http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20091119_College_students_arrested_for_not_paying_tip.html?submit=Vote&oid=1&mr=1&70466877=Y&pid=70466877&cid=8500281
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:00:15 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20091119_College_students_arrested_for_not_paying_tip.html?submit=Vote&oid=1&mr=1&70466877=Y&pid=70466877&cid=8500281
Yeah, if its an autograt and its on the menu, its not optional.
Shouldn't be an excuse for the waitress to provide poor service, but they should have just complained to the manager.
If it's not optional, then its not a tip.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:06:50 PM
If it's not optional, then its not a tip.
Thats standard policy at a lot of places... usually only for larger groups of people.
Work as a server for a while, and you'll understand why.
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Well, then they should be plain and call it a service charge... no gratitude involved ;-)
Calling it a gratuity or tip makes people think its based on the service quality of the staff, instead of a "you have no choice, no matter how shitty the waiter was" service charge.
This is bullshit, if you give shitty service you do not get a tip. This kid better fight it in court. Restaurants should not be able to force you to tip. It's a goddamn tip.
Also, automatic gratuity is stated on every single one of our menus. If you are a party of 6 or more you agree to the service charge. If you don't agree, don't sit down to eat. Also, splitting checks doesn't get rid of it either. We can split gratuity too.
If the service was that bad, management should have been notified, and according to the comments section, apparently their meal was comped. In that case, I would probably leave a tip for server karma, but I wouldn't expect it from a table if I was the server who fucked up so badly.
A comped meal is comped. You're free to go.
A short-changed or unpaid bill INCLUDING a service charge is theft.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:11:50 PM
This is bullshit, if you give shitty service you do not get a tip. This kid better fight it in court. Restaurants should not be able to force you to tip. It's a goddamn tip.
If you feel that you shouldn't have to pay a service charge, then contact the legislature to raise server minimum.
Horseshit. If you do a shitty job you don't get a tip.
EDIT: Fuck that, I'm not a server and I would never be a server. If you happen to be a server and think the base bay is unacceptable then you write your representatives or find another job. If you think it's unfair and you're a server then why did you agree to it in the first place?
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
On the one hand I agree... cause people stiff waitstaff. On the other hand, there are some pretty shitty waitstaff out there. I never 'don't tip'... but I do like to select a good tip or a minimum tip based on their service.
Most servers lose a little of their tip when there's an auto gratuity on my bill. It's always 18% and if the waiter is at all useful I tip 20% or more.
I dunno why waiters agree to work for $2 or whatever it is anyway.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in
recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be distinguished
from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
Whether a tip is
to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the
customer, and generally he has the right to determine who shall be the
recipient of his gratuity.
edit: text added from link for TL;DR purposes
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:18:45 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:11:50 PM
This is bullshit, if you give shitty service you do not get a tip. This kid better fight it in court. Restaurants should not be able to force you to tip. It's a goddamn tip.
If you feel that you shouldn't have to pay a service charge, then contact the legislature to raise server minimum.
This.
The whole concept of tipping is just a means by which the restaurant owner pushes the wage burden onto the customer.
When I have the mechanic fix whatever I've just fucked up on my Jeep, I pay the garage. The garage pays the mechanic out of the gross.
When I go out to eat, I pay the restaurant. Then,
on top of my bill, I have to pay a good chunk of the wages of the server.
The mechanic doesn't need any extra incentive to do a good job, and neither does a server. If I don't like the mechanic's attitude or ability, I shall go elsewhere. Same with a restaurant.
In short, server minimums are bullshit, and should be outlawed.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
What's that got to do with accepting the terms and conditions listed on the menu?
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
So then a service charge is separate from a tip... Hrmmm, I wonder how many servers are reporting the money they get from service charges as tips on their income?
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
Sorry, Suu, without a fucking law degree, your argument is invalid.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
Horseshit. If you do a shitty job you don't get a tip.
Define "shitty job".
Also, consider the typical fuckwad diner patron: Let's say a meal and a drink costs $30. Tip should be $6, at least.
Now, let's say you're with a group of six fellow fuckwads, and you're presented with a bill of $180. Chances are, you're
not going to leave $216 on the table, even if you get good service. Why? Because you're all a bunch of cheap fuckwads.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:24:49 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
So then a service charge is separate from a tip... Hrmmm, I wonder how many servers are reporting the money they get from service charges as tips on their income?
