Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
34.88%
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 09, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
34.88%
How did you measure? By volume, or by weirdness?
Tell them nothing. Forget sectioning you or taking the kids away. THEY JUST WANT THE THETANZEZ!!!
/
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50492_2202219623_3633_n.jpg)
I give this troll a 2/10, for lack of effort.
Was a time, a troll WORKED for his art.
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 08:56:54 PM
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 09, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
34.88%
How did you measure? By volume, or by weirdness?
No, it's a measure of the Lamanite-Wolfpoet Quotient, where %100 is a perfect blend of %100 volume of %100 weirdness.
Any amount of either volume or weirdness, in other words, as long as on the L-WP quotient they add up to %34.88
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
Actually, I checked, and "Masquerading" is a long-time member of the board.
So, here you go: It depends on the problem. Most times, the doctor involved is forbidden to release any information to any outside agency. In cases of severe mental illness, though, that can change, under new laws that govern firearm ownership, for example.
If you're depressed, see a regular doctor. If your toaster is telling you to shoot your congressman, see your regular doctor and ask for a referral.
Also, smash the toaster. Appliances have to know their place, and politics ain't it.
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
I did actually want an honest answer.
Thanks.
I am really not a danger to the kids nor myself. Just have alot of fucked up thoughts about humanity is all maybe.
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 08:56:54 PM
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 09, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
34.88%
How did you measure? By volume, or by weirdness?
It was a combination of volume, weirdness, and SCIENCE!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 09, 2011, 09:03:02 PM
Actually, I checked, and "Masquerading" is a long-time member of the board.
So, here you go: It depends on the problem. Most times, the doctor involved is forbidden to release any information to any outside agency. In cases of severe mental illness, though, that can change, under new laws that govern firearm ownership, for example.
If you're depressed, see a regular doctor. If your toaster is telling you to shoot your congressman, see your regular doctor and ask for a referral.
Also, smash the toaster. Appliances have to know their place, and politics ain't it.
:lulz:
And thanks too.
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
I did actually want an honest answer.
Thanks.
I am really not a danger to the kids nor myself. Just have alot of fucked up thoughts about humanity is all maybe.
Tell them everything they ask about, volunteer information if you think it'll help explain questions you've already answered further. And for the love of god don't let them take your Thetans.
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
I did actually want an honest answer.
Thanks.
I am really not a danger to the kids nor myself. Just have alot of fucked up thoughts about humanity is all maybe.
Everybody does. Hell, look around, here.
Assuming you don't tell anybody that you think humans should be used as a food source (have you SEEN the price of beef, lately??), and that you're considering changing the name of your kids to "Veal" and "Porkchop..."
Take it slow, shrinks know it's a trust thing, and SHOULD take time for you to get comfortable, anyway.
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
I did actually want an honest answer.
Thanks.
I am really not a danger to the kids nor myself. Just have alot of fucked up thoughts about humanity is all maybe.
Why on Earth would you need to see a shrink about THAT? If you WEREN'T thinking that the human race should be shot out of an airlock, THEN I'd worry.
My understanding is as long as you are not a danger to yourself, your children or anyone else you are good.
However, this is just what I've heard, not personal experience.
See a doctor first, then ask him/her for advice.
Do you need a shrink, or a therapist/counselor?
They're very different things.
They are required by law to report you to an appropriate agency if you reveal that you are harming or intend to harm yourself or someone else. Other than that, you can pretty much say anything.
Also, medical doctors are mostly useless except for referrals to shrinks. They'll just try to put you on antidepressants. Ask a friend or just use Google, and expect to talk to a few (good ones will let you meet with them for a free consultation) before you find one that clicks.
Therapists are required to have specific credentials; counselors aren't. Good luck!
Been to psychiatrists, counselors and therapists. It can help, at least having someone to vent everything about, and they might give you fun drugs if they deem you worthy.
There's no shame in seeing them, honestly.
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more, unless by "counselors" you're talking about lawyers.
Psychiatrists are for meat-based disorders. They aren't for emotional/psychological therapy. A well-trained, experienced therapist can do a fantastic job of helping a client sort out their issues and improve their life significantly. As a kid who went through fairly horrific abuse, and due to this abuse chose an abusive man in my first marriage, I can tell you that the reason I am a fairly happy and reasonably well-adjusted adult now is thanks to some excellent and diligent counselors and therapists. It sounds as if you may have had a bad experience with one, and I'm sorry to hear that.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 03:03:57 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more, unless by "counselors" you're talking about lawyers.
Psychiatrists are for meat-based disorders. They aren't for emotional/psychological therapy. A well-trained, experienced therapist can do a fantastic job of helping a client sort out their issues and improve their life significantly. As a kid who went through fairly horrific abuse, and due to this abuse chose an abusive man in my first marriage, I can tell you that the reason I am a fairly happy and reasonably well-adjusted adult now is thanks to some excellent and diligent counselors and therapists. It sounds as if you may have had a bad experience with one, and I'm sorry to hear that.
^that.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 03:03:57 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more, unless by "counselors" you're talking about lawyers.
