Anon has made some interesting waves this week.
First off, they have claimed to ID the Oakland PD officer which shot Scott Olsen.
http://www.indiepundit.com/2011/10/29/iraq-war-vet-scott-olsen-police-shooter-identified-by-anonymous/
Next up (Cain, want to weigh in on this one?)
Anon has threatened the Zeta Cartel of Mexico (who have kidnapped an Anon member off the streets for postering activity). If the kidnapped Anon is harmed or not released they say they will start releasing full Dox on local community members (businessmen, journalist, etc) who are in the pay or have paid off the Zetas.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Online-hackers-threaten-to-expose-cartel-secrets-2242068.php
Very, very interesting!
Fucking hell.. My kid's in Veracruz. I thought they were mostly keeping a low profile in the gulf cities.
It's not a very big city at all, not by any standard, but is still the biggest port in Mexico.
What the hell do they hope to accomplish by fucking around in Veracruz? Land based trafficking is still their best method. I've been through a customs check on board a vessel in Mexico. Unless you have that shit strapped under the hull, they're going to find it.
:|
Fucking cartels.
Hour talk with my son's mother. They're getting really ballsy. She's afraid to take taxis now because the Zetas (or whoever) are buying them off. They can hear gun shots across the lagoon they live on some nights. They don't even trust the police that patrol their neighborhood anymore. They don't leave the house at night unless they have to.
She pointed me here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Balaceras-En-Veracruz/230586906974093
for those with facebook, and can read Spanish.
I'll give it to them. The people and friends I made in Veracruz, the vibe I got from the people I met there, they aren't the sort to be cowed. They're the sort that would become a part of the "acciones anti narcos" that are returning heads of Zetas members.
Fucking hell. I understood Calderon's reasoning, and even support it with regards to stopping the flow of cocaine. I'm ambivalent on the pot, but I understand it is still a driving force for cash to fund the cartels.
Looking at ways now to get my son out of the country. Thanks for the post Tel. I got distracted from the important stuff for a bit.
Quote from: Telarus on October 30, 2011, 10:37:58 PM
Anon has made some interesting waves this week.
First off, they have claimed to ID the Oakland PD officer which shot Scott Olsen.
http://www.indiepundit.com/2011/10/29/iraq-war-vet-scott-olsen-police-shooter-identified-by-anonymous/
Next up (Cain, want to weigh in on this one?)
Anon has threatened the Zeta Cartel of Mexico (who have kidnapped an Anon member off the streets for postering activity). If the kidnapped Anon is harmed or not released they say they will start releasing full Dox on local community members (businessmen, journalist, etc) who are in the pay or have paid off the Zetas.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Online-hackers-threaten-to-expose-cartel-secrets-2242068.php
This is amazing. Do you think they can follow through?
Anon may want to think again if they're going to mess with Los Zetas.
Even the hint of compromised financial data concerning the backers of the Zetas is going to bring down their wrath. And, well, unlike everyone else Anonymous has picked on so far, Los Zeta don't have rules. They're former Mexican Special Forces, federal paramilitaries and the like who decided working for the cartels was more profitable than working for the state. You think offing a few dozen script-kiddie wannabe hackers is even going to give them pause for thought? They were probably shooting unarmed people to death before they decided to go mercenary. They've systematically betrayed and destoyed some of the most entrenched cartels in order to reach the top, to the point I'm beginning to wonder if they're not a deniable Mexican government op.
Anonymous are in over their depth.
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2011, 08:36:26 AM
Anon may want to think again if they're going to mess with Los Zetas.
Even the hint of compromised financial data concerning the backers of the Zetas is going to bring down their wrath. And, well, unlike everyone else Anonymous has picked on so far, Los Zeta don't have rules. They're former Mexican Special Forces, federal paramilitaries and the like who decided working for the cartels was more profitable than working for the state. You think offing a few dozen script-kiddie wannabe hackers is even going to give them pause for thought? They were probably shooting unarmed people to death before they decided to go mercenary. They've systematically betrayed and destoyed some of the most entrenched cartels in order to reach the top, to the point I'm beginning to wonder if they're not a deniable Mexican government op.
Anonymous are in over their depth.
I am not so sure. I think that Anonymous has absorbed some pretty serious people, and their people, in the last year. I think that challenging the Zetas may be a baby step for some of the people currently identifying as Anonymous, and that things will get more serious in the upcoming year.