You have to. It's included on your cashout. That's what computers are for.
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
Horseshit. If you do a shitty job you don't get a tip.
Define "shitty job".
Also, consider the typical fuckwad diner patron: Let's say a meal and a drink costs $30. Tip should be $6, at least.
Now, let's say you're with a group of six fellow fuckwads, and you're presented with a bill of $180. Chances are, you're not going to leave $216 on the table, even if you get good service. Why? Because you're all a bunch of cheap fuckwads.
Hold up, LMNO. Let's see that law degree.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
If you think it's unfair and you're a server then why did you agree to it in the first place?
Because no-one else is hiring.
Cain,
gets paid three times as much as Suu, and still doesn't think its fair for the work actually done.
Heh. More like Psychology PhD, but... Heh.
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
Horseshit. If you do a shitty job you don't get a tip.
Define "shitty job".
Also, consider the typical fuckwad diner patron: Let's say a meal and a drink costs $30. Tip should be $6, at least.
Now, let's say you're with a group of six fellow fuckwads, and you're presented with a bill of $180. Chances are, you're not going to leave $216 on the table, even if you get good service. Why? Because you're all a bunch of cheap fuckwads.
That's defined by the fuckwad diner patron, for better or worse. Personally I tend to tip 15-25% as long as the waiter/waitress is cordial and checks on us at least once or twice.
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Heh. More like Psychology PhD, but... Heh.
We will be requiring proof of degrees for all further arguments on PD. It's the only way to be fair about these things.
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
So its a language problem... a 20% Service Charge will be added to parties of six or more.
It sounds better to say Gratuity though... the customer won't feel as ganked. ;-)
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
You have to. It's included on your cashout. That's what computers are for.
But according to the Dept of Labor, that is not a tip.... so what is it?
QuoteIt is to be distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Heh. More like Psychology PhD, but... Heh.
We will be requiring proof of degrees for all further arguments on PD. It's the only way to be fair about these things.
Everyone else needs to leave Aneristic Delusions right now, then.
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
Is the money going to the server or the restaurant?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:25:42 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
Sorry, Suu, without a fucking law degree, your argument is invalid.
:roll:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:29:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
So its a language problem... a 20% Service Charge will be added to parties of six or more.
It sounds better to say Gratuity though... the customer won't feel as ganked. ;-)
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
You have to. It's included on your cashout. That's what computers are for.
But according to the Dept of Labor, that is not a tip.... so what is it?
QuoteIt is to be distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
Except that the payment or charge in this case is made to the server free and clear, it's just included on the bill, and is such actually part of "tipped wages" as per the link Slanket posted.
Quote from: Cain on November 19, 2009, 07:30:42 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Heh. More like Psychology PhD, but... Heh.
We will be requiring proof of degrees for all further arguments on PD. It's the only way to be fair about these things.
Everyone else needs to leave Aneristic Delusions right now, then.
This is a fact. Bring and Brag is now limited to art and music graduates.
It was a joke you fucking jackasses.
Seriously though, this is horseshit. The people didn't get service, why should they have to pay a service charge?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:32:30 PM
Except that the payment or charge in this case is made to the server free and clear, it's just included on the bill, and is such actually part of "tipped wages" as per the link Slanket posted.
Quote
A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in
recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be distinguished
from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service. Whether a tip is
to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the
customer, and generally he has the right to determine who shall be the
recipient of his gratuity.
I disagree... this says that a tip is presented by the customer, it is different than a service charge and the matter and its amount is determined solely by the customer.
I don't mind the service charge, its usually less than I would tip... but there does seem to be a discrepancy, either its voluntary and determined by the customer, or its a service charge and not a tip... which I would guess should technically get counted in with the $2 an hour or whatever rather than "tips" on taxes.
The Service Charge is assessed by the resturant and paid to the resturant... the the resturant pays the server. I think.
But...
I don't have a law degree :horrormirth:
As your attorney, I recommend you pay the tip, then take a shit in the bathroom sink.
\
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/Jerry_Frankster/Samoan_Attorney.jpg)
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:36:16 PM
It was a joke you fucking jackasses.
Seriously though, this is horseshit. The people didn't get service, why should they have to pay a service charge?
Because we have laws based on general concepts and they don't apply fairly in all cases. Most of the time, this keeps asshole customers from screwing the waitress. Sometimes, it lets asshole waiters screw the customers.
