory fucking habits.
Pagan chicks, some of them, look fucking amazing in the corny arthurian shit and thigh high leather boots. They also fall for a hokey line in bullshit and like to fuck in candlelit, ritualistic fashion which I also go in for in a big way.
It's easy to come across as the grand fucking wizard of everything and don't these bubbleheads go for it like piranha to a sheep carcass. Ideal if you're enjoying that period in a young mans life, when you just want to tag em, bag em and moveon to the next notch on your bedpost.
I've heard it's a phase that a lot of guys go through. My hobby was witches.
Oh, well, there's nothing wrong with that.
Using other peoples' ignorant beliefs to get laid is perfectly acceptable.
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 15, 2007, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 05:51:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 15, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
Good call.
Tough one, though.
I can't claim that one. Got it from the former Boston bishop Spong, from his book Why Christianity must Change or Die.
That dude calls himself a christian but he is coming dangerously close to earning some modicum of begrudged respect from me.
Hes got my respect. Then again, the Episcopaelians aren't all that bad anyway, christian wise.
I wonder if theres a pdf floating around somewhere...
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 06:01:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 05:47:45 PM
If you did it in the political forums, I wouldn't be able to see. I have not postwhored enough, apparently. And I really liked reading the debates over there, even if I never took part. :sad:
Huh?
You gotta have 50 or a hundred posts or something to view the political forums at IIDB now. Which is a shame, as I liked to read the arguments. They were of a higher class than a lot on the internet.
Spammage.
That'll show 'em.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 07:11:25 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2007, 06:01:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 05:47:45 PM
If you did it in the political forums, I wouldn't be able to see. I have not postwhored enough, apparently. And I really liked reading the debates over there, even if I never took part. :sad:
Huh?
You gotta have 50 or a hundred posts or something to view the political forums at IIDB now. Which is a shame, as I liked to read the arguments. They were of a higher class than a lot on the internet.
Hello, MystickWicks.
Indeed. Quite sad, really. I never saw the problem.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 07:16:45 PM
Indeed. Quite sad, really. I never saw the problem.
Neither did I.
It was basically the mods/admins suddenly deciding they had to save us from ourselves.
The ones that agreed with them were mostly people who never posted in PD, and disagreed with it's very existence.
Quote from: Cain on May 15, 2007, 05:36:24 PM
But its true. I remember at MW, where they were talking about telling their co-workers, or "coming out of the broom closet". Who gives a shit? I mean, really? Sure, if I want to be your friend or are interested in you in other ways, I might eventually ask a question like that, but its hardly a top priority. Same for flaunting my own beliefs.
In short, stfu, no-one cares what you believe. If you're so Pink you feel compelled to have to let everyone know how you label yourself, well thats your problem and I hope you get used to the consequences.
SRSLY! If a coworker ever "came out of the broom closet" to me (I lol'd at that phrase) I'd say "Yes, and I jerk off in the bathroom right after lunch. Now we
both know unnecessary personal facts about each other."
Sadly, its a real phrase, the "broom closet". Cuz, you know, gays have very nearly been oppressed as much as pagans (srsly).
Quote from: Felix on May 15, 2007, 03:15:29 AM
Too long has spirituality blinded the meek and gullible. It is worse than pooping your pants, because you need more than a diaper to wipe clean the damage people have done because of it. Too long has the raunchy stench of superstitious beliefs of popular cults inflamed my nostrils and stimulated my gag reflex. I find it vomitous that people would insist in the existence of the paranormal. You do it, I know you do. I hate that shit. Somewhere in your thoughts lies the hard-headed hope that there's some higher power waiting to tell you what a good job you've done, or whatever recognition you're expecting that won't come. It makes me sick to my guts that people assume it so easily. Because you're AFRAAAID. Scared to shitting yourself silly that there's no big authority watching everything and making it all happen in some mysteriously justified fashion. It simply isn't so. Religion falls right apart under scrutiny, and the only people who ever believed it completely never cared to check.
I'm a fucking APE, and so are all of you! Hahahaa!! Religion is shit!
I keep wondering, after reading this OP, what would happen if the world were without religion entirely. Would it in fact BE a better place to live in?
I sorta doubt it. For the origins of religion and religious belief would still remain. The lack of understanding and the fundamental doubt in the senses would not be relegated to some backwater of "simply unknown" or "unknowable."
And one prejudice would simply replace another. It's not the thing itself, in other words, that's to be so despised and ridiculed but rather the actual
behavior and resultant theories that are brought about in the quandary and quest for knowing all things about all things.