Quote from: Nigel on October 31, 2011, 11:06:27 AM
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2011, 08:36:26 AM
Anon may want to think again if they're going to mess with Los Zetas.
Even the hint of compromised financial data concerning the backers of the Zetas is going to bring down their wrath. And, well, unlike everyone else Anonymous has picked on so far, Los Zeta don't have rules. They're former Mexican Special Forces, federal paramilitaries and the like who decided working for the cartels was more profitable than working for the state. You think offing a few dozen script-kiddie wannabe hackers is even going to give them pause for thought? They were probably shooting unarmed people to death before they decided to go mercenary. They've systematically betrayed and destoyed some of the most entrenched cartels in order to reach the top, to the point I'm beginning to wonder if they're not a deniable Mexican government op.
Anonymous are in over their depth.
I am not so sure. I think that Anonymous has absorbed some pretty serious people, and their people, in the last year. I think that challenging the Zetas may be a baby step for some of the people currently identifying as Anonymous, and that things will get more serious in the upcoming year.
I think you are giving them way too much credit, even lulzsec which was lightyears ahead of anon could only muster up strength on a cause by cause basis and even that was sporadic at best.
Anon do well when they're well organized. Sure, they've got plenty of script-kiddies and other 1337 H4x0rs, but there are some really good hackers working with them. But that only happens when they unite and put their shit together for a given cause. Most of the time lots of drama ensues, as they split into groups, start fighting and finally accomplish nothing.
I would say, if anything, Anonymous are weaker now, due to arrests having thinned out their more high profile hackers.
Furthermore, Los Zetas are not going to contest this through the courts or the internet. They're going to play to their strengths, which involves intimidation, beatdowns and ultimately murder.
Whoever the Anons are who issued this ultimatum, they are not unaware or apparently concerned about that action.
What kind of reach do the Zetas have outside of Mexico?
Quote from: deadfong on October 31, 2011, 02:04:49 PM
What kind of reach do the Zetas have outside of Mexico?
According to the Obama administration, enough to off a Saudi ambassador on behalf of the Islamic Republic. :lulz:
Well, good idea or not, they've started:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/118146622799388835070/posts/Gv3dQReHYpr
Quote
Anonymous Making Good on Threats to Expose Drug Cartel
After a member of Anonymous was kidnapped by the infamous Los Zetas drug cartel they announced a campaign to out drug cartel members and supporters from politicians to journalists. The first name has been exposed. A politician named Gustavo Rosario. His website has been defaced with the message "Gustavo Rosario is Zeta" in Spanish.
The website is still defaced if you want to check it out: hxxp://www.gustavorosario.com/
#Anonymous #OpCartel #kidnapping
I've heard mentioned that one of the major sources of leverage in this situation is that the OTHER cartels now know who one of the Zeta's guys are.
I'm guessing both Rosario and the kidnapped Anon will end up dead then....
There is apparently some discord among Anon (http://www.milenio.com/cdb/doc/noticias2011/d66c3c523c60b03240b8c4d4c4d79de4)about whether OpCartel is canceled?
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2011, 12:14:28 PM
I would say, if anything, Anonymous are weaker now, due to arrests having thinned out their more high profile hackers.
Furthermore, Los Zetas are not going to contest this through the courts or the internet. They're going to play to their strengths, which involves intimidation, beatdowns and ultimately murder.
We really have no way of knowing who is claiming to be part of Anonymous, and arrests of some hackers could certainly draw the participation of better hackers who are not so public or ostentatious.
William Gibson is a prophet...
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
I don't know about that, given that we have no idea who "they" are.
I find this and other recent developments incredibly interesting.
Quote from: Nigel on October 31, 2011, 05:50:42 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
I don't know about that, given that we have no idea who "they" are.
I find this and other recent developments incredibly interesting.
I agree... the Drug cartels seem savvy in using guns and physical force... but do they have kick ass hackers on their payroll that can track down Anon? If so, do they have people in place to take out hackers in *insert any number of countries here*. Finally, who will work the most quickly? If we assume that Anon actually has names of key allies, then they're potentially one Tweet away from giving Los Zetas a serious headache. If they tag the right people, they could, in theory put a hamper on the cartel's response.