Psychiatrists are for meat-based disorders. They aren't for emotional/psychological therapy. A well-trained, experienced therapist can do a fantastic job of helping a client sort out their issues and improve their life significantly. As a kid who went through fairly horrific abuse, and due to this abuse chose an abusive man in my first marriage, I can tell you that the reason I am a fairly happy and reasonably well-adjusted adult now is thanks to some excellent and diligent counselors and therapists. It sounds as if you may have had a bad experience with one, and I'm sorry to hear that.
My daugher had a whole string of them and they were all useless. Their whole schtick was "take a deep breath" and "keep a journal". I don't think they could effectively sort out a closet, much less anybody's issues.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 03:24:45 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 03:03:57 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more, unless by "counselors" you're talking about lawyers.
Psychiatrists are for meat-based disorders. They aren't for emotional/psychological therapy. A well-trained, experienced therapist can do a fantastic job of helping a client sort out their issues and improve their life significantly. As a kid who went through fairly horrific abuse, and due to this abuse chose an abusive man in my first marriage, I can tell you that the reason I am a fairly happy and reasonably well-adjusted adult now is thanks to some excellent and diligent counselors and therapists. It sounds as if you may have had a bad experience with one, and I'm sorry to hear that.
My daugher had a whole string of them and they were all useless. Their whole schtick was "take a deep breath" and "keep a journal". I don't think they could effectively sort out a closet, much less anybody's issues.
Sounds like your daughter saw a string of shit ones then.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 03:24:45 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 03:03:57 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more, unless by "counselors" you're talking about lawyers.
Psychiatrists are for meat-based disorders. They aren't for emotional/psychological therapy. A well-trained, experienced therapist can do a fantastic job of helping a client sort out their issues and improve their life significantly. As a kid who went through fairly horrific abuse, and due to this abuse chose an abusive man in my first marriage, I can tell you that the reason I am a fairly happy and reasonably well-adjusted adult now is thanks to some excellent and diligent counselors and therapists. It sounds as if you may have had a bad experience with one, and I'm sorry to hear that.
My daugher had a whole string of them and they were all useless. Their whole schtick was "take a deep breath" and "keep a journal". I don't think they could effectively sort out a closet, much less anybody's issues.
Not to be a dick, but therapy only works on a client who is willing to do the emotional and psychological work involved. Perhaps your daughter saw a string of bad therapists, but if she saw several different ones and didn't get anything out of any of them, it's quite possible that she simply didn't want to sack up and do the work, and that really isn't anyone else's problem.
My brother blew his brains out when he was 23. Could a therapist have helped him? Almost certainly. But he wasn't willing. It was easier to opt out.
My daughter's fine, in spite of the string of shit counselors. :D And yeah, she did the journals, pointless though that was.
I hear drug counselors are even worse, all they have to do is complete a residential treatment program and if they can't find a real job, they're in like Flynn. One of them told the guy across the street that the only way he's gonna stay clean is Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 02:22:50 AM
Also, medical doctors are mostly useless except for referrals to shrinks.
Mostly.
Of course, I had to go through 2 pill pushers before I got one that figured out there was a serious physiological problem.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 03:52:32 AM
My daughter's fine, in spite of the string of shit counselors. :D And yeah, she did the journals, pointless though that was.
I hear drug counselors are even worse, all they have to do is complete a residential treatment program and if they can't find a real job, they're in like Flynn. One of them told the guy across the street that the only way he's gonna stay clean is Jesus Christ.
Once again, it comes down to the individual. Some drug counselors are great, some have even been addicts themselves and know exactly what the persons going through, others (like RWHN) have never touched them but seem pretty straight up and empathetic to an addicts problems.
You need to shop around I think in those cases. But yeah, fuck the ones who are actually just another secret indoctrination front for Jevus
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 03:52:32 AM
My daughter's fine, in spite of the string of shit counselors. :D And yeah, she did the journals, pointless though that was.
I hear drug counselors are even worse, all they have to do is complete a residential treatment program and if they can't find a real job, they're in like Flynn. One of them told the guy across the street that the only way he's gonna stay clean is Jesus Christ.
Doing journals isn't the work I refer to. I am talking about actually delving down into your own issues and examining yourself, which can be really uncomfortable and many people resist it.
Frankly, telling people not to go to therapy when they need it because your daughter didn't get much out of the experience is kind of irresponsible.
"Hey, don't try to find help to sort out your neuroses and improve your joy in life! A family member of mine tried it and it didn't work, so you should avoid it".
Seriously, Stella... I like you, but that is absolutely terrible advice that could potentially do someone harm. I don't even understand why you would tell anyone that. Yes, therapists are people... you can extrapolate the rest. That's why doing a consultation or getting a recommendation from trusted friends is a good idea.
Journaling, BTW, is not "pointless" if you're actually examining yourself. You get out of it what you put in, though.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 03:58:47 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 02:22:50 AM
Also, medical doctors are mostly useless except for referrals to shrinks.
Mostly.
Of course, I had to go through 2 pill pushers before I got one that figured out there was a serious physiological problem.