I have no other real explanation than that for how I've seen religion played out. And I've seen a LOT of religion in my short 34 years of life.
Enough was also the most shit film I have ever seen, using that hack martial art, "Krav Maga" and starring J Lo of all people (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278435/)
Jenne, I would never presume to conjecture about "how things would be different if ____". I don't really have any regrets about history, because it's what made me and everything I know. Rather I am interested in being rid of spirituality, as I feel that we are capable of moving forward from it.
It was always a lie, even if it was useful in many cases. It's stopped being useful.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 15, 2007, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 15, 2007, 05:51:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 15, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
Good call.
Tough one, though.
I can't claim that one. Got it from the former Boston bishop Spong, from his book Why Christianity must Change or Die.
That dude calls himself a christian but he is coming dangerously close to earning some modicum of begrudged respect from me.
Hes got my respect. Then again, the Episcopaelians aren't all that bad anyway, christian wise.
I wonder if theres a pdf floating around somewhere...
I haven't read Spong for a while, but I did a lot when I was "a believer" from the ages of 16 to 21. I particularly liked "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism", which is a good account of the history of the writing of the bible, and one that I was amazed was written by such an insider. It could have been written by Dawkins, almost. Well, you know.
Found this PDF of an interview:
This page has a few pdf's:
http://unjobs.org/authors/john-shelby-spong
Here's an excerpt from the book mentioned above:
http://www.bishopspongbooks.com/files/ChptExcerpt_RescuingTheBible.pdf
Quote from: Felix on May 16, 2007, 01:10:47 AM
Jenne, I would never presume to conjecture about "how things would be different if ____". I don't really have any regrets about history, because it's what made me and everything I know. Rather I am interested in being rid of spirituality, as I feel that we are capable of moving forward from it.
It was always a lie, even if it was useful in many cases. It's stopped being useful.
You're still using the word spirituality wrong.
This is Wikipedia on the word:
QuoteSpirituality, in a narrow sense, concerns itself with matters of the spirit. The spiritual, involving (as it may) perceived eternal verities regarding humankind's ultimate nature, often contrasts with the temporal, with the material, or with the worldly. A sense of connection forms a central defining characteristic of spirituality ,Äî connection to something "greater" than oneself, which includes an emotional experience of religious awe and reverence. Equally importantly, spirituality relates to matters of sanity and of psychological health. Like some forms of religion, spirituality often focuses on personal experience (see mysticism).
Spirituality may involve perceiving or wishing to perceive life as more important ("higher"), more complex or more integrated with one's world view; as contrasted with the merely sensual.
Many spiritual traditions, accordingly, share a common spiritual theme: the "path", "work", practice, or tradition of perceiving and internalizing one's "true" nature and relationship to the rest of existence (God, creation (the universe), or life), and of becoming free of the lesser egoic self (or ego) in favor of being more fully one's "true" "Self".
According to that opening paragraph, your utopian ideals and such would be considered spirituality. Would you part with that?
Quote from: Felix on May 16, 2007, 01:10:47 AM
Jenne, I would never presume to conjecture about "how things would be different if ____". I don't really have any regrets about history, because it's what made me and everything I know. Rather I am interested in being rid of superstition as I feel that we are capable of moving forward from it.
It was always a lie, even if it was useful in many cases. It's stopped being useful.
Fixed.
Ok, now, we should probably parse the difference between spirituality and superstition.
I'm not about to dig too deep into references, but for my part superstition is more the type of shit people will do against all reason in reaction to a fabrication they've accepted as truth.
So, superstition is a habit, while spirituality is closer to an emotion?
I like that distinction. It's a habit and a memetic corruption of common sense.
Common sense is often neither.
I'd say because of
superstition
ineducation
teenage infantization
at the risk of sounding glibly idealistic.
Quote from: LMNO on May 16, 2007, 06:11:54 PM
So, superstition is a habit, while spirituality is closer to an emotion?
I agree with Felix; this is a good distinction.
I tend toward the trite sometimes, so I might fall into that here. My general stance, though, is that spirituality tends to be more personal/independent. Superstition is something provided by external stimuli. Spirituality is something arrived at through the individual, and therefore should theoretically be more adaptable, if you will (which is why I like comparing it to an emotion--it isn't fixed/concrete). Superstition is something fed in by outside sources accepted at face value without personalization, which makes it far more concrete and habit-like. I also tend to separate spirituality from religion (an experience can be spiritual without having to have anything to do with religion, although I might raise my eyebrows at someone who described it as such). Superstition tends to be more tied in to religion or other group mentality institutions.