Of course, the hackers could end up dead... which is pretty bad, but then that is the risk when anyone takes a stand against the more powerful. Franklin, Jefferson, Washington could all have had their heads disconnected for their action. The Lebanese that pushed against the Syrians a few years ago could have had very bad car accidents. US vets that protest the banking industry could get shot in the head...
oh....
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
What if they actually manage to remain anonymous, for a change?
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 31, 2011, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
What if they actually manage to remain anonymous, for a change?
Unlikely considering their track history. One if the reasons lulzsec was set up was because of idiots in anonymous being unable to play it safe.
Quote from: Faust on October 31, 2011, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 31, 2011, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
What if they actually manage to remain anonymous, for a change? :lol:
Unlikely considering their track history. One if the reasons lulzsec was set up was because of idiots in anonymous being unable to play it safe.
And lulzsec sure did a fine job of staying anonymous.
I have simply noticed that people claiming Anonymous as an identity are getting increasingly sophisticated. Anonymous is evolving in an interesting direction.
There were some, lots left for lulzsec and they did accomplish a lot in a short period of time. The splinter groups tend to do well and attract talent while most avoid the main body and sites because they have become so infiltrated with government spooks.
Quote from: Faust on October 31, 2011, 07:32:44 PM
There were some, lots left for lulzsec and they did accomplish a lot in a short period of time. The splinter groups tend to do well and attract talent while most avoid the main body and sites because they have become so infiltrated with government spooks.
And 14-year-olds. Don't forget those.
Quote from: Faust on October 31, 2011, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 31, 2011, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
What if they actually manage to remain anonymous, for a change?
Unlikely considering their track history. One if the reasons lulzsec was set up was because of idiots in anonymous being unable to play it safe.
Maybe. Though I find it hard to pin a track history on them since it's different people every time around.
If I'd had to make a guess I'd find it more likely every iteration learns from the previous mistakes (up to some point), than that the "Anonymous formula" is inherently non-anonymous, if you get my drift. If they keep getting exposed, I'd change my mind, of course, but it can go either way, IMO.
I would imagine the guys taking on the Zetas to be super duper careful, though.
A day later and several deaththreats on...
Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists (http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/report-anonymous-cancels-operation-cartel.php)
:lulz:
That didn't take long.
I admire their confidence, but they're still not quite ready for prime-time.
Another possibility, just throwing it out there, is they got a bunch of kids releasing this withdrawal statement under the Anonymous banner.
There's one additional risk (well, there's many, but one I just thought of), when battling corporations or governments, they gotta play by some sort of rules. Not as much rules as we'd like perhaps, but still.
Even their unofficial channels are somewhat official. When you're trying to stay anonymous on Facebook or somewhere else on the web, inevitably part of your reasoning will go "but they're not allowed to access this data--easily--and won't be able to trace back this connection", but these Zetas (about whom I know very little btw) supposedly got "bought" or "protected" peons just about everywhere, right?
That means all bets are off.
Also, the Zetas are not above indiscriminately killing off a few innocent people if that sends the right message or furthers their goals. Which is something that is much harder (though not impossible, as we've seen) for corporations or governments to do.
This kind of changes the whole game, even if you're really good and well-practised in the state-of-the-art anonymity measures and precautions, you need to re-think a whole bunch of assumptions, reconsider a lot of those out-there paranoid speculations you read about but dismissed because you were fairly certain they weren't part of the game. Even if you're a mythical elite oldskool hacker named Case or Hiro Protagonist.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
I admire them, as this is the best example of TAKING IT TO THE WALL, ever, but they're doomed.
This wouldn't be the first time people have died indiscriminately because of anon. Sabu is saying the release of documents is still on for the fifth (which is a bit peevish to be honest when Sabu himself is from the other side of the world).
:lulz:
yeah, because Los Zetas can't afford a plane ticket to Japan.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 02, 2011, 12:31:52 PM
:lulz:
yeah, because Los Zetas can't afford a plane ticket to Japan.
They would probably only need to make a phone call, this kind of shit is an embarrasment for all gangs worldwide, I'm sure there are contacts willing to lend a helping hand anywhere in the world.
Quote from: Faust on November 02, 2011, 08:56:50 AM
This wouldn't be the first time people have died indiscriminately because of anon. Sabu is saying the release of documents is still on for the fifth (which is a bit peevish to be honest when Sabu himself is from the other side of the world).
When they've killed as many people with the truth as my government has with lies, let me know.