Quote from: Cain on November 19, 2009, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
If you think it's unfair and you're a server then why did you agree to it in the first place?
Because no-one else is hiring.
Cain,
gets paid three times as much as Suu, and still doesn't think its fair for the work actually done.
I'm ServSafe, HAACP, and TIPS certified. I know that I could be putting my life on the line every time I plate a rare burger, but I get paid $2.89 an hour.
I have to scrape your nasty dirty plates which could be ridden with God-Knows-What bacteria, and handle dirty ass money, but I get paid $2.89 with NO HEALTH COVERAGE.
I could drop dead if you order extra blue cheese, because if it touches me I can go into anaphylactic shock, but I still do it anyway, and get paid $2.89 an hour whether you want to tip me or not.
I could slip and fall in the kitchen on a small spill and break a bone, and I still get paid $2.89 an hour, and Worker's Comp probably won't cover it.
I have clearance to look up credit card numbers from any charge that we had during the day and trace it back to where you live. I can find you in the blink of an eye if I had to, and because if it, I had to sign a privacy waiver! $2.89 an hour? SURE.
In the meantime, jump on Monster.com and find me a graphic design job in Rhode Island that doesn't require 5-10 years of experience. I guarantee you won't me find one.
I'm lucky to have a fucking job right now, and I have to stay here until something better comes around. I'm upset that Vermont didn't work out, but until Rhode Island pulls it's head out of it's ass, you better tip me, because I can guarantee I will bust my ass for you. I will risk my life and I will get your drinks and I will "Yes sir" the fuck out of you.
Pay your service charge, or leave 20% if it's not included. You don't want to tip? Eat McDonald's. Cheap ass motherfucker. I'm sick of this bullshit.
Fuck you all. I'm going to work, and I WILL make 22% tonight because I'M FUCKING AWESOME.
FUCK YOU OPRAH. Cheap ass cunt.
and FUCK YOU to those pieces of shit college kids in Philadelphia. I've made Brown University kids wash dishes before, I'd fucking do it to you too. Asswipes.
This all is why I cook my own food so much.
Quote from: Jerry_Frankster on November 19, 2009, 07:38:33 PM
As your attorney, I recommend you pay the tip, then take a shit in the bathroom sink.
\
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk316/Jerry_Frankster/Samoan_Attorney.jpg)
OOOOOOOOOOH!! Not enough fiber! Get me some coffee, bran flakes and 20 hits of acid.
\
(http://naimasnook.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/f__k_still_hunter_thompson_small.jpg)
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:29:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
So its a language problem... a 20% Service Charge will be added to parties of six or more.
It sounds better to say Gratuity though... the customer won't feel as ganked. ;-)
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
You have to. It's included on your cashout. That's what computers are for.
But according to the Dept of Labor, that is not a tip.... so what is it?
QuoteIt is to be distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
It's automatically declared for us. I over-declare anyway, but I like tax returns more than I like paychecks. My tips are my pay, the check is just for tax deductions.
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:45:56 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:29:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
So its a language problem... a 20% Service Charge will be added to parties of six or more.
It sounds better to say Gratuity though... the customer won't feel as ganked. ;-)
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
You have to. It's included on your cashout. That's what computers are for.
But according to the Dept of Labor, that is not a tip.... so what is it?
QuoteIt is to be distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
It's automatically declared for us. I over-declare anyway, but I like tax returns more than I like paychecks. My tips are my pay, the check is just for tax deductions.
So do they generally declare it as tips or wages?
Now you all fucking went and made me angry. Goddamnit. I better call the chef and give him a heads up, so when I start throwing things he's ready for it this time.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:45:56 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:29:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A SERVICE CHARGE IS NOT A 'TIP'
It's added to your bill, therefore upon reading the line in the menu that states that 20% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more, you're agreeing to the charge.
So its a language problem... a 20% Service Charge will be added to parties of six or more.
It sounds better to say Gratuity though... the customer won't feel as ganked. ;-)
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:26:34 PM
You have to. It's included on your cashout. That's what computers are for.
But according to the Dept of Labor, that is not a tip.... so what is it?
QuoteIt is to be distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service.
It's automatically declared for us. I over-declare anyway, but I like tax returns more than I like paychecks. My tips are my pay, the check is just for tax deductions.