I dislike the term "spirituality," though, because of over-use of it by neo-pagan-wiccan-thingies who want me to open myself to my inner eye and fondle crystals, etc.
P.S. - Hi. I am newbsauce. Long lurker, new poster. Eviscerate at will, etc.
welcome abroad.
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on May 16, 2007, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 16, 2007, 06:11:54 PM
So, superstition is a habit, while spirituality is closer to an emotion?
I agree with Felix; this is a good distinction.
I tend toward the trite sometimes, so I might fall into that here. My general stance, though, is that spirituality tends to be more personal/independent. Superstition is something provided by external stimuli. Spirituality is something arrived at through the individual, and therefore should theoretically be more adaptable, if you will (which is why I like comparing it to an emotion--it isn't fixed/concrete). Superstition is something fed in by outside sources accepted at face value without personalization, which makes it far more concrete and habit-like. I also tend to separate spirituality from religion (an experience can be spiritual without having to have anything to do with religion, although I might raise my eyebrows at someone who described it as such). Superstition tends to be more tied in to religion or other group mentality institutions.
I dislike the term "spirituality," though, because of over-use of it by neo-pagan-wiccan-thingies who want me to open myself to my inner eye and fondle crystals, etc.
P.S. - Hi. I am newbsauce. Long lurker, new poster. Eviscerate at will, etc.
Interesting point, but it doesn't explain supersitions like a "lucky bowling shirt", or some other personal posession that takes on supernatural significance, but only to the individual.
Quote from: LMNO on May 16, 2007, 08:21:52 PM
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on May 16, 2007, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 16, 2007, 06:11:54 PM
So, superstition is a habit, while spirituality is closer to an emotion?
I agree with Felix; this is a good distinction.
I tend toward the trite sometimes, so I might fall into that here. My general stance, though, is that spirituality tends to be more personal/independent. Superstition is something provided by external stimuli. Spirituality is something arrived at through the individual, and therefore should theoretically be more adaptable, if you will (which is why I like comparing it to an emotion--it isn't fixed/concrete). Superstition is something fed in by outside sources accepted at face value without personalization, which makes it far more concrete and habit-like. I also tend to separate spirituality from religion (an experience can be spiritual without having to have anything to do with religion, although I might raise my eyebrows at someone who described it as such). Superstition tends to be more tied in to religion or other group mentality institutions.
I dislike the term "spirituality," though, because of over-use of it by neo-pagan-wiccan-thingies who want me to open myself to my inner eye and fondle crystals, etc.
P.S. - Hi. I am newbsauce. Long lurker, new poster. Eviscerate at will, etc.
Interesting point, but it doesn't explain supersitions like a "lucky bowling shirt", or some other personal posession that takes on supernatural significance, but only to the individual.
Well crap. Nice job knocking the bottom out of my theory! :sad:
Your point is very valid. I have no answer, but I'll definitely think on it. My first inclination, in not wanting to immediately contradict myself, is to say that something like that could in theory be qualified as spirituality because it isn't the group mentality sort of thing; it's individual. I mean, I think it's sort of dumb, but I don't necessarily think all spirituality is non-dumb, either. On the other hand, that is so flagrantly a superstition-category situation. I don't know.
Hmm. I am going to reconsider this. Good call.
Go ahead and contradict. We don't care.
Sorry to knock your theory. I think it has potential. Keep at it.
I'd like to develop the compare/contrast with a focus on spirituality- There's definitely a certain emotion attached to feelings of divinity or reverence, and that checks out with me as human and healthy. Those that attach those feelings to arbitrations or stories they've heard are the ones I have a problem with.
Quote from: Felix on May 16, 2007, 09:02:42 PM
I'd like to develop the compare/contrast with a focus on spirituality- There's definitely a certain emotion attached to feelings of divinity or reverence, and that checks out with me as human and healthy. Those that attach those feelings to arbitrations or stories they've heard are the ones I have a problem with.
Brain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states. Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever. I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool. It is exactly like mental masturbation.
People are free to jack off with their thoughts all they want. Doesn't bother me. It's when they get all mystical/magical that I start looking around for a bludgeon.
Superstitions are a part of that whole "mystical magcial wowzorz" bullshit. It is the unreasoning response to fear. Some people think that they can magically control reality by doing certain things that accidentally might even be related to whatever it is they are trying to control. It is shamanism at its very best.