Quote from: Faust on November 02, 2011, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 02, 2011, 12:31:52 PM
:lulz:
yeah, because Los Zetas can't afford a plane ticket to Japan.
They would probably only need to make a phone call, this kind of shit is an embarrasment for all gangs worldwide, I'm sure there are contacts willing to lend a helping hand anywhere in the world.
Not sure if there's a whole lot of contact between the Zetas and Yakuza, but, I'm sure someone knows someone.
If Los Zetas have dealings with Peruvian organised crime, and given the amount of coca in the country this is not unlikely, then they have contacts in Japan.
We know Hezbollah have a presence in South America, as do the Italian 'Ndrangheta. World's a small place, yo.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2011, 12:35:27 AM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
I admire them, as this is the best example of TAKING IT TO THE WALL, ever, but they're doomed.
The interesting thing is that they may well be doomed, but they're taking a fuckton of people with them.
Quote from: Nigel on November 02, 2011, 03:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2011, 12:35:27 AM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 31, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Yikes.
I admire Anon for having the balls to even consider this, but they're in way over their heads.
I admire them, as this is the best example of TAKING IT TO THE WALL, ever, but they're doomed.
The interesting thing is that they may well be doomed, but they're taking a fuckton of people with them.
If the truths that behind your existence are fatal, then perhaps it's time to change those truths. With a different name, in a far-off land, in a career that doesn't involve smuggling, human trade, etc. These aren't plaster saints that are being dragged out into the light of day.
True, most of them aren't actually cartel members, but only the people
that make the cartel's business possible.
I think the point wasn't so much that this will result in the deaths of people involved with the cartels but that it will result in the deaths of people involved with Anonymous.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 02, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
I think the point wasn't so much that this will result in the deaths of people involved with the cartels but that it will result in the deaths of people involved with Anonymous.
It'll do both!
Quote from: Cain on November 02, 2011, 03:53:01 PM
If Los Zetas have dealings with Peruvian organised crime, and given the amount of coca in the country this is not unlikely, then they have contacts in Japan.
We know Hezbollah have a presence in South America, as do the Italian 'Ndrangheta. World's a small place, yo.
Sayeth the wikipedia (but note the citation needed):
QuoteMexico
Yakuza in Mexico are most notably involved in illegal immigration. There were cases in the 1990s of yakuza recruiting young women (mainly with diplomas and good English knowledge) with promises of legitimate work in Japan.[citation needed] When the women arrived in Japan they were forced into prostitution. Some women were able to escape their employers and return home to Mexico and alert authorities. In some incidents, Mexican authorities were able to apprehend the yakuza members and deported them as illegal immigrants.
Similar incidents have also occurred in Peru where women have been enticed to work in Japan. The Association of Hispanic Women Against Discrimination and Gender Violence or "Women in Action" estimates nearly 3,000 Mexican women recruited by the various yakuza clans prostitute themselves in Japan.[citation needed]
I am fascinated by mainstream media's spin: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-20128981/anonymous-vs-zetas-in-clash-of-shadow-groups/
Quote from: Nigel on November 02, 2011, 04:45:18 PM
I am fascinated by mainstream media's spin: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-20128981/anonymous-vs-zetas-in-clash-of-shadow-groups/
The mainstream media, of course, would very much like to see Anon get their collective heads cut off in Tampico. Anon is running around telling the truth, and the media has a vested interest in that not occurring. For further information, google "Assange, Julian, media treatment of".
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 02, 2011, 04:47:51 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 02, 2011, 04:45:18 PM
I am fascinated by mainstream media's spin: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-20128981/anonymous-vs-zetas-in-clash-of-shadow-groups/
The mainstream media, of course, would very much like to see Anon get their collective heads cut off in Tampico. Anon is running around telling the truth, and the media has a vested interest in that not occurring. For further information, google "Assange, Julian, media treatment of".
Yes, indeed.
I love how easy it is to interpret the level of seriousness as an inverse proportion to the mainstream media's efforts at dismissal. Here, there is a combined effort to belittle Anonymous as insignificant and disorganized, releasing information that is little more than rumor, and yet also a conflicting message, which is that the Zetas will kill them and anyone associated with them. It's a combination of effort to diminish the threat and a fear tactic. This tells me that CBS, at least, is regarding the case of Anonymous vs. Zetas very, very seriously.