So do they generally declare it as tips or wages?
Tips.
If you worked in Boston, I would eat there, and over tip you.
Also, because I'm me, I have to also say, "I'd give you more than just the tip..."
Sorry about that.
LMNO
-you really think he's sorry?
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:40:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 19, 2009, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
If you think it's unfair and you're a server then why did you agree to it in the first place?
Because no-one else is hiring.
Cain,
gets paid three times as much as Suu, and still doesn't think its fair for the work actually done.
I'm ServSafe, HAACP, and TIPS certified. I know that I could be putting my life on the line every time I plate a rare burger, but I get paid $2.89 an hour.
I have to scrape your nasty dirty plates which could be ridden with God-Knows-What bacteria, and handle dirty ass money, but I get paid $2.89 with NO HEALTH COVERAGE.
I could drop dead if you order extra blue cheese, because if it touches me I can go into anaphylactic shock, but I still do it anyway, and get paid $2.89 an hour whether you want to tip me or not.
I could slip and fall in the kitchen on a small spill and break a bone, and I still get paid $2.89 an hour, and Worker's Comp probably won't cover it.
I have clearance to look up credit card numbers from any charge that we had during the day and trace it back to where you live. I can find you in the blink of an eye if I had to, and because if it, I had to sign a privacy waiver! $2.89 an hour? SURE.
In the meantime, jump on Monster.com and find me a graphic design job in Rhode Island that doesn't require 5-10 years of experience. I guarantee you won't me find one.
I'm lucky to have a fucking job right now, and I have to stay here until something better comes around. I'm upset that Vermont didn't work out, but until Rhode Island pulls it's head out of it's ass, you better tip me, because I can guarantee I will bust my ass for you. I will risk my life and I will get your drinks and I will "Yes sir" the fuck out of you.
Pay your service charge, or leave 20% if it's not included. You don't want to tip? Eat McDonald's. Cheap ass motherfucker. I'm sick of this bullshit.
Fuck you all. I'm going to work, and I WILL make 22% tonight because I'M FUCKING AWESOME.
FUCK YOU OPRAH. Cheap ass cunt.
and FUCK YOU to those pieces of shit college kids in Philadelphia. I've made Brown University kids wash dishes before, I'd fucking do it to you too. Asswipes.
Design jobs are hard to find to begin with, it's even worse now with print tanking and a recession going on. You can always learn a new trade, that's what I had to do. There are other jobs out there that aren't design or food service. You might not get them, but it can't hurt to apply for them. You could also start applying for jobs at restaurants that cheapskates don't usually go to.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Well, then they should be plain and call it a service charge... no gratitude involved ;-)
Calling it a gratuity or tip makes people think its based on the service quality of the staff, instead of a "you have no choice, no matter how shitty the waiter was" service charge.
In this case, what you call it is a matter of semantics. I guarantee that any place which has an automatic gratuity will list it, and its terms, on the menu in plain sight. This is a common practice.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:36:16 PM
It was a joke you fucking jackasses.
I lack a degree in that subject, so I can't be held accountable for not getting it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:36:16 PM
It was a joke you fucking jackasses.
I lack a degree in that subject, so I can't be held accountable for not getting it.
YOU BEST EDUCATE YOURSELF FOOL!
\
:joshua:
Quote from: Z³ on November 19, 2009, 08:00:55 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Well, then they should be plain and call it a service charge... no gratitude involved ;-)
Calling it a gratuity or tip makes people think its based on the service quality of the staff, instead of a "you have no choice, no matter how shitty the waiter was" service charge.
In this case, what you call it is a matter of semantics. I guarantee that any place which has an automatic gratuity will list it, and its terms, on the menu in plain sight. This is a common practice.
That was my point exactly... IF you call it a tip,monkey brains will likely semantically connect to something like "Good Server = Good Tip, Bad Server = Bad Tip".
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: Z³ on November 19, 2009, 08:00:55 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Well, then they should be plain and call it a service charge... no gratitude involved ;-)
Calling it a gratuity or tip makes people think its based on the service quality of the staff, instead of a "you have no choice, no matter how shitty the waiter was" service charge.
In this case, what you call it is a matter of semantics. I guarantee that any place which has an automatic gratuity will list it, and its terms, on the menu in plain sight. This is a common practice.