True spirituality (please refer to BMW's posted definition) has more to do with self actualization. It seems to be a process by which an individual comes to realize exactly who they are and where they are in the world around them. This is often encapsulated in various spiritual memes such as "dying to one's self" in Buddhism. Christians have co-opted the concept as apothenien kerdos or some such. Same shit. The goal is to realize one's place within the greater scheme of things.
I call bullshit, though. Refer back to where I talked about "divine" realizations being mental masturbation. Consider: if you dissociate yourself from your own sense of identity you put yourself back into the state of being an infant. For a brief moment you experience a rush of euphoria as the world around you fills the cognitive void, then you're pineal gland ejaculates. Congrats. You just jacked off your brain stem.
"Mother is the name of god on the lips and in the hearts of all children."
-The Crow (or some shit)
Spirituality seems to be either an emotion (in good spirits), drunkenness, the world of the dead, and/or the Void (as the antithesis of matter). Spirituality is usually dressed up to seem real shiny and pleasant, just like magic or religion sometimes is, but there's also something wicked about it too. To me, spirituality is paradox. Then again, paradox isn't.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 03:43:24 AM
Quote from: Felix on May 16, 2007, 09:02:42 PM
I'd like to develop the compare/contrast with a focus on spirituality- There's definitely a certain emotion attached to feelings of divinity or reverence, and that checks out with me as human and healthy. Those that attach those feelings to arbitrations or stories they've heard are the ones I have a problem with.
Brain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states. Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever. I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool. It is exactly like mental masturbation.
People are free to jack off with their thoughts all they want. Doesn't bother me. It's when they get all mystical/magical that I start looking around for a bludgeon.
Superstitions are a part of that whole "mystical magcial wowzorz" bullshit. It is the unreasoning response to fear. Some people think that they can magically control reality by doing certain things that accidentally might even be related to whatever it is they are trying to control. It is shamanism at its very best.
True spirituality (please refer to BMW's posted definition) has more to do with self actualization. It seems to be a process by which an individual comes to realize exactly who they are and where they are in the world around them. This is often encapsulated in various spiritual memes such as "dying to one's self" in Buddhism. Christians have co-opted the concept as apothenien kerdos or some such. Same shit. The goal is to realize one's place within the greater scheme of things.
I call bullshit, though. Refer back to where I talked about "divine" realizations being mental masturbation. Consider: if you dissociate yourself from your own sense of identity you put yourself back into the state of being an infant. For a brief moment you experience a rush of euphoria as the world around you fills the cognitive void, then you're pineal gland ejaculates. Congrats. You just jacked off your brain stem.
"Mother is the name of god on the lips and in the hearts of all children."
-The Crow (or some shit)
Aside from the fact that you are supposed to dissassociate yourself from even that bliss as well. Buddhism en ultimo looks for total dissolution, even beyond joy and euphoria.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 03:43:24 AMBrain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states. Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever. I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool. It is exactly like mental masturbation.
Ok, sure. But when you go there, you end up with, "
everything is an electrochemical brain state". Which is the neurociological equivalent of "we are all one." It doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.
What is "special" about them is the potential they have to change behavior. In this way, they are useful tools.
So, then we have to figure out how to achieve these states. Just by calling it an electrochemical reaction doesn't say how it comes about. So, some people, or groups of people have suggested techniques to bring this state about. Some are more useful than others.
So now what you have is an electochemical state, the goal, and the techniques, which are probably specific to each individual.
When these techniques become dogma (i.e. followed even if they don't produce results), they become religious/superstitious.
So, we arrive once again at "spirituality" being an emotional/electrochemical state, while religion/superstition are stale, outdated techniques originally designed to achieve that state.
Might one work on creating their own forms of religion/superstition, for personal use in accomplishing these mind states?
:argh!:
Hi, welcome to Discordianism.
Sorree dude - Just spoonfeeding the noobs :evil:
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 17, 2007, 03:19:18 PM
Might one work on creating their own forms of religion/superstition, for personal use in accomplishing these mind states?
I think my first rant covered that.
The answer is yes.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 17, 2007, 06:13:14 AM
Aside from the fact that you are supposed to dissassociate yourself from even that bliss as well. Buddhism en ultimo looks for total dissolution, even beyond joy and euphoria.
I tend to look over that bit simply because it makes the whole effort seem more than a little retarded.
Everything is retarded. Buddhism is one more interesting, retarded thing to do.
If you wanna do something that's not retarded you'll be a while doing nowt.
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 17, 2007, 07:10:52 PM
Everything is retarded. Buddhism is one more interesting, retarded thing to do.