Any time a major news outlet takes the time to report on something to tell you that it's not very significant at all, it is absolutely significant and people are freaking the fuck out.
Quote from: Nigel on November 02, 2011, 04:57:57 PM
Any time a major news outlet takes the time to report on something to tell you that it's not very significant at all, it is absolutely significant and people are freaking the fuck out.
This is a really good point which I will definitely keep in mind.
The member of Anon that got hijacked got set free 0.o
ETA: The hijackers instructed him to make public a message, which hasnt been released yet.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 04, 2011, 03:56:27 AM
The member of Anon that got hijacked got set free 0.o
ETA: The hijackers instructed him to make public a message, which hasnt been released yet.
Whoa
I'm really curious!
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 04, 2011, 03:56:27 AM
The member of Anon that got hijacked got set free 0.o
ETA: The hijackers instructed him to make public a message, which hasnt been released yet.
Source? Can't find it on fail phone Google.
This would hardly mean safety for anyone involved, would it? They have little to lose by releasing them to prevent the names being leaked and then retaliating at their leisure.
Quote from: Beardman Meow on November 04, 2011, 04:33:08 AM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 04, 2011, 03:56:27 AM
The member of Anon that got hijacked got set free 0.o
ETA: The hijackers instructed him to make public a message, which hasnt been released yet.
Source? Can't find it on fail phone Google.
This would hardly mean safety for anyone involved, would it? They have little to lose by releasing them to prevent the names being leaked and then retaliating at their leisure.
A leisurely retaliation would certainly result in the names being leaked, though. I mean, Anonymous members start getting offed, and other Anonymous members will probably release the names. Depending on how many people actually have access to the data.
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/806141.html (http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/806141.html)
Quotethe hacker collective Anonymous Iberoamerica informed that the symphatizer that was allegedly hijacked in Veracruz by Zetas is now free...
http://pastebin.com/XZRpjUZq
QuoteThe Anon who had been kidnapped last month by the Zetas has been released, although it appears that the Zetas concerned did not know that the individual was the Anon whose release had been demanded by those who instigated #OpCartel. As such, no bargain has been fulfilled. Meanwhile, those who have been in possession of the e-mails have promised to provide them to me alone, which is to say that everything that proceeds from now on is my own work, and not that of Anonymous. Any reprisals against anyone other than myself, then, will have no effect.
As I've told several journalists today, I will be proceeding carefully and with the assistance of several parties who are equipped to assess the contents of these e-mails and particularly those portions dealing with Zeta collaborators. I'll announce the next step in a few days.
Finally, much of the reaction that this affair has received, particularly the dozens of often malicious predictions of my upcoming murder by the Zetas, is among the most degenerate displays I have yet seen. The idea that I should refrain from assisting in the naming of probable criminals operating in a foreign country without a working judicial system lest I be murdered is a cowardly sentiment. No individual living in the free world should refrain from working to fight injustice simply because there is a possibility of retaliation. Less important, but equally inane, have been the hundreds of comments and even media reports in which I am described as "foolish" for taking a risk in the course of something I believe in. Those objections dealing with possible repercussions to innocent third parties are reasonable, and I have made an effort to address those; those objections to the effect that an American ought not assist his fellows who have themselves risked their lives for this cause is informed only by a sick culture that is destined for destruction and replacement. If, by some chance, I am indeed killed by the Zetas, I will at least not have to contend ever again with the irritating and, frankly, faggy outpourings of a population that has proven itself incompetent to rule the empire that has been provided to it on the backs of others. Amrite?
Barrett Brown
transistor@hushmail.com
Buuuurrrrrn!
Yep. Whoever Barrett Brown is, he's got a few rounds of beers on me coming his way should the opportunity ever present itself.
Brown is
NOT releasing names
QuoteAs is now widely known, the kidnapped Anon was indeed known to the Zetas as such, contrary to my reports from last night, during which I was only in sporadic communication with the person's friends. As the Zetas left a note with the person threatening to kill ten civilians for every name published, none of us will be proceeding with those particular names. Nonetheless, several of the 25,000 e-mails are being sent to Der Spiegel for confirmation, and in the meanwhile I will be going after other cartels with the assistance of those who have come forward with new information and offers of assistance. To provide information for this operation, which I'll be conducting with additional help from certain media outlets, e-mail me at transistor@hushmail.com.
http://pastebin.com/XZRpjUZq
Thats a retarded way to rationalize and pussyfoot with the consequences their acts are bringing on.