That was my point exactly... IF you call it a tip,monkey brains will likely semantically connect to something like "Good Server = Good Tip, Bad Server = Bad Tip".
Actually, most of them will start thinking of reasons they shouldn't tip.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 08:22:14 PM
Actually, most of them will start thinking of reasons they shouldn't tip.
You make the world a darker place....
:lulz:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 08:22:14 PM
Actually, most of them will start thinking of reasons they shouldn't tip.
You make the world a darker place....
:lulz:
No, I just tell it like it is.
TGRR,
Doesn't make darkness, he makes darkness
better.
Actually, TGRR is a kleig light in a sewer.
Most people just don't like knowing what they've just stepped in.
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 08:26:06 PM
Actually, TGRR is a kleig light in a sewer.
Most people just don't like knowing what they've just stepped in.
So blame the guy with the flashlight. :lulz:
You just want them to kill the messenger, is all.
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 08:27:13 PM
You just want them to kill the messenger, is all.
Hush.
Of course you blame the guy with the flashlight!
Haven't you watched horror movies... the monster is always right beside you, but it never attacks till the idiot with the flashlight happens to catch it in the beam.
Fuckin guy with a flashlight :argh!:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 08:28:39 PM
Of course you blame the guy with the flashlight!
Haven't you watched horror movies... the monster is always right beside you, but it never attacks till the idiot with the flashlight happens to catch it in the beam.
Fuckin guy with a flashlight :argh!:
Hey, it would attack anyway. It just has a sense of theatrics. No flashlight = dead anyway. As evidence, I offer the end of the first Brandon Fraser Mummy movie.
It depends on the color of his shirt. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedShirt)
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: Z³ on November 19, 2009, 08:00:55 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Well, then they should be plain and call it a service charge... no gratitude involved ;-)
Calling it a gratuity or tip makes people think its based on the service quality of the staff, instead of a "you have no choice, no matter how shitty the waiter was" service charge.
In this case, what you call it is a matter of semantics. I guarantee that any place which has an automatic gratuity will list it, and its terms, on the menu in plain sight. This is a common practice.
That was my point exactly... IF you call it a tip,monkey brains will likely semantically connect to something like "Good Server = Good Tip, Bad Server = Bad Tip".
Which is how it should be, if your server does a shitty job they don't deserve a tip or a "service charge" or whatever the fuck you want to call it. If it's extra money beyond what the food costs, it's a goddamn tip.
We can go back and forth about this forever, ultimately it matters for fuck-all until someone fights it in court and the courts make a decision.
I'll agree that they should have to pay the large party fee. But looking at the article, I have to wonder what went on when the restaurant took the rest of the money, then called the cops after they left. :?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on November 19, 2009, 08:36:07 PM
I'll agree that they should have to pay the large party fee. But looking at the article, I have to wonder what went on when the restaurant took the rest of the money, then called the cops after they left. :?
The obvious solution is to fuck with the restaurant. Anyone with access to google care to dig up the location/phone #?
http://www.yelp.com/biz/lehigh-pub-bethlehem
4 E 4th St
Bethlehem, PA 18015
(610) 868-1313
Got poor reviews even before the incident.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in
recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be distinguished
from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service. Whether a tip is
to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the
customer, and generally he has the right to determine who shall be the
recipient of his gratuity.
edit: text added from link for TL;DR purposes
Yes. And when it is printed on the menu that it will be added and how much and they order they decided to tip that much.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 08:41:41 PM
http://www.yelp.com/biz/lehigh-pub-bethlehem
4 E 4th St
Bethlehem, PA 18015
(610) 868-1313
Got poor reviews even before the incident.
All the same, I shall try them.
Or at least make a reservation for 10 people. You guys should, too.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.55.htm (http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.55.htm)
QuoteA compulsory charge for service, such as 10 percent of the
amount of the bill, imposed on a customer by an employer's
establishment, is not a tip and, even if distributed by the employer to
his employees, cannot be counted as a tip received in applying the
provisions of section 3(m) and 3(t)
QuoteThe amounts received from customers are the employer's
property, not his, and do not constitute tip income to the employee.
and commentary on the legal status and the issues with this kind of scheme:
Quotehttp://divisionoflabour.com/archives/001607.php
dunno if HE has a law degree or not!
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on November 19, 2009, 08:55:15 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in
recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be distinguished
from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service. Whether a tip is
to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the
customer, and generally he has the right to determine who shall be the
recipient of his gratuity.
edit: text added from link for TL;DR purposes
Yes. And when it is printed on the menu that it will be added and how much and they order they decided to tip that much.
Hidden in tiny tiny print that you may not have even noticed.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on November 19, 2009, 08:55:15 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:19:19 PM
As a matter of law, Suu is correct.
Really Roger? Where'd you go to lawschool?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_531/29CFR531.52.htm
A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in
recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be distinguished
from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service. Whether a tip is
to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the
customer, and generally he has the right to determine who shall be the
recipient of his gratuity.
edit: text added from link for TL;DR purposes
Yes. And when it is printed on the menu that it will be added and how much and they order they decided to tip that much.
Hidden in tiny tiny print that you may not have even noticed.
Oh cool. You have a scan?
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 19, 2009, 08:33:44 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: Z³ on November 19, 2009, 08:00:55 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
It's a service charge. It's mandatory in my restaurant for parties of 6 or more, because large parties, especially college students, will stiff you all the time.
I don't expect you to tip me over the gratuity charge, and when you do it's nice, but for the love of god, please see rant!
Well, then they should be plain and call it a service charge... no gratitude involved ;-)
Calling it a gratuity or tip makes people think its based on the service quality of the staff, instead of a "you have no choice, no matter how shitty the waiter was" service charge.
In this case, what you call it is a matter of semantics. I guarantee that any place which has an automatic gratuity will list it, and its terms, on the menu in plain sight. This is a common practice.
That was my point exactly... IF you call it a tip,monkey brains will likely semantically connect to something like "Good Server = Good Tip, Bad Server = Bad Tip".
Which is how it should be, if your server does a shitty job they don't deserve a tip or a "service charge" or whatever the fuck you want to call it. If it's extra money beyond what the food costs, it's a goddamn tip.
We can go back and forth about this forever, ultimately it matters for fuck-all until someone fights it in court and the courts make a decision.
Where I work, if you indeed do a shitty job, and you talk to the management... they will usually compensate you, or knock down the gratuity charge, or eliminate it all together. Depending on circumstances this could result in the loss of the servers job.
... but you know, that sort of thing depends on the location, and there are more than a few restaurants that don't give a shit about the customer. For my money, I'd wager that there are more shitty customers out there who just want to be dicks about it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Heh. More like Psychology PhD, but... Heh.
We will be requiring proof of degrees for all further arguments on PD. It's the only way to be fair about these things.
So now I need to provide a copy of my degree in biology to prove that I know the fuck I'm talking about biology?
Slanket, what the fuck sort of logic is this? (and yes, I know I'm quoting roger, but I'm responding to YOU, Fnordie.)
Tip (haha, punny): if you don't have the money to splurge on eating out, then don't go out to eat. There are such things as GROCERY STORES, and OVENS and STOVES. And MICROWAVES, FFS. Americans are spoiled as fuck.
Quote from: Kai on November 19, 2009, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Heh. More like Psychology PhD, but... Heh.
We will be requiring proof of degrees for all further arguments on PD. It's the only way to be fair about these things.
Slanket, what the fuck sort of logic is this? (and yes, I know I'm quoting roger, but I'm responding to YOU, Fnordie.)
It's not logic, it's a joke you fucking mong. Jump into a wood chipper.
Just trying to understand what the fuck is going on in this thread and in your head.
Never mind that now. ESAD, fucknut.
Quote from: Kai on November 19, 2009, 09:37:14 PM
Just trying to understand what the fuck is going on in this thread and in your head.
Ah, well if you want to understand what's going on in the thread you might want to attempt reading it. Reading comprehension might not be your strong suit but you've got to start somewhere. If this thread is too much for you (it appears to be), you might want to try this:
http://www.magickeys.com/books/noblegnarble/index.html
Good luck and happy reading. It's tough at first but it's a skill that will prove useful in the future.
When I get home, I will give a detailed explanation of how things work in the service industry, until which you can all fuck off.
-Suu
fuck your semantics and raise the blast shields.
holy shit I'd like to know just who pissed in everyone's Wheaties this morning!?
Quote from: Sparkley Pink Shit on November 19, 2009, 10:53:32 PM
holy shit I'd like to know just who pissed in everyone's Wheaties this morning!?
Dunno, but I'm not leaving them a tip! :lulz:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 10:56:35 PM
Quote from: Sparkley Pink Shit on November 19, 2009, 10:53:32 PM
holy shit I'd like to know just who pissed in everyone's Wheaties this morning!?
Dunno, but I'm not leaving them a tip! :lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 19, 2009, 10:56:35 PM
Quote from: Sparkley Pink Shit on November 19, 2009, 10:53:32 PM
holy shit I'd like to know just who pissed in everyone's Wheaties this morning!?
Dunno, but I'm not leaving them a tip! :lulz:
:lulz:
It was me.
:hammer:
Hey Kai, how's that children's book coming along for you? What page have you made it to?
StD,
feels like shitting in yuor Wheeties.
Oh fuck yuou all. I'm too drink and tired to type.
Quote from: Suu on November 19, 2009, 07:40:42 PM
In the meantime, jump on Monster.com and find me a graphic design job in Rhode Island that doesn't require 5-10 years of experience. I guarantee you won't me find one.
How far can you commute? As I understand from your posts you're lacking a car, right? A month or so ago I heard that The Standard Times (New Bedford newspaper) will be hiring for their ads department, which I believe includes graphic design. I can check into it if you like.
Feel free to answer this when the following is no longer true:
Quote from: Suu on November 20, 2009, 04:43:25 AM
Oh fuck yuou all. I'm too drink and tired to type.
IM NOT GUESE ENOUGH FOR NEW BEDFORD.
and yea no car.
Quote from: Suu on November 20, 2009, 05:14:22 AM
IM NOT GUESE ENOUGH FOR NEW BEDFORD.
and yea no car.
Plenty of cheap rent around, I'm in a very nice one bedroom for $450/mo. I'm also not Portuguese at all. I think the city hasn't found out yet because they're still letting me live here.
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 20, 2009, 01:55:43 AM
It was me.
:hammer:
Hey Kai, how's that children's book coming along for you? What page have you made it to?
StD,
feels like shitting in yuor Wheeties.
No time for children's books, Slanket. Got caddisfly genetalia to stare at.
Quote from: Kai on November 20, 2009, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 20, 2009, 01:55:43 AM
It was me.
:hammer:
Hey Kai, how's that children's book coming along for you? What page have you made it to?
StD,
feels like shitting in yuor Wheeties.
No time for children's books, Slanket. Got caddisfly genetalia to stare at.
There's always time for bug porn.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on November 20, 2009, 05:17:07 AM
Quote from: Suu on November 20, 2009, 05:14:22 AM
IM NOT GUESE ENOUGH FOR NEW BEDFORD.
and yea no car.
Plenty of cheap rent around, I'm in a very nice one bedroom for $450/mo. I'm also not Portuguese at all. I think the city hasn't found out yet because they're still letting me live here.
GS is part Portuguese, I guess I could LOOK Portuguese, all I have to do is put Virgin Mary on my lawn in an old bathtub and have immaculately tended flowers...
Quote from: Kai on November 20, 2009, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: Slanket the Destroyer on November 20, 2009, 01:55:43 AM
It was me.
:hammer:
Hey Kai, how's that children's book coming along for you? What page have you made it to?
StD,
feels like shitting in yuor Wheeties.
No time for children's books, Slanket. Got caddisfly genetalia to stare at.
Is that like genitalia?
But seriously doesn't it seem funny sometimes to have all these Latin roots that have a similar sound yet a very different meaning?
Don't blame me, blame the Romans. And my bad spelling.
Quote from: Kai on November 20, 2009, 06:23:21 PM
Don't blame me, blame the Romans. And my bad spelling.
Oh Shi-- I was blaming the Romans... No I'm blaming your bad spelling as well,
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on November 20, 2009, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 20, 2009, 06:23:21 PM
Don't blame me, blame the Romans. And my bad spelling.
Oh Shi-- I was blaming the Romans... No I'm blaming your bad spelling as well,
You can't man, thats one of those duality thingers.
Quote from: Kai on November 20, 2009, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: A Pesky Nonvoting Screeching on November 20, 2009, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 20, 2009, 06:23:21 PM
Don't blame me, blame the Romans. And my bad spelling.
Oh Shi-- I was blaming the Romans... No I'm blaming your bad spelling as well,
You can't man, thats one of those duality thingers.
Um... Hey look, ELVIS!