If you wanna do something that's not retarded you'll be a while doing nowt.
That's retarded.
Quote from: LMNO on May 17, 2007, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 03:43:24 AMBrain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states. Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever. I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool. It is exactly like mental masturbation.
Ok, sure. But when you go there, you end up with, "everything is an electrochemical brain state". Which is the neurociological equivalent of "we are all one." It doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.
What is "special" about them is the potential they have to change behavior. In this way, they are useful tools.
Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state. That's the nature of the beast. I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation. Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does. Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?
Quote
So, we arrive once again at "spirituality" being an emotional/electrochemical state, while religion/superstition are stale, outdated techniques originally designed to achieve that state.
True, but with a caveat. "Spirtuality" is masturbation. Religion is prostitution. Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).
I really feel like pushing back on this, but I don't know why yet. I shall review the evidence & get back to you.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 17, 2007, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 03:43:24 AMBrain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states. Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever. I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool. It is exactly like mental masturbation.
Ok, sure. But when you go there, you end up with, "everything is an electrochemical brain state". Which is the neurociological equivalent of "we are all one." It doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.
What is "special" about them is the potential they have to change behavior. In this way, they are useful tools.
Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state. That's the nature of the beast. I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation. Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does. Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?
Quote
So, we arrive once again at "spirituality" being an emotional/electrochemical state, while religion/superstition are stale, outdated techniques originally designed to achieve that state.
True, but with a caveat. "Spirtuality" is masturbation. Religion is prostitution. Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).
I just want to know what's so damn frowny about masturbation, whether literal or figurative! :?
LMNO--I like your idea about religion/superstition being techniques originally designed to achieve said state. I don't know if this is necessarily what you were after, but that angle, in my mind, gives credit to what religions were initially after. Religions didn't start out as the stagnant, narrow things they often end up associated with. Christianity had to become big for some reason, for example.
Ben Franklin mentioned a religion he really liked--they didn't write down any of their philosophy/rules, because they figured that if they wrote it down, further down the line, people would take it as unchangeable; they wanted it to remain constantly changing. Too bad those guys didn't last; I can respect that.
lol, you're a GIRL.
Quote from: LMNO on May 17, 2007, 07:56:29 PM
I really feel like pushing back on this, but I don't know why yet. I shall review the evidence & get back to you.
Kick him in the nads. In the NADS!
DC: masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms. Hence its "badness." However, it will not make you go blind.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 07:51:16 PMOf course "everything" is an electrochemical state. That's the nature of the beast. I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation. Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does. Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?
First off, it seems that by this thinking, since you can reduce every single action and thought to an electrochemical state, doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that everything you do, think, and experience is masturbation? And if so, doesn't that pretty much reduce your entire existence to a meaningless, inconsequential pool of DNA in the cosmic tubesock? That's a pretty bleak view of the universe, if you ask me.
Secondly, the nature of the so-called "spiritual" experience isn't that you do it to yourself, it's that it is happening from the outside in. Yes, this is not factually true, but it is what is often
percieved. So, it doesn't feel like masturbation, it's more like a handjob.
Thirdly, many people have made signifigant changes to their lives after such experiences: they've been friendlier, or more compassionate, or fanatical, or close-minded. It has a much greater social impact than masturbation, even if, biologically, the two are similar.
Quote"Spirtuality" is masturbation. Religion is prostitution. Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).
I'm not really following the analogy.
Quote from: Cain on May 18, 2007, 06:34:27 AM
DC: masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms.
I don't know if this still fits the analogy/allegory/whatever, but I'd like to point out just how many people like to have it both ways. Oooh, their lives are better 'cause they get to fuck once in a while instead of "just" masturbating, but look closer and you'll see they've carefully structured the fucking so that it too achieves little in concrete terms.
Quote from: Cain on May 18, 2007, 06:34:27 AM
DC: masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms. Hence its "badness." However, it will not make you go blind.
But what about my palms? Will they get hairy? :eek:
Quote from: LMNO on May 18, 2007, 02:21:19 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 07:51:16 PMOf course "everything" is an electrochemical state. That's the nature of the beast. I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation. Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does. Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?
First off, it seems that by this thinking, since you can reduce every single action and thought to an electrochemical state, doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that everything you do, think, and experience is masturbation? And if so, doesn't that pretty much reduce your entire existence to a meaningless, inconsequential pool of DNA in the cosmic tubesock? That's a pretty bleak view of the universe, if you ask me.
Secondly, the nature of the so-called "spiritual" experience isn't that you do it to yourself, it's that it is happening from the outside in. Yes, this is not factually true, but it is what is often percieved. So, it doesn't feel like masturbation, it's more like a handjob.
Thirdly, many people have made signifigant changes to their lives after such experiences: they've been friendlier, or more compassionate, or fanatical, or close-minded. It has a much greater social impact than masturbation, even if, biologically, the two are similar.
Quote"Spirtuality" is masturbation. Religion is prostitution. Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).
I'm not really following the analogy.
On your "first off," I was thinking something sort of along those lines. It gets awfully nihilistic if you start discounting anything that is just "feeling good." And then eventually someone will come running and smack you upside the head with a bar stool. Oh, wait, that felt BAD. All of a sudden feeling good doesn't seem quite so terrible anymore... But that's just how I see it.
Quote from: DJRubberducky on May 18, 2007, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 18, 2007, 06:34:27 AM
DC: masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms.
I don't know if this still fits the analogy/allegory/whatever, but I'd like to point out just how many people like to have it both ways. Oooh, their lives are better 'cause they get to fuck once in a while instead of "just" masturbating, but look closer and you'll see they've carefully structured the fucking so that it too achieves little in concrete terms.
I think it still fits, and it's a good point. I know I want to go somewhere with it, but I don't know where yet.
Our metaphorical masturbation or fucking can both be pretty pointless/worthless. Or, as LMNO pointed out, they can have a positive impact on a person, changing them for the better. Even if the output of something is just making you feel good, sometimes that's what it takes. Maybe it's not SIGNIFICANT and PRODUCTIVE in really Big
TM and Important
TM kinds of ways, but it sure as hell contributes. Let's not knock meaningless electrochemical reactions if in the end it still accomplishes something, even if that something is just serving as a catalyst for another reaction.
I know I had a point in here when I started, but... I lost it.
There is no good and no bad other than what we agree on.
And that only applies 'here'
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 18, 2007, 06:31:30 PM
There is no good and no bad other than what we agree on.
And that only applies 'here'
In one way thats true.
In another way, thats bullshit.
Quote from: LMNO on May 18, 2007, 02:21:19 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 17, 2007, 07:51:16 PMOf course "everything" is an electrochemical state. That's the nature of the beast. I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation. Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does. Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?
First off, it seems that by this thinking, since you can reduce every single action and thought to an electrochemical state, doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that everything you do, think, and experience is masturbation? And if so, doesn't that pretty much reduce your entire existence to a meaningless, inconsequential pool of DNA in the cosmic tubesock? That's a pretty bleak view of the universe, if you ask me.
For the most part, yes, it is all vaguely like masturbating. I don't see it as being bleak at all. Don't you enjoy having orgasms? (if you don't then I think you aren't doing it right)
Quote
Secondly, the nature of the so-called "spiritual" experience isn't that you do it to yourself, it's that it is happening from the outside in. Yes, this is not factually true, but it is what is often percieved. So, it doesn't feel like masturbation, it's more like a handjob.
"...isn't that you do it yourself"... WTF? It's all in your head, baby. It only feels like it comes from the outside. That perception has to do with the specific brain state you achieve through your mumbo jumbo. So it's more like spanking off to thoughts of someone giving you a handjob.
Quote
Thirdly, many people have made signifigant changes to their lives after such experiences: they've been friendlier, or more compassionate, or fanatical, or close-minded. It has a much greater social impact than masturbation, even if, biologically, the two are similar.
The masturbation meme is only an analogy. It's what you spank off about that changes things in your head. Jerk off to same-sex fantasies and you'll probably wind up doinking someone with similar plumbing. Think happy-happy thoughts about world peace fuck fests and you'll probably want to engage in some of that as well. It doesn't change the fact that the your conditioned endorphin response is keyed to the object of your fascination.
Quote
Quote"Spirtuality" is masturbation. Religion is prostitution. Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).
I'm not really following the analogy.
True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation. You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.
Religion is somebody else's fantasy. This is what they jerk off to, and it makes them feel good. Most people struggle with the spirtual side of their chosen religion because they are trying to "grasp" what it is about the fantasy that gives them the "happy ending". In that regard all of the sheep in the flock are getting fucked day in and day out by somebody else who is getting off on the whole deal. I invoked the prostitution meme because that embodies the idea of getting raped in slave like conditions, which is how I percieve the followers of all religions.
Superstitions are fears, plain and simple. They are programmed into your head. It's fine to be afraid of shit not going the way you expect it to, but it is superstition when you think that a telepathic thought, mumbled vocalizations, or magical rituals will influence the universe around you to prevent something bad from happening. They are irrational and complete nonsense. When you have an irrational panic, anxiety or aversion reaction to something, this is a programmed response not unlike PTSD. What follows are various coping mechanisms. In the case of superstitions, these coping mechanism take the form of magic rituals.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 18, 2007, 09:39:10 PM
True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation. You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.
So in your mind, conquering depression, mastering fears, and healing from abuse are the same as rubbing one off before work?
I don't think that's oversimplifying. That's just retarded.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on May 18, 2007, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on May 18, 2007, 06:31:30 PM
There is no good and no bad other than what we agree on.
And that only applies 'here'
In one way thats true.
In another way, thats bullshit.
Not if 'here' can be a room or the entire planet. There may well be one or two things that everyone on planet earth agree on but in most cases (even ones where you can't possibly entertain the notion that anyone could be against) there's prolly whole countries where they think that way.
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 19, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 18, 2007, 09:39:10 PM
True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation. You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.
So in your mind, conquering depression, mastering fears, and healing from abuse are the same as rubbing one off before work?
I don't think that's oversimplifying. That's just retarded.
I meant that it was an entirely solo experience. Nobody else can help you find "enlightenment". It's strictly a do-it-yourself project.
Quote from: Random Probability on May 21, 2007, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 19, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 18, 2007, 09:39:10 PM
True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation. You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.
So in your mind, conquering depression, mastering fears, and healing from abuse are the same as rubbing one off before work?
I don't think that's oversimplifying. That's just retarded.
I meant that it was an entirely solo experience. Nobody else can help you find "enlightenment". It's strictly a do-it-yourself project.
QFT
Quote from: Random Probability on May 21, 2007, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 19, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 18, 2007, 09:39:10 PM
True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation. You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.
So in your mind, conquering depression, mastering fears, and healing from abuse are the same as rubbing one off before work?
I don't think that's oversimplifying. That's just retarded.
I meant that it was an entirely solo experience. Nobody else can help you find "enlightenment". It's strictly a do-it-yourself project.
Of course the individual is ultimately responsible for
doing the work on their own problems. I agree with you there.
But, if you think no one can help guide, inform, or influence you on your way... well, no wonder you liken spirituality to an unsatisfying fantasy and speak about it in the past tense.
Did we ever sort out the spirituality/superstition wrangling out? Because I came up with a solution last night, but I can't be bothered to try and remember if we already had one or not.
Not really. A few tried, but it got lost in the semantic asshattery.
What you got?
Superstition is another variation of the aneristic delusion, basically. Its looking for patterns, taking to a complete extreme, finding implicit meanings and signifiers in the most basic of happenings.
Spirituality never even fits into the Aneristic delusion.
Hey presto!
Good thinks, there.
Which would make a passed-down superstition (salt over the shoulder, etc) a case of not even looking for patterns, but trying to create a pattern out of the whole cloth.
Yeah. I got that from R. A. Salvatore, actually. I was reading about how the Drow keep seeing everything explained in terms of Lloth's will, no matter how random or casual etc which crippled their ability for action. It kinda came to be naturally, after that, and I slapped myself on the head for not realizing such an obvious and Discordian answer to the problem.
All this discordianism crap is pretty much breaking down into a few distinct principles:
Pattern Recognition.
Primate Territorialism.
Reality grids/filters.
And inspiration from odd places.
Needs moar High Wierdness, too.
I consider the odd inspirations to be linked to the pattern recognition part, and the High Weirdness to be an absolute necessity if you're actually gonna try and live while thinking like this.
Quote from: LMNO on May 22, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
All this discordianism crap is pretty much breaking down into a few distinct principles:
Pattern Recognition.
Primate Territorialism.
Reality grids/filters.
i like this.
cain could you give a hint on how the high weirdness would fit in?
though i like lmno's approach of "high weirdness for simply coping" also.
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 22, 2007, 01:45:57 AM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 21, 2007, 05:15:12 PM
I meant that it was an entirely solo experience. Nobody else can help you find "enlightenment". It's strictly a do-it-yourself project.
Of course the individual is ultimately responsible for doing the work on their own problems. I agree with you there.
But, if you think no one can help guide, inform, or influence you on your way... well, no wonder you liken spirituality to an unsatisfying fantasy and speak about it in the past tense.
The problem here is that nobody else can know what it will take to give you that magic moment. This falls under the category "you can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think." The process does not occur in a vacuum. You can steal ideas from other people, but unless you already think exactly like that person does, their ideas can't help you.
However, once you start preaching to people how to become "enlightened" you just created a religion, and all religions are full of poomp and fail (mostly poomp).
I ranted here once about the evils of believing other people's shit. Nothing's changed.
yep. Here (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9506.0) is the bit about spirituality vs religion.
Quote from: triple zero on May 22, 2007, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 22, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
All this discordianism crap is pretty much breaking down into a few distinct principles:
Pattern Recognition.
Primate Territorialism.
Reality grids/filters.
i like this.
cain could you give a hint on how the high weirdness would fit in?
though i like lmno's approach of "high weirdness for simply coping" also.
Maybe the PD bit about grids for inspiration.
And tentacles. Needs more tentacles.
Quote from: triple zero on May 22, 2007, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 22, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
All this discordianism crap is pretty much breaking down into a few distinct principles:
Pattern Recognition.
Primate Territorialism.
Reality grids/filters.
i like this.
cain could you give a hint on how the high weirdness would fit in?
though i like lmno's approach of "high weirdness for simply coping" also.
I've always thought the high weirdness was a breaching technique. (at least it was for me)
the idea that when you do something unexpected, something
so unexpected that it doesn't seem related to the grid you're in, it forces people to step back and see the grid.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on May 22, 2007, 05:27:41 PM
Quote from: triple zero on May 22, 2007, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 22, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
All this discordianism crap is pretty much breaking down into a few distinct principles:
Pattern Recognition.
Primate Territorialism.
Reality grids/filters.
i like this.
cain could you give a hint on how the high weirdness would fit in?
though i like lmno's approach of "high weirdness for simply coping" also.
I've always thought the high weirdness was a breaching technique. (at least it was for me)
the idea that when you do something unexpected, something so unexpected that it doesn't seem related to the grid you're in, it forces people to step back and see the grid.
THAT probably depends on how far off the grid you are. If they can't recognize what you're doing as something they might do too, then they just attribute you as "other," cast you off, and it's meaningless.
well said Jenne
btw, I've split off this thread to talk about LMNO's earlier post. see here (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=12752.0).
Quote from: Random Probability on May 22, 2007, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on May 22, 2007, 01:45:57 AM
Quote from: Random Probability on May 21, 2007, 05:15:12 PM
I meant that it was an entirely solo experience. Nobody else can help you find "enlightenment". It's strictly a do-it-yourself project.
Of course the individual is ultimately responsible for doing the work on their own problems. I agree with you there.
But, if you think no one can help guide, inform, or influence you on your way... well, no wonder you liken spirituality to an unsatisfying fantasy and speak about it in the past tense.
The problem here is that nobody else can know what it will take to give you that magic moment. This falls under the category "you can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think." The process does not occur in a vacuum. You can steal ideas from other people, but unless you already think exactly like that person does, their ideas can't help you.
However, once you start preaching to people how to become "enlightened" you just created a religion, and all religions are full of poomp and fail (mostly poomp).
I ranted here once about the evils of believing other people's shit. Nothing's changed.
yep. Here (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9506.0) is the bit about spirituality vs religion.
Just because someone doesn't know the precise moment or what specifically will trigger a life-changing realization DOES NOT mean there are not methods that make it much more probable. Furthermoar, you can't provide any evidence that the individual experiencing radical shifts in perspective has any greater understanding of the causal dynamics behind the process than the asshole guiding them towards mindset ruination.
Which makes you full of shit.
Unless I think exactly like someone, their ideas can't help me? Utter bullshit.
Believe nothing? BARSTOOL MOTHERFUCKER, CAN IT KNOCK YUO OUT?
Just goes to show you don't need religion to say spastically foolish things.
You're on the right track but on the wrong train.
2 cents:
i was under the impression that the etymology for 'supersition' meant to be 'excessively religious'.
that appears to differentiate between people who are 'religious' and people who are 'getting a bit carried away'.
the word 'religion' has become something of a heavily loaded, and possibly, taboo word for many people. but it's root meaning is 'to be bound back to oneself'. it doesn't mean 'believing every last piece of BS spouted by a guy wearing a funny hat and quoting from a terminally boring, heavily edited and badly translated piece of bastardized middle eastern folklore.'
as for the numerous masturbation references, the notion of 'everything is just neurochemistry' is considered (from what i understand) to be the extreme end of the post-modernist school of examining mysticism/sprituality/whatever.
'rational mysticsm' by john horgan is an excellent read because it delves into this very subject.
superstition = the magic without the NLP