That shit drives me fucking crazy. I have had to practically fend off the offers of pills before, for things that really needed to be handled in other ways.
Nigel, maybe your state regs are different...where I live, "delving into issues" is something people do with a clinical psychologist, not a counselor...
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 04:32:25 AM
Nigel, maybe your state regs are different...where I live, "delving into issues" is something people do with a clinical psychologist, not a counselor...
Stella, it's blatantly obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about here, and I don't really understand why you insist on blustering through.
Since state regulations differ, there is a reason I used the words "Trained and experienced therapist".
I recommend you go back and read the words I actually wrote, and then maybe read the words you actually wrote. And then think about them.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
You dismiss "the entire profession" (of therapy?) as "a farce", and then state that "Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok."
Psychiatrists and psychologists are not the same thing. A trained and licensed psychologist would be a type of therapist or counselor, not a psychiatrist.
http://www.sos.state.or.us/archives/rules/OARS_800/OAR_833/833_030.html
http://www.sos.state.or.us/archives/rules/OARS_800/OAR_833/833_040.html
Again, my only point here is to discourage you from telling people not to seek help. It's irresponsible.
You're in Texas, right? http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/OC/htm/OC.503.htm
Nigel, years of observation and I've seen nothing but snake oil. If you want to believe in them, that's you. As far as I'm concerned, they suck. Not sure why that bothers you so much.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 05:26:40 AM
Nigel, years of observation and I've seen nothing but snake oil. If you want to believe in them, that's you. As far as I'm concerned, they suck. Not sure why that bothers you so much.
Because you just told someone who expressed psychological distress not to go to a psychologist for help.
That bothers me. I'm funny that way. And yeah, I guess I "believe in" psychology, sort of like I "believe in" gravity and the sun. :lulz:
So, on what, exactly, do you base your decision to "believe in" psychiatrists, but not psychologists? What makes psychiatrists exempt from your disbelief in the field of mental health care?
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:12:19 AM
You're in Texas, right? http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/OC/htm/OC.503.htm
Subchapter B looks like it might be the hole that the idiots get through...
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:36:04 AM
So, on what, exactly, do you base your decision to "believe in" psychiatrists, but not psychologists? What makes psychiatrists exempt from your disbelief in the field of mental health care?
I knew one once. He was actually intelligent.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 05:36:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:12:19 AM
You're in Texas, right? http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/OC/htm/OC.503.htm
Subchapter B looks like it might be the hole that the idiots get through...
I don't think you're reading it correctly. What do you think it means? Did you look at the requirements for licensing?
As the links prove quite thoroughly, in order to be
licensed in either your state or mine as a counselor, you must have at least a master's degree in psychology, or in social work with a psychology background.
Rather than mere observation, I have many years of direct personal experience with therapy, as well as seeing many other people helped significantly by therapy with trained and experienced counselors.
If you want to backpedal a bit and modify your complaint to apply only to unlicensed counselors, I'll get off your case about it. Because it's not hard to agree that unlicensed counselors have no real credentials, can't be said to be properly trained, and are probably peddling a load of bunk.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 05:39:09 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:36:04 AM
So, on what, exactly, do you base your decision to "believe in" psychiatrists, but not psychologists? What makes psychiatrists exempt from your disbelief in the field of mental health care?
I knew one once. He was actually intelligent.
Well, I know a physicist who's a real asshole, so I stopped believing in mass. :lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:50:37 AM
If you want to backpedal a bit and modify your complaint to apply only to unlicensed counselors, I'll get off your case about it. Because it's not hard to agree that unlicensed counselors have no real credentials, can't be said to be properly trained, and are probably peddling a load of bunk.
Looking at the link, I suppose the bulk of them are unlicensed. I didn't know that, so it's not a backpedal...just assumed that if somebody had a
counseling practice, it would imply some kind of license. The Rumplestiltskin rule: look for "licensed professional counselor", exact words, not "certified professional counselor" or "licensed counselor" or any of that.
Which doesn't help 99% of the people running around, since the best ones are probably in the major cities, not affordable, don't take Medicaid, etc. And judges stipulate druggies to whatever is cheap.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:52:46 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 05:39:09 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:36:04 AM
So, on what, exactly, do you base your decision to "believe in" psychiatrists, but not psychologists? What makes psychiatrists exempt from your disbelief in the field of mental health care?
I knew one once. He was actually intelligent.
Well, I know a physicist who's a real asshole, so I stopped believing in mass. :lulz:
I know a proctologist who...oh, never mind. :lulz:
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:03:55 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 05:50:37 AM
If you want to backpedal a bit and modify your complaint to apply only to unlicensed counselors, I'll get off your case about it. Because it's not hard to agree that unlicensed counselors have no real credentials, can't be said to be properly trained, and are probably peddling a load of bunk.
Looking at the link, I suppose the bulk of them are unlicensed. I didn't know that, so it's not a backpedal...just assumed that if somebody had a counseling practice, it would imply some kind of license. The Rumplestiltskin rule: look for "licensed professional counselor", exact words, not "certified professional counselor" or "licensed counselor" or any of that.