Just because communication was established with the Zetas and they came into an "agreement" with them, doesnt mean other cartels wont take action just because they didnt make an "agreement" with Anon, and arent about to go on a killing frenzy as they do every single day.
And the "technicality" that they didnt release it themselves, but sent it to a german newspaper to be eventually released? Really? The fact is that people are going to die from all these actions, because some asshole wants to play hero from the safety of thousands of miles.
And fuck you if you think that intervening on a foreign country for JUSTICEtm or ANTICORRUPTIONtm that all these smudgy people dont have the "courage" to get themselves is good. To me its just the same as invading to defend DEMOCRACYtm
Narco involved people are still people, fuck you. :argh!:
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 06, 2011, 06:00:00 AM
Thats a retarded way to rationalize and pussyfoot with the consequences their acts are bringing on.
Just because communication was established with the Zetas and they came into an "agreement" with them, doesnt mean other cartels wont take action just because they didnt make an "agreement" with Anon, and arent about to go on a killing frenzy as they do every single day.
And the "technicality" that they didnt release it themselves, but sent it to a german newspaper to be eventually released? Really? The fact is that people are going to die from all these actions, because some asshole wants to play hero from the safety of thousands of miles.
And fuck you if you think that intervening on a foreign country for JUSTICEtm or ANTICORRUPTIONtm that all these smudgy people dont have the "courage" to get themselves is good. To me its just the same as invading to defend DEMOCRACYtm
Narco involved people are still people, fuck you. :argh!:
So, it is your argument that Anon should avoid any situation that may involve brown people?
So the guys with the guns gave in to the guys with computers.... I may end up loving this century.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 07, 2011, 01:52:51 AM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 06, 2011, 06:00:00 AM
Thats a retarded way to rationalize and pussyfoot with the consequences their acts are bringing on.
Just because communication was established with the Zetas and they came into an "agreement" with them, doesnt mean other cartels wont take action just because they didnt make an "agreement" with Anon, and arent about to go on a killing frenzy as they do every single day.
And the "technicality" that they didnt release it themselves, but sent it to a german newspaper to be eventually released? Really? The fact is that people are going to die from all these actions, because some asshole wants to play hero from the safety of thousands of miles.
And fuck you if you think that intervening on a foreign country for JUSTICEtm or ANTICORRUPTIONtm that all these smudgy people dont have the "courage" to get themselves is good. To me its just the same as invading to defend DEMOCRACYtm
Narco involved people are still people, fuck you. :argh!:
So, it is your argument that Anon should avoid any situation that may involve brown people?
Speaking in a more composed manner...
They are targeting the symptoms and not the causes - giving away some names is only going to provoke executions, with new corrupt people taking their places...
And yes, radicals might say "fine, fuck them, let the corrupt people get killed", but that to me is a monstrous claim...
First worlders and medium to high class people surely can sympathize with the "war on drugs", because druglords are "terrorists" or whatever, but they dont take into consideration the context from which those druglords emerged... they emerged from a context full of poverty... so as ive said before, its the neoliberal economic model and the extreme poverty which is the origin of all of this, its not something that emerged out of nowhere
yeah, I see what you're saying and I think I agree.
Speaking strictly for myself, I have no problem with the narcos in general. My desire to see people get fucked over and/or eliminated extends strictly to the Zetas, who I see as having no respect for the "rules of the game" and who IMO are so egregious and blatant in their unsavory tactics that it's giving other narcos a bad name and making it more difficult for them to make an "honest" living.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 08, 2011, 01:09:36 AM
yeah, I see what you're saying and I think I agree.
Speaking strictly for myself, I have no problem with the narcos in general. My desire to see people get fucked over and/or eliminated extends strictly to the Zetas, who I see as having no respect for the "rules of the game" and who IMO are so egregious and blatant in their unsavory tactics that it's giving other narcos a bad name and making it more difficult for them to make an "honest" living.
Supporting the guys that make and sell drugs... whatever.
Supporting the guys that behead people, shoot and kidnap uninvolved civilians, etc. Fuck em.
