Shrinks...

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.

It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better.  Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant. 

True...so many times it's forced on people.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.

It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better.  Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant. 

And they need to understand it's a PROCESS, and that they have to WORK.  It's not like popping a week of antibiotics, or setting a bone.

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

[Luna]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

THIS. 

[Luna]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

THIS.  

His point, of course, was that damn few people have that one friend. 

[LMNO]

Best friends are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody having them. The whole concept is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a friend, or you're ok.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

His point, of course, was that damn few people have that one friend. 
THIS. 

Several friends you trust with several different types of things'll do it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."

20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.

My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Best friends are a complete waste of human skin, no point in anybody having them. The whole concept is a total farce. Either you're bad off enough for a friend, or you're ok.

[Luna]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."

20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.

My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.

True, this.  I can patch up a cut if it requires a band-aid, but if it needs stitches, see Richter, I'm sure he's got a needle and some thread somewhere... and if it needs surgery, get your ass to the hospital.

[Eve Hill]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."

20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.

My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.

This is why I love my therapist, and why I don't talk about certain things with my friends.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, to what both of you said! It's not like a counselor can work magic... they can't MAKE you get better, they can only HELP you get better. You're still the one doing all the work, and it's not easy. Sitting in an office for an hour a week talking about your problems won't solve them.

I still remember what the professor of my first psych course in college told us.

"If everyone had ONE friend that they could talk about ANYTHING with, that they trusted completely... psychologists would be out of business."

I think that's (mostly) true for people without major deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood abuse or neglect. I have several very, very close friends who know everything about me. They know more about me than my therapist ever will, because I talk to them for many hours every week. Unfortunately, they don't really know what I need to do to work through having had a parent with Borderline Personality Disorder, and the way my mother's abuse and neglect affects my attachments as an adult. They don't really know how to help me process the leftover impact of having been raped at 15, that is now so buried within my personality that it's hard to even sort out where it came from. They talk to me about it, and that's great, but someone who has eight years of specialized schooling and fifteen years of dedicated practice focused on helping people fairly quickly move through very serious issues like that, and become more healthy and functional in their relationships, is going to be able to help me better and faster than my friends are able. My friends might say "Oh, Nigel's a sweetheart, but she's hot-headed and blows up sometimes". My therapist listened to me for a while and said "I think you have boundary issues. You don't defend your boundaries very well, and then you become angry when people trespass over them. You don't give yourself enough respect to demand that people respect you. Here; work on these boundary-enforcing exercises."

20 years of talking to close friends, and not one of them suggested this. Suddenly, Nigel is no longer a hothead. Suddenly, Nigel no longer feels put-upon, because Nigel is learning to say "back off" BEFORE someone crosses her boundaries.

My friends are smart as fuck, too. A medical doctor, an Oxford PhD, a Master of Public Health, a chemistry PhD, and a biophysicist. But they weren't trained to see the problems a psychologist is trained to see, nor trained how to fix them.

This is why I love my therapist, and why I don't talk about certain things with my friends.

Totally.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A friend probably wouldn't use a term like "boundary issues" but they might say something like "why'd you let it get to that point?" Same result.

Right

which is why 20 years of friendship with some of the most brilliant people on the planet failed to yield that result

thanks, peanut gallery. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

As I've mentioned before, Stella dear, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment on my life as if you know more about it than I do.

And, for the record, my friends are mostly exactly the kind of people who use terms like "boundary issues".