Which doesn't help 99% of the people running around, since the best ones are probably in the major cities, not affordable, don't take Medicaid, etc. And judges stipulate druggies to whatever is cheap.
What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.
I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find? Once again, I have to mention the "willing participant" part. That hardly seems like a scenario that would have a positive result, and I also have to say, if she went to "a string" of counselors and none of them helped, there's one common denominator there. I'm glad your kid finally held herself responsible for her own life and got off the drugs.
Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of unlicensed counselors seem to pop up everywhere these days and some of them are huuuuge fucking scams.
I remember this one organisation that charged THOUSANDS for really rich and stupid clients,I remember finding it looking for jobs in counselling, the description read "No experience necessary, starting salery $40+ an hour" and apparently all you had to do was learn some "amazing new technique" that some random person I have never heard of before and couldn't find any information on besides their on website, was a guaranteed cure all for *everything*.
I don't know how they're allowed to practice when it sounds like some sort of ponzi scheme in counselling form.
Quote from: Lies on May 10, 2011, 06:16:19 AM
Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of unlicensed counselors seem to pop up everywhere these days and some of them are huuuuge fucking scams.
I remember this one organisation that charged THOUSANDS for really rich and stupid clients,I remember finding it looking for jobs in counselling, the description read "No experience necessary, starting salery $40+ an hour" and apparently all you had to do was learn some "amazing new technique" that some random person I have never heard of before and couldn't find any information on besides their on website, was a guaranteed cure all for *everything*.
I don't know how they're allowed to practice when it sounds like some sort of ponzi scheme in counselling form.
Because anyone can give anyone else advice. (Except for legal advice, of course. Lawyers know how to keep it tight.) Even bad advice. Otherwise, this thread would be illegal.
That's why it's our job as consumers to do a little research. Fortunately, the government and educational systems have teamed up to make it as easy for us as they can, and of course referrals from happy clients help as well.
I went to a social worker counselor and found it helpful.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:16:07 AM
What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.
Unlicensed dentists are a rarity. Unlicensed counselors are the vast majority. And most people don't know the "licensed professional counselor" magic words. They look in the phone book, not state websites.
Quote
I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find?
No, she was molested. She had anger issues. Thus the "just take a deep breath" bullshit. That, and the journaling. The counselors would ask her if she was keeping up her journal and she would say "yes" and that was the end of it.
BTW, when judges remand people into treatment, it's the judge who tells them where they're going for treatment.
I also have to point out that "99.9% of the people running around" don't live far away from a city, aren't on Medicaid, and aren't druggies.
Affordable? That can be harder to manage. Mine charges me $30/session because I'm poor.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:10 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:16:07 AM
What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.
Unlicensed dentists are a rarity. Unlicensed counselors are the vast majority. And most people don't know the "licensed professional counselor" magic words. They look in the phone book, not state websites.
Quote
I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find?
No, she was molested. She had anger issues. Thus the "just take a deep breath" bullshit. That, and the journaling. The counselors would ask her if she was keeping up her journal and she would say "yes" and that was the end of it.
BTW, when judges remand people into treatment, it's the judge who tells them where they're going for treatment.
OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors? I'm trying to figure out the relevance. When judges remand people into
treatment, they tell them where they're going for
treatment. When a judge orders counseling, the court order usually only stipulates that the person must go to counseling, not where. A judge wouldn't legally be able to remand someone to go to a non-state-licensed counselor. A judge can also court-order drug treatment and not specify where.
I was also molested, raped, and had an abusive/neglected family life. I had pretty bad PTSD. As I mentioned in another thread, I went to a few therapists before I found one who worked for me, and I did a lot of work... which you would probably consider "bullshit"... and that "bullshit" helped a LOT. But then, I took responsibility for my own recovery. Nobody made me go, and when one therapist's style didn't work for me, I went to another until I found one who did. I went from being angry, scared, suicidal, and untouchable to being a pretty normal well-adjusted person.
I really have to challenge your statements that "unlicensed counselors are the vast majority" and "most people don't know the "Licensed Professional Counselor" magic words. Anyone who calls themselves a "Therapist" has to be licensed, by law. All those letters after their names... LPC, LMFT, LCSW, MFT, MSW... tells you what kind of degree and license they have. That's why they put them on their doors, and on their business cards.
I posed as a social worker once and Fred found it very helpful.
Quote from: Risus on May 10, 2011, 07:33:48 AM
I posed as a social worker once and Fred found it very helpful.
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:49:25 AM
OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors?
Because we were talking about counselors generally, not her in particular, so it's not beside the point. Tons of people get sent to substance abuse counseling.
Quote
I'm trying to figure out the relevance. When judges remand people into treatment, they tell them where they're going for treatment. When a judge orders counseling, the court order usually only stipulates that the person must go to counseling, not where. A judge wouldn't legally be able to remand someone to go to a non-state-licensed counselor. A judge can also court-order drug treatment and not specify where.
Conditions of probation do. You always see those: "Suspended on condition that so-and-so attend counseling at blahblah.."
Quote
I was also molested, raped, and had an abusive/neglected family life. I had pretty bad PTSD. As I mentioned in another thread, I went to a few therapists before I found one who worked for me, and I did a lot of work... which you would probably consider "bullshit"... and that "bullshit" helped a LOT. But then, I took responsibility for my own recovery. Nobody made me go, and when one therapist's style didn't work for me, I went to another until I found one who did. I went from being angry, scared, suicidal, and untouchable to being a pretty normal well-adjusted person.
I suspect a lot of it was you, then. Just sayin'.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:39:12 AM
I also have to point out that "99.9% of the people running around" don't live far away from a city, aren't on Medicaid, and aren't druggies.
Affordable? That can be harder to manage. Mine charges me $30/session because I'm poor.
Ok, there's usually a city less than 100 miles away.
So, assuming somebody will do it for $30 a session, that's $120 a month. Plus gas, or go greyhound - fifty miles greyhound will run you about $50 round trip these days. Plus time off work, in most cases. Sessions are usually weekly, so that's over $300 a month plus lost wages. Not cheap.
I once knew an unlicensed cardiologist, and she broke my heart ...
(BTW over here it's kinda easy, if they're not licensed, healthcare won't cover it. If you gotta spend your own money, you will want to do proper research on how good they are--even if they are licensed and healthcare doesn't cover it for some other reason)
My general advice about psychiatrists/counselors/therapists: Like Nigel said, find one that offers free initial consultation. And be very discriminating. If they don't sit right with you, or maybe you don't quite feel you can "connect" with them, get another one ASAP, cause you're wasting your time. That doesn't mean they're not good BTW, just that they're not good for you (so don't feel sorry for them, and you can be honest with them about this. if they get angry for this reason then you know they're just not good). The important thing I learned is, these people have a lot of experience, and they have a certain way of doing what they do. If that way doesn't work for you, don't wait until it gets better, because it won't, and you're placing your trust in somebody that isn't quite going to help you as good as possible.
In fact, this advice works for pretty much any kind of medical person/doctor. I recently talked my mother into getting a new physiotherapist (she just got a new knee), because she wasn't entirely sure about him. And since time is of the essence in this case (any improvements must happen in the first 3 months, after that no amount of physio is going to provide significant mobility improvements), I urged her not to wait until this guy got a clue (I won't go into details, but he's going to get a claim). She told me she got a new one and it was "like a warm bath", the new guy was shocked about the lack of improvement so far, but he said "well it's going to hurt, but we're going to train hard and make this work", and from what I heard, I'm pretty confident he will.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:00:49 AM
I really have to challenge your statements that "unlicensed counselors are the vast majority" and "most people don't know the "Licensed Professional Counselor" magic words. Anyone who calls themselves a "Therapist" has to be licensed, by law. All those letters after their names... LPC, LMFT, LCSW, MFT, MSW... tells you what kind of degree and license they have. That's why they put them on their doors, and on their business cards.
Yes. And speaking with my professional hat, those letters are very important. In my business, I wouldn't recommend a kid to see a drug counselor unless they have, at minimum, an LADC. I talked before how in one of our school systems we have this person who is called a substance abuse counselor, but she doesn't actually have the state-recognized LADC credentials. It means she hasn't had the same rigor of education and training as an LADC, and is not equipped to give adequate and
evidence-based treatment. I wouldn't recommend anyone see an untrained or unlicensed counselor. And most state-licensed counselors are going to have some kind of sliding-fee scale for their services.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 02:22:50 AM
Also, medical doctors are mostly useless except for referrals to shrinks. They'll just try to put you on antidepressants. Ask a friend or just use Google, and expect to talk to a few (good ones will let you meet with them for a free consultation) before you find one that clicks.
Therapists are required to have specific credentials; counselors aren't. Good luck!
There is a lot of medical problems that can cause mood disorders, such as pancreas infections.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:52:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:49:25 AM
OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors?
Because we were talking about counselors generally, not her in particular, so it's not beside the point. Tons of people get sent to substance abuse counseling.
Funny, because I thought this thread was about the OP's question. Silly me!
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:57:34 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:39:12 AM
I also have to point out that "99.9% of the people running around" don't live far away from a city, aren't on Medicaid, and aren't druggies.
Affordable? That can be harder to manage. Mine charges me $30/session because I'm poor.
Ok, there's usually a city less than 100 miles away.
So, assuming somebody will do it for $30 a session, that's $120 a month. Plus gas, or go greyhound - fifty miles greyhound will run you about $50 round trip these days. Plus time off work, in most cases. Sessions are usually weekly, so that's over $300 a month plus lost wages. Not cheap.
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Not sure if this is how it is in the states, but here you can't even really see a psychologist unless you get a referral from a doctor, and counselors also give referrals to doctors.
When my mental problems became unbearable I went to see a counselor cause I thought that is what people did. It was the counselor who realized it was medical related and I signed me up with my current doctor. My doctor did all the necessary medical tests (pancreas, liver, ect) and gave me precipitation to anti-psychotics to get me to sleep. Then she did all the necessary referrals to psychiatrists. She actually monitors my treatment and if I like the psychiatrist, ect. Would probably be the same if I had to see a psychologist.
My doctor is also a super hot blond.
I don't know why I added that part.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:49:25 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:10 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:16:07 AM
What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.
Unlicensed dentists are a rarity. Unlicensed counselors are the vast majority. And most people don't know the "licensed professional counselor" magic words. They look in the phone book, not state websites.
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I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find?
No, she was molested. She had anger issues. Thus the "just take a deep breath" bullshit. That, and the journaling. The counselors would ask her if she was keeping up her journal and she would say "yes" and that was the end of it.
BTW, when judges remand people into treatment, it's the judge who tells them where they're going for treatment.
OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors? I'm trying to figure out the relevance. When judges remand people into treatment, they tell them where they're going for treatment. When a judge orders counseling, the court order usually only stipulates that the person must go to counseling, not where. A judge wouldn't legally be able to remand someone to go to a non-state-licensed counselor. A judge can also court-order drug treatment and not specify where.
Just to be clear here, counseling IS treatment. That is, it is a form of treatment. And I would also say that if a judge is telling someone where they need to go for treatment, they are doing it wrong, and possibly breaking the law. A person, ethically, should have a choice of provider. In my state, it is mandated by law that a child seeking counseling have a choice of provider. Adults need to have that choice as well. It may turn out that the choices are so limited that, in the end, they only have one choice, but they still should have the power to make that choice.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on May 10, 2011, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 02:22:50 AM
Also, medical doctors are mostly useless except for referrals to shrinks. They'll just try to put you on antidepressants. Ask a friend or just use Google, and expect to talk to a few (good ones will let you meet with them for a free consultation) before you find one that clicks.
Therapists are required to have specific credentials; counselors aren't. Good luck!
There is a lot of medical problems that can cause mood disorders, such as pancreas infections.
The "medical doctors are mostly useless" line is really lacking context and that's my own fault; I thought about modifying it, because of course medical doctors ARE very useful for many things, but by the time I thought about it, it was a page in. I should have said, if you're having psychological issues other than straightforward depression, an MD is unlikely to be very useful.
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 10, 2011, 04:36:28 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:49:25 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:10 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:16:07 AM
What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.
Unlicensed dentists are a rarity. Unlicensed counselors are the vast majority. And most people don't know the "licensed professional counselor" magic words. They look in the phone book, not state websites.
Quote
I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find?
No, she was molested. She had anger issues. Thus the "just take a deep breath" bullshit. That, and the journaling. The counselors would ask her if she was keeping up her journal and she would say "yes" and that was the end of it.
BTW, when judges remand people into treatment, it's the judge who tells them where they're going for treatment.
OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors? I'm trying to figure out the relevance. When judges remand people into treatment, they tell them where they're going for treatment. When a judge orders counseling, the court order usually only stipulates that the person must go to counseling, not where. A judge wouldn't legally be able to remand someone to go to a non-state-licensed counselor. A judge can also court-order drug treatment and not specify where.
Just to be clear here, counseling IS treatment. That is, it is a form of treatment. And I would also say that if a judge is telling someone where they need to go for treatment, they are doing it wrong, and possibly breaking the law. A person, ethically, should have a choice of provider. In my state, it is mandated by law that a child seeking counseling have a choice of provider. It may turn out that the choices are so limited that, in the end, they only have one choice, but they still should have the power to make that choice.
I was thinking of state-run institutional rehab... the places that addicts get sent to instead of jail. In my state, those are the only places I'm aware a judge may directly remand someone into. Otherwise they are just ordered to get treatment, their choice of where.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on May 10, 2011, 04:35:27 PM
Not sure if this is how it is in the states, but here you can't even really see a psychologist unless you get a referral from a doctor, and counselors also give referrals to doctors.
When my mental problems became unbearable I went to see a counselor cause I thought that is what people did. It was the counselor who realized it was medical related and I signed me up with my current doctor. My doctor did all the necessary medical tests (pancreas, liver, ect) and gave me precipitation to anti-psychotics to get me to sleep. Then she did all the necessary referrals to psychiatrists. She actually monitors my treatment and if I like the psychiatrist, ect. Would probably be the same if I had to see a psychologist.
My doctor is also a super hot blond.
I don't know why I added that part.
It's very different here. If you have insurance, you might need a referral depending on your coverage, but for the most part you just pick someone and start seeing them. If unsure, you can ask your doctor for a referral, though; pretty much all doctors have lists of therapists they refer to. So referrals are available, but not required. A therapist will collaborate with your doctor if you ask them to and sign a release permitting it; otherwise they are subject to the same privacy laws your doctor is.
Psychiatrists are a little different; they are usually affiliated with a hospital and require a referral. Likewise with certain specialists, like neuropsychologists.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
I have nothing to add to this conversation. No. This is not my first BBQ, and if anyone here thinks I'm dumb enough to get between Nigel & Stella, they have another fucking thing coming.
Just saying.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 06:42:48 PM
I have nothing to add to this conversation. No. This is not my first BBQ, and if anyone here thinks I'm dumb enough to get between Nigel & Stella, they have another fucking thing coming.
Just saying.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.
I already answered that question, earlier in this thread.
Anyway, I am done with this conversation, it's going in circles.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.
It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better. Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant.
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 10, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.
It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better. Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant.
And they need to understand it's a PROCESS, and that they have to WORK. It's not like popping a week of antibiotics, or setting a bone.
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 10, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.
It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better. Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant.
True...so many times it's forced on people.
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:48:10 PM
Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 10, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.
A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.
Quote
I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.
Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.
Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.
Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.
My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.
It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better. Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant.
And they need to understand it's a PROCESS, and that they have to WORK. It's not like popping a week of antibiotics, or setting a bone.
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
THIS. :D
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:59:20 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
THIS. :D
His point, of course, was that damn few people have that one friend.
Best friends are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody having them. The whole concept is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a friend, or you're ok.
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 07:59:20 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
His point, of course, was that damn few people have that one friend.
THIS. :D
Several friends you trust with several different types of things'll do it.
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."
20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.
My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 10, 2011, 08:09:00 PM
Best friends are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody having them. The whole concept is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a friend, or you're ok.
:mittens:
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."
20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.
My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.
True, this. I can patch up a cut if it requires a band-aid, but if it needs stitches, see Richter, I'm sure he's got a needle and some thread somewhere... and if it needs surgery, get your ass to the hospital.
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."
20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.
My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.
This is why I love my therapist, and why I don't talk about certain things with my friends.
Quote from: Eve Hill on May 11, 2011, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."
20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.
My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.
This is why I love my therapist, and why I don't talk about certain things with my friends.
Totally.
A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 01:56:12 AM
A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result.
Right
which is why 20 years of friendship with some of the most brilliant people on the planet failed to yield that result
thanks, peanut gallery. :lol:
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
And, for the record, my friends are mostly exactly the kind of people who use terms like "boundary issues".
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Your last reply was to a personal post about my actual experience, FYI.
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Your last reply was to a personal post about my actual experience, FYI.
I've been noticing that. Several observations/experiences I mentioned seem to be, according to you, a "personal post about your actual experience". Okaaaaay...
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:11:20 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
I did actually want an honest answer.
Thanks.
I am really not a danger to the kids nor myself. Just have alot of fucked up thoughts about humanity is all maybe.
Everybody does. Hell, look around, here.
Assuming you don't tell anybody that you think humans should be used as a food source (have you SEEN the price of beef, lately??), and that you're considering changing the name of your kids to "Veal" and "Porkchop..."
Take it slow, shrinks know it's a trust thing, and SHOULD take time for you to get comfortable, anyway.
Good point.
Will definitely take it slow.
Thanks for the input Luna.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 09, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 09, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: masquerading on May 09, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
Thinking of seeing one and was wondering if any of yous had any experience with this. Specifically- How much of how you truly feel can you tell these guys without the white coats coming to take you (or your kids) away?
If you actually want an honest answer to this...
Tell them everything. If you or your kids NEED to be taken away, particularly for the safety of said kids, then, for fuck's sake, let them. If you're unscrewed in the gourd enough to be judged a danger, then why WOULDN'T you?
I did actually want an honest answer.
Thanks.
I am really not a danger to the kids nor myself. Just have alot of fucked up thoughts about humanity is all maybe.
Why on Earth would you need to see a shrink about THAT? If you WEREN'T thinking that the human race should be shot out of an airlock, THEN I'd worry.
Another valid point.
But It's starting to affect me more and more every day. I see all the shit that I never wanted to be a part of- the fucked up, run around, be a fucking spoke in the wheel sort of shit that I always told myself I would never be a part of. It seems I was lying to myself. Because I am finding that in order to live in the society we live in, my values and beliefs are being compromised. And it's driving me fucking nuts.
Also-I want to get unplugged from the nets a while but I work here and more so-when i do go out and see how Really Fucked Up Humanity is I end up just wanting to hide. When In Fact I Should Be Standing Up And DOING Something About It. Bleh.
I guess that's why we have forums too though,eh-To Rant and Remind us of what we need to be doing.
:)
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Your last reply was to a personal post about my actual experience, FYI.
I've been noticing that. Several observations/experiences I mentioned seem to be, according to you, a "personal post about your actual experience". Okaaaaay...
Um... no. The post you replied to was a post
I made myself that was specifically about my personal experience. That's not open to debate.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 06:42:48 PM
I have nothing to add to this conversation. No. This is not my first BBQ, and if anyone here thinks I'm dumb enough to get between Nigel & Stella, they have another fucking thing coming.
Just saying.
Agreed. :lol:
So-Hey-Thanks for all the input guys.
Some good posts in here that help.
Outcome: Fuck it- Cancelled my appt. for now.
Maybe another time for now-I'll just suck it in and deal-just like about 99% of the rest of everyone.
:lol:
Quote from: masquerading on May 11, 2011, 03:57:45 PM
So-Hey-Thanks for all the input guys.
Some good posts in here that help.
Outcome: Fuck it- Cancelled my appt. for now.
Maybe another time for now-I'll just suck it in and deal-just like about 99% of the rest of everyone.
:lol:
If it, or something similar, is bugging you next month I would suggest you go. If not, don't.
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Your last reply was to a personal post about my actual experience, FYI.
I've been noticing that. Several observations/experiences I mentioned seem to be, according to you, a "personal post about your actual experience". Okaaaaay...
Um... no. The post you replied to was a post I made myself that was specifically about my personal experience. That's not open to debate.
I see.
No input allowed that's not in total agreement with what you said.
Okaaaaay...
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 04:01:57 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Your last reply was to a personal post about my actual experience, FYI.
I've been noticing that. Several observations/experiences I mentioned seem to be, according to you, a "personal post about your actual experience". Okaaaaay...
Um... no. The post you replied to was a post I made myself that was specifically about my personal experience. That's not open to debate.
I see.
No input allowed that's not in total agreement with what you said.
Okaaaaay...
That's not it at all. It's that it is, in general, pretty disrespectful to make comments on people personal stuff that implies that you know better than they do about their own lives. You have twice, now, tried to tell me that I would have done just as well without therapy. I am here to tell you that you are completely full of shit, have no idea what you're talking about, and every time you try to push that line you make yourself look a little bit more like a jackass. :)
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 04:01:57 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 03:03:58 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.
Personalizing ITT
Your last reply was to a personal post about my actual experience, FYI.
I've been noticing that. Several observations/experiences I mentioned seem to be, according to you, a "personal post about your actual experience". Okaaaaay...
Um... no. The post you replied to was a post I made myself that was specifically about my personal experience. That's not open to debate.
I see.
No input allowed that's not in total agreement with what you said.
Okaaaaay...
That's not it at all. It's that it is, in general, pretty disrespectful to make comments on people personal stuff that implies that you know better than they do about their own lives. You have twice, now, tried to tell me that I would have done just as well without therapy. I am here to tell you that you are completely full of shit, have no idea what you're talking about, and every time you try to push that line you make yourself look a little bit more like a jackass. :)
Pls to point out where I said "Nigel, YOU would have done just as well without therapy."
Again, personalizing ITT.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
There. Nigel falls into the category of "anybody".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 11, 2011, 07:17:01 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
There. Nigel falls into the category of "anybody".
That was early in the thread, before I knew that none of the ones that people I've known have dealt with were certified. When that was cleared up, I allowed that a competent one could do some good.
Nigel's taking stuff like "A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result." and somehow getting "YOU need to stay out of therapy" out of it.
Looking over this thread, I would rather suggest she stay
in therapy.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 07:26:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 11, 2011, 07:17:01 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 10, 2011, 02:55:39 AM
Counselors are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody going to them who isn't trying to make a court case go away. The whole profession is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a psychiatrist or you're ok.
There. Nigel falls into the category of "anybody".
That was early in the thread, before I knew that none of the ones that people I've known have dealt with were certified. When that was cleared up, I allowed that a competent one could do some good.
Nigel's taking stuff like "A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result." and somehow getting "YOU need to stay out of therapy" out of it.
Looking over this thread, I would rather suggest she stay in therapy.
I'd like to ask you - and Nigel - as a personal favor, to let this drop.
You both may now tell me to fuck off and die in a fire.
I'm cool with it, Rog.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 07:34:30 PM
I'm cool with it, Rog.
Thank you.
Frankly, I think you and Nigel will make the best team since those two chicks who drive off the cliff at the end of the movie. Hate to see you fight over something this inconsequential.
I posted this: Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 08:13:11 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 10, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 10, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.
I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.
"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."
I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."
20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.
My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.
You posted this: Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 01:56:12 AM
A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 11, 2011, 07:43:48 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 07:34:30 PM
I'm cool with it, Rog.
Thank you.
Frankly, I think you and Nigel will make the best team since those two chicks who drive off the cliff at the end of the movie. Hate to see you fight over something this inconsequential.
I don't really find it inconsequential, actually. But I'll drop it if she'll quit second-guessing my mental hygiene choices. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 11, 2011, 07:43:48 PM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 11, 2011, 07:34:30 PM
I'm cool with it, Rog.
Thank you.
Frankly, I think you and Nigel will make the best team since those two chicks who drive off the cliff at the end of the movie. Hate to see you fight over something this inconsequential.
:D
One of these days...ROAD TRIP!!!
Quote from: masquerading on May 11, 2011, 03:57:45 PM
So-Hey-Thanks for all the input guys.
Some good posts in here that help.
Outcome: Fuck it- Cancelled my appt. for now.
Maybe another time for now-I'll just suck it in and deal-just like about 99% of the rest of everyone.
:lol:
I have found guerrilla/ninja postering (posterGASM) to be kinda therapeutic for the times when I start to hate all of humanity at once.
Check out the OMGASM forum and start printing Surrealism to inflict on the other primates locked in their reality tunnels.