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at. You're never gonna stop the drug trade, but there's no reason it has to be violent outside of it's own circles. But the Zetas are the greater of all evils in this context.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 08, 2011, 01:16:11 PM
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at. You're never gonna stop the drug trade, but there's no reason it has to be violent outside of it's own circles. But the Zetas are the greater of all evils in this context.
But surely its better for some brown people to lose their lives than for drugs to be legal in the US. I mean, THINK OF THE CHILDREN (at least the white ones).
I'm not even framing it in the context of legalization, as I don't see Mexico as being likely to legalize the drug trade even if we legalize posession/consumption. And I don't see us going further than legalizing pot so I'm pretty sure the coke and meth trades will remain as profitable as ever. But again, the intrinsic violence of the drug trade need not extend beyond those directly involved in the drug trade.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 08, 2011, 01:16:11 PM
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at. You're never gonna stop the drug trade, but there's no reason it has to be violent outside of it's own circles. But the Zetas are the greater of all evils in this context.
"La Familia" SUPPOSEDLY works under a traditional ideology under which members are SUPPOSED to be "decent".
But you know what, that to me is only a seduction towards the public and others so that they THINK that "La Familia" are the "good guys" and the Zetas are the "bad guys".
Which ultimately is only propaganda so they can have support agaisnt the Zetas and take a bigger share of the market of drug dealing while ultimately doing the same shit.
And foreigners, as well as Anonymous (also some of the mexican population) are falling prey to the lies that "La Familia" is better/decent.
P.S. I welcome any information that proves that "La Familia" are "decent" by comparison to Zetas.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 08, 2011, 08:09:01 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 08, 2011, 01:16:11 PM
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at. You're never gonna stop the drug trade, but there's no reason it has to be violent outside of it's own circles. But the Zetas are the greater of all evils in this context.
"La Familia" SUPPOSEDLY works under a traditional ideology under which members are SUPPOSED to be "decent".
But you know what, that to me is only a seduction towards the public and others so that they THINK that "La Familia" are the "good guys" and the Zetas are the "bad guys".
Which ultimately is only propaganda so they can have support agaisnt the Zetas and take a bigger share of the market of drug dealing while ultimately doing the same shit.
And foreigners, as well as Anonymous (also some of the mexican population) are falling prey to the lies that "La Familia" is better/decent.
P.S. I welcome any information that proves that "La Familia" are "decent" by comparison to Zetas.
I haven't seen any news stories about La Familia beheading cops and kidnapping random people... so maybe its just that they have better PR, I dunno.
http://news.yahoo.com/mexican-drug-cartel-tries-silence-internet-224155885.html
"MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico's hyperviolent Zetas drug cartel appears to be launching what may be one of the first campaigns by an organized crime group to silence commentary on the Internet.
The cartel has already attacked rivals, journalists and other perceived enemies. Now, the target is an online chat room, Nuevo Laredo en Vivo, that allows users to comment on the activities of the Zetas and others in the city on the border with Texas.
Already, three apparent site users have been slain, and a fourth victim may have been discovered Wednesday, when a man's decapitated body was found with what residents said was a banner suggesting he was killed for posting on the site. Chat room users said they could not immediately confirm the victim's identity, because people all post under aliases.
Despite such precautions, users are highly vulnerable, and the Zetas could be tracking them from clues they leave online, experts said Thursday."
Its like the start of a cyberpunk novel.
Given the state of Mexican prisons (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-15630892), I'm not so sure what Los Zetas are afraid of:
QuoteA surprise inspection in a prison in Mexico has revealed the presence of 19 prostitutes, 100 plasma televisions, two sacks of marijuana, and 100 cockerels for cock fighting.
The discovery in the prison in Acapulco came as police prepared to transfer the inmates to a maximum security jail.
The officers also found six female inmates living in the male section of the prison and two peacocks.
Mexican jails are notorious for overcrowding, corruption and rioting.
It is not the first time luxury items like TVs and weapons have been found in a Mexican jail.
In July, prisoners in a jail in Sonora state were found to be running a lottery to raffle off a luxury cell they'd equipped with a fridge, DVD player and air conditioning.
An inspector from the State Commission for the Defence of Human Rights, Hipolito Lugo Cortes, recently denounced conditions in five prisons in Guerrero state, among them the one in Acapulco.
He said inmates were running affairs at these penitentiaries according to their own laws and customs, with little or no control by prison authorities.
Peacocks??
I like how weapons a e considered "luxury items". :lulz: