Well, The Good Reverend is gone, last seen getting into his Jeep with his friend Knuckles. He screamed something about heading up The Lost Highway, looking for that Curly fellow. And we all know what happens to people who follow that road, don't we?
So here I am again, back in The Waiting Place. The Ego Place. The Black Iron Prison Place. That horrible little place where people fool themselves into believing that they have somehow avoided buying into the system, while at the same time behaving in a manner indistinguishable from the system in any way. Really, there's not much difference between The Waiting Place and any given awards ceremony, with packs of divas demanding attention, hordes of hangers-on watching avidly from home, and a few folks on the make.
Seriously, now...Did you ever really think you'd escape? Well, you won't accomplish that here. There's too much bad blood, and too many people who think this place is here for "ME", not for "US". There's a remarkable lack of anything resembling cohesion of any kind, and I don't think that's what was meant by "Discordians must stick apart". I would in fact state that there are more old enemies than old friends here, and I do of course include myself in this indictment. I may be a man of SCIENCE, but I am still human, as was TGRR, as is Cram, Net, Rat, Charley, and everyone else.
We've talked a good game, but we're still primates...And not just in the biological sense. We behave like primates, because we've gotten lazy – there are of course exceptions, but I think the generalization isn't too far off the money. We've lost respect for each other, and by this I mean actual respect, not some "respect rule", such as existed in the late & unlamented Mysticwicks (Fact: If you have to substitute a RULE imposing respect for actual respect, no respect is to be found).
And isn't respect what separates us from the lower primates? The lower primates function off of "you get what you grab". To a chimpanzee, everything is gauged as an angle: "Will what I'm doing pass my genes on/feed me/put me on top of the heap?"
Likewise, the attitude here now seems to fall between "I am owed an audience", "I'm grabbing this", and "I must knuckle under to/support the dominant board members until I can find an edge". Please note that I am by no means referring to a single board member or incident. This is a trend, and it's been going on for some time.
And as for the ancient grudges and hate, well, you could be dead tomorrow. Life is in fact too short to be pissed off at things that happened a year ago, much less four or six years ago. I wouldn't think I'd have to explain this to people who think they're working on expanding their prison walls, or – laughably – working on "common walls". I see perhaps one person (LMNO) who is genuinely interested in this, and dozens of people forming factions to line up with...Just like any other primate, in any other primate tribe. I expect better, and so should you. But to GET better, everyone has to get on board...And I don't see that as likely, even though it's not exactly brain surgery.
Of course, I don't really expect anyone to pay attention to this. I fully expect that everyone will assume that I'm talking about everyone else BUT them, and things will continue to deteriorate until Discordia resembles nothing more than the internal hierarchy of a PTA chapter, or perhaps the Rotarians.
And that is just too awful to contemplate.
Okay for now,
Dok
sadface
There seems to be a fine line between anonymity and familiarity, when a natural balance can be found... If everyone is a stranger, then people can (and will) act like an asshat just because they can. At the same time, people slip into tribal roles without even thinking about it when they become comfortable with their companions. But there's a point, where you don't really know someone, but you think you might become friends, where the respect you refer to just blossoms on it's own. But on either side of that tipping point, it takes concious effort to remain upright. And the effort to continually do so takes its toll.
I think all of the above applies here. The flare-ups we see are only to be expected as we see outlandish noobs, rifts and factions developing, and succumb to the stress of standing on two feet. But to our credit at least, most of us eventually keep trying, part of the time.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 23, 2012, 05:41:50 PM
There seems to be a fine line between anonymity and familiarity, when a natural balance can be found... If everyone is a stranger, then people can (and will) act like an asshat just because they can. At the same time, people slip into tribal roles without even thinking about it when they become comfortable with their companions. But there's a point, where you don't really know someone, but you think you might become friends, where the respect you refer to just blossoms on it's own. But on either side of that tipping point, it takes concious effort to remain upright. And the effort to continually do so takes its toll.
I think all of the above applies here. The flare-ups we see are only to be expected as we see outlandish noobs, rifts and factions developing, and succumb to the stress of standing on two feet. But to our credit at least, most of us eventually keep trying, part of the time.
And that's perfectly natural. But we are not animals, to be ruled by our lizard brains, unless we choose to be...Or simply fail to choose NOT to be.
And that's where I was going with this. The situation isn't hopeless, it's just bad. All it takes to make it stop being bad is to put out the effort to do so.
This effort would entail giving up certain luxuries, such as "Having The Last Word", and "Holy Shit, Net PISSED ME OFF
years ago, and "Because I can", and "I'm talking to pixels, not a
person".
It would also entail showing respect for people, and by this I don't mean playing nice hominid regardless of circumstances. What I mean is, if you want to use someone's work, ASK, regardless of how they've labeled it (if they've been gone for 3 years, then follow the label). Most people that get pissed do so on principle...It's not that you're selling the work, it's that you just assumed you could, for example. It's not that running off with someone's project is going to dash their literary career, it's that you didn't care enough about them to ask, as if they didn't matter at all. A pixel, not a person.
Another luxury that will have to be surrendered is the massive load of butthurt some of us have strapped to the top of our heads like a bad toupe. Do YOU have a bad toupe? I know I do...Or did, til I realized how stupid it looked.
I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, here:
1. Net: I am sorry I called you worthless. You aren't, or I wouldn't have even spoken to you. I am also sorry I've been carrying this insane load of butthurt around over the fliers, and if you and Nigel have settled your differences, it's nothing short of arrogant that I've stayed pissed off. I also retract every other slam I've sent in your direction, whether or not you choose to accept the apology.
2. Cram: I was out of line. I can't say much more than that, and I apologize again...Whether or not you choose to accept it.
3. Queen Gogira: I'm sorry I took part in shitting all over your thread.
4. LMNO, I'm sorry you got dragged into the mess.
5. Doktor Howl, I'm sorry I wasted so much time and effort being an ass.
To put things bluntly, while we're all nursing our grudges and our hate, what are we NOT accomplishing? Oh, yes...The very things we set out to accomplish in the first place.
And while I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, let me suggest that we all hit a mirror, and check on the state of our toupes, eh?
Okay for now,
Dok
That's very bipedal of you, Dok.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 23, 2012, 06:21:59 PM
That's very bipedal of you, Dok.
Rest assured, I run around on all fours most of the time.
Usually when I've been experimenting on myself.
Also note that the examples above my apologies should be considered generic.
Due to the nature of my posting style, I've not really made any friends or any enemies here, but that is because my posting style is fraught with terrible social anxiety and the desire not to rub anyone the wrong way. But hey, that's a problem I need to work out IRL and online. Regardless, I do enjoy this community and find a lot of the people here to be insightful and intelligent, and for the most part, pretty tight-knit. That's why it baffles me sometimes, that some of the worst arguments seem to be over the stupidest things, be it a troll, what could/should have been a simple misunderstanding. That's not to say that no offense or sniping or miscommunication occurs, but it can usually be resolved, IMO, in a much simpler manner. Granted, I usually keep out of it because who am I to intervene in this group of friends.
And I think that goes back to what LMNO was saying about anonymity v. familiarity. Obviously, a lot of you have talked and/or met IRL, so there is some familiarity, and for some of the people that have been around for a while, there will be friendships/a sense of community just from interacting for so long. But the words on a screen v. seeing someone face to face, I think can sometimes make it hard to remember that there are real people on the other end. I find it hard to feel connected entirely due to the lack of in-person interaction (and my already quiet nature), but at the same time feel connected to the community enough that I realize you are all real people with real feelings, that I don't want to come in acting like a raging asshole 'cause "hey, it's just the internet". Compared to Wicca.com (hey, only other forums I was ever a semi-active participant in) where I felt no connection whatsoever.
So it does make me sad to see silly fights break out when this community has so much creative potential working together. Is it because a lot of people here have "big personalities"? That's probably an overgeneralization because while big personalities can tend to clash, that doesn't mean they HAVE to. Possibly some combination of stir crazy, boredom and/or IRL stress. A solution to that IS to get the focus on something productive - of course, that means people have to be willing to focus their attention on that rather than pettiness. I'm not sure where I was going with this really. Maybe just that sometimes it's necessary to step back, breathe, remember it's real people we're dealing with and decide not to expend energy on unnecessary anger and fighting.
tl;dr - Put yourself in the other person's shoes/Can't we all just get along?
ETA - while I was talking, Doc Howl seemed to put it much more concisely :)
I applaud this series of posts!
And I think its a dead on commentary. I really, really like the work of TGRR and Dok Howl, but years of personality friction tends to put us both at odds with each other. Its like a common brick that we both seem to enjoy bashing our brains on.
I'd love to see the past stuck in the search engines rather than our heads, and starting now, I'll be making a strong effort to do just that.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 23, 2012, 06:50:38 PM
I applaud this series of posts!
And I think its a dead on commentary. I really, really like the work of TGRR and Dok Howl, but years of personality friction tends to put us both at odds with each other. Its like a common brick that we both seem to enjoy bashing our brains on.
I'd love to see the past stuck in the search engines rather than our heads, and starting now, I'll be making a strong effort to do just that.
It in fact caused brain damage in TGRR, who took it upon himself to go off on some suicidal quest.
I would like to extend the above apologies to you as well, Rat. We've had some rocky going over the years, for no apparent reason.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 23, 2012, 06:53:15 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on February 23, 2012, 06:50:38 PM
I applaud this series of posts!
And I think its a dead on commentary. I really, really like the work of TGRR and Dok Howl, but years of personality friction tends to put us both at odds with each other. Its like a common brick that we both seem to enjoy bashing our brains on.
I'd love to see the past stuck in the search engines rather than our heads, and starting now, I'll be making a strong effort to do just that.
It in fact caused brain damage in TGRR, who took it upon himself to go off on some suicidal quest.
I would like to extend the above apologies to you as well, Rat. We've had some rocky going over the years, for no apparent reason.
Agreed. Hell, it was some of the old Or Kill Me rants that really drew me to start posting here.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 23, 2012, 06:46:19 PM
Due to the nature of my posting style, I've not really made any friends or any enemies here, but that is because my posting style is fraught with terrible social anxiety and the desire not to rub anyone the wrong way. But hey, that's a problem I need to work out IRL and online. Regardless, I do enjoy this community and find a lot of the people here to be insightful and intelligent, and for the most part, pretty tight-knit. That's why it baffles me sometimes, that some of the worst arguments seem to be over the stupidest things, be it a troll, what could/should have been a simple misunderstanding. That's not to say that no offense or sniping or miscommunication occurs, but it can usually be resolved, IMO, in a much simpler manner. Granted, I usually keep out of it because who am I to intervene in this group of friends.
Who are you? You're one of us.
And any community is going to have blow ups. The trick is to recognize them, and come out of monkey threat posture.
Not everyone is going to get along with everyone. Such is the nature of human sociology. And I think it can be very difficult for pretty much all of us to think objectively, in the heat of the moment, about how a blow-up may be impacting the chi of the rest of the board.
I know I've tried to take a more concerted effort to avoid the typical landmines that cause blow-ups.
But, I also do have a strong compulsion to go to bat for people for whom I have a lot of respect. I know that's another potential landmine that we all have to navigate as well. Supporting someone we think is being wronged but not making the matter worse.
In other words, I think we need a safe word. To remind us , when we're in the thick of it, to take it to PMs, so we don't spag up everything else.
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2012, 07:01:54 PM
In other words, I think we need a safe word. To remind us , when we're in the thick of it, to take it to PMs, so we don't spag up everything else.
"Take it to PMs" should work just fine.
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2012, 07:01:54 PM
In other words, I think we need a safe word. To remind us , when we're in the thick of it, to take it to PMs, so we don't spag up everything else.
"Hey, Mister! Is that a toupe?"
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 23, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2012, 07:01:54 PM
In other words, I think we need a safe word. To remind us , when we're in the thick of it, to take it to PMs, so we don't spag up everything else.
"Hey, Mister! Is that a toupe?"
:mittens:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 23, 2012, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 23, 2012, 06:46:19 PM
Due to the nature of my posting style, I've not really made any friends or any enemies here, but that is because my posting style is fraught with terrible social anxiety and the desire not to rub anyone the wrong way. But hey, that's a problem I need to work out IRL and online. Regardless, I do enjoy this community and find a lot of the people here to be insightful and intelligent, and for the most part, pretty tight-knit. That's why it baffles me sometimes, that some of the worst arguments seem to be over the stupidest things, be it a troll, what could/should have been a simple misunderstanding. That's not to say that no offense or sniping or miscommunication occurs, but it can usually be resolved, IMO, in a much simpler manner. Granted, I usually keep out of it because who am I to intervene in this group of friends.
Who are you? You're one of us.
And any community is going to have blow ups. The trick is to recognize them, and come out of monkey threat posture.
That is nice to know, sometimes :) I admit, because of the reasons above, sprinkled with past experience and touch of paranoia now and again, I tend to put up an isolating buffer until I really get to know people and even then, I'll sometimes leave myself an escape route ("I knew they never liked me/were only humoring me") as a defense mechanism. Counterproductive? Yes, but it is what it is and I'm working on it.
Observing people a lot of the time, I can usually see the cues when something is wrong - there's one person in the room who ISN'T laughing, snark inserted here and there - and I get all bleeding heart and want to make it all better and/or defuse the situation.
But as easy as it can be to see from an outside perspective, I've been known to dig in my heels and screech, and I KNOW this will make it worse, but I'll do it anyway because I'm hurt and I CAN. And it does take a conscious effort to step back and evaluate the situation and be willing to work it out rationally, or just walk away from teh situation until it's settled down.
ESPECIALLY when you think you're immune to it until I catch myself acting in the same manner that I loathe in others.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 23, 2012, 07:39:03 PM
That is nice to know, sometimes :) I admit, because of the reasons above, sprinkled with past experience and touch of paranoia now and again, I tend to put up an isolating buffer until I really get to know people and even then, I'll sometimes leave myself an escape route ("I knew they never liked me/were only humoring me") as a defense mechanism. Counterproductive? Yes, but it is what it is and I'm working on it.
That's a very common failing. I suffer from it frequently.
Sorry I went into full blown troll mode in OKM.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 23, 2012, 07:40:20 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 23, 2012, 07:39:03 PM
That is nice to know, sometimes :) I admit, because of the reasons above, sprinkled with past experience and touch of paranoia now and again, I tend to put up an isolating buffer until I really get to know people and even then, I'll sometimes leave myself an escape route ("I knew they never liked me/were only humoring me") as a defense mechanism. Counterproductive? Yes, but it is what it is and I'm working on it.
That's a very common failing. I suffer from it frequently.
Off. Me too.
Anyhoo. Great posts ITT. Makes me love you all even more. Seriously.
All these positive vibes have me worried that any minute now spunky young orphans and/or Dickensian waifs will appear ITT to teach us valuable lessons about life. I've seen it before and it's never pretty.
Quote from: kingyak on February 23, 2012, 09:23:07 PM
All these positive vibes have me worried that any minute now spunky young orphans and/or Dickensian waifs will appear ITT to teach us valuable lessons about life. I've seen it before and it's never pretty.
You have to kick them the moment they show up. You have to be FIRM about it. You have to say "No", or they're following you all over town singing songs about what a great life it is, guv.
Best just to have them arrested for vagrancy on sight. Don't let the little buggers get started.
Twid
hobbles out of the thread on his crutches and back out onto the mean streets of london
Quote from: Twid, not Billy. on February 23, 2012, 09:38:41 PM
Twid
hobbles out of the thread on his crutches and back out onto the mean streets of london
AND TAKE YOUR FUCKING PET RAT WITH YOU!
Oi ratatosk you erd im. Lets go get a point of bayuh.
Does this mean we could be friends? I've discovered I have a penchant for long motorcycle trips. I hear the southwest is excellent riding. I have also learned that I lack the ability to simply wander. A guided tour of Tucson is a valid destination in my book. It will probably be a couple years before I can afford such a trip, though.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 23, 2012, 09:38:37 PM
Quote from: kingyak on February 23, 2012, 09:23:07 PM
All these positive vibes have me worried that any minute now spunky young orphans and/or Dickensian waifs will appear ITT to teach us valuable lessons about life. I've seen it before and it's never pretty.
You have to kick them the moment they show up. You have to be FIRM about it. You have to say "No", or they're following you all over town singing songs about what a great life it is, guv.
Best just to have them arrested for vagrancy on sight. Don't let the little buggers get started.
Now that our society has finally become more accepting of police brutality, that arrest option is sounding pretty good. I bet a little pepper spray will shut that singing right up.
Quote from: rong on February 23, 2012, 10:27:30 PM
Does this mean we could be friends? I've discovered I have a penchant for long motorcycle trips. I hear the southwest is excellent riding. I have also learned that I lack the ability to simply wander. A guided tour of Tucson is a valid destination in my book. It will probably be a couple years before I can afford such a trip, though.
Sure. Caveat emptor applies, however, and I expect at least 30 days warning before people drop in.
Cool. Do you mind if I pronounce it tuckson? Also, is there room in your yard for a tent?
Herr Doktor:
I am intrigued to hear more about the "Common Walls" idea. At face value, I would agree that this is an idea worth expanding. It also makes me envision my brain as an unholy polyhedron, which pleases me. Additionally, looking at my close friends, I would say that the commonality of bent is a common thread in all of them. Simply, we all have a shared quirk, at some level.
Granted, this is an initial reaction, and anticipate more on your own views of it.
But the primates and the fighting. I remember from somewhere that "A man can be judgd by the quality of his enemies."
Well, perhaps, but this man is most negligent in his housekeeping.
I also recall an unproductive day of adolescent scholarship, finding that the bint hired to tell me never to coppulate (yet providing cringing detail), differed of option to myself in beleiving people were better than animals. Can people be better? If convinced to their own vanity they should be, yes. (other methods too, but this is the msot common I ahve seen. Very simialr to how ANY person told of ESP will assume they have it, but that is anohter tangent.) They can be better, WE can be better, but treating them along the animalistic axis until proven otherwise, is safest most of the time.
As such, there are no enemies. There are only irritants edging themselves closer to the criteria for destruction. Often, upon making my will to escalate clear, while smoothing my surgical scapular and fondling my death ray, I find there is neither no more enemy, or a pile of ash.
This may be the WRONG thinking, but it does clear the air of tedious long term nemesii.
Quote from: Luna on February 23, 2012, 07:10:26 PM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 23, 2012, 07:01:54 PM
In other words, I think we need a safe word. To remind us , when we're in the thick of it, to take it to PMs, so we don't spag up everything else.
"Take it to PMs" should work just fine.
I won't have an adversarial conversation in PM. Privacy is for people I trust.
Just another perspective. "Hey, your ass is showing" is something I might PM someone if I thought they were embarrassing themselves, but for the most part I will not have the conversation behind metaphorical closed doors. I myself am usually gentler in PM but I have had people say really really REALLY shitty things to me in PM that they didn't have the balls to say in public and I am not interested in having those kinds of hidden and unaccountable conversations.
Usually by the time I am at a point of a public altercation, I have already gently (or not so gently) stated my opinion many times over.
I appreciate Dok's OP, I think it's a great one. And, I myself have mellowed out a great deal over time. But while I'm all for splitting a thread, or starting a new thread, I am very unlikely to take a heated argument to PM because it makes me feel unsafe. Rational or not. I would rather hash things out in public.
Though i rather doubt it- if anyone needs to clear the air with me give me a heads up.
Quote from: Twid, not Billy. on February 24, 2012, 02:13:24 AM
Though i rather doubt it- if anyone needs to clear the air with me give me a heads up.
TWID, YOU ARE A SHIT-EATING COCKMONGER OF THE WORST SORT. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID TO THOSE ORPHANED HARP SEALS.
SEALS WERE NEVER MEANT TO PLAY HARP. IT WAS AN ABOMINATION TO AN DAGDA MOR!
EVERYTHING'S AN ABOMINATION TO AN DAGDA MOR! YOU DIDN'T EAT ANY SEAGULL LIVERS.
THAT WOULD HAVE ANGERED MANANNAN MAC LIR AND I MAKE UP FOR IT BY PICKLING MY OWN LIVER.
Quote from: Twid, not Billy. on February 24, 2012, 03:06:36 AM
THAT WOULD HAVE ANGERED MANANNAN MAC LIR AND I MAKE UP FOR IT BY PICKLING MY OWN LIVER.
OH LOOK, AN IRISHMAN DRINKING HIMSELF INTO A STUPOR! LET'S JUST THROW IN SOME POTATO AND TINY PENIS JOKES, TOO, THAT'LL MAKE UP FOR PISSING ON THEIR CORPSES. THEY MADE ME COME BACK AND CLEAN THAT SHIT UP FOR MY COMMUNITY SERVICE!
I LIKE BOOZE BECAUSE ITS BOOZE NOT BECAUSE IM IRISH. IM A STEREOTYPE FOR MY OWN AMUSEMENT.
IM AT THE KINSALE RIGHT NOW WHERE ARE YOU BOSTONIAN?
:lulz:
I JUST DID WHISKEY IN THE JAR FOR KARAOKE AND YOU MISSED IT. ALL THE IRISH DUDES WERE LIKE YEAH YOU GO DORKY GUY WITH THE BLUE COAT!
Quote from: Twid, not Billy. on February 24, 2012, 04:03:59 AM
IM AT THE KINSALE RIGHT NOW WHERE ARE YOU BOSTONIAN?
AT HOME BUT I SHOULD CLEARLY BE OUT DRUNKIES WITH YOU.
And pickles just gave me the car keys. :lol: im one of the soberies tonight. :finish guinnesh:
See, this is totally why we should drinkies at some point. The Boyfriend refuses to alcohol, so there's always a driver :lulz:
Im down. Ill bring villager.
You guys are dumb. It's not about being drunk, it's about getting drunk.
Trust a German American to do a Irish Americans job.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 05:06:14 AM
You guys are dumb. It's not about being drunk, it's about getting drunk.
Trust a German American to do a Irish Americans job.
COME TEACH US HOW TO DRINKIES!
KINSALE MOTHERFUCKER. ... where im being the designated driver....
twid
not irish american. bunreacht na heireann says im irish hibernian.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on February 24, 2012, 05:08:06 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 05:06:14 AM
You guys are dumb. It's not about being drunk, it's about getting drunk.
Trust a German American to do a Irish Americans job.
COME TEACH US HOW TO DRINKIES!
The mountain must move to Mohammad.
Incidentally i think gogira and i have agreed to come mar 10.
Pickles is wasted. Glad he gave me the keys voluntarily.
Also for the record lmno pickles is german american too. :lol:
/threadjack
let the peace process continue.
Pickles has not posted, and therefore eats poorly cooked cabbage.
Because I say so.
Judging from his dancing balance and laughter at his tab i dont think hes capable of either posting or cabbage right now.
So I win?
For germany yes. Against ireland for once no. :lol:
This thread impressed the hell outta me.
It even made me want to go:
Quote from: Twid, not Billy. on February 24, 2012, 02:13:24 AM
Though i rather doubt it- if anyone needs to clear the air with me give me a heads up.
Then this happened....
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on February 24, 2012, 02:15:22 AM
TWID, YOU ARE A SHIT-EATING COCKMONGER OF THE WORST SORT. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID TO THOSE ORPHANED HARP SEALS.
Dang, glad somebody did that before I did. :lulz:
A human sacrifice was necessary. :lulz:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 05:06:14 AM
You guys are dumb. It's not about being drunk, it's about getting drunk.
Trust a German American to do a Irish Americans job.
But I'm German AND Irish! (for a given value of "am") Are that make me good a both?
Pah. I'm Norwegian through and through. (With some Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Scottish and Jewish thrown in for good measure)
I dare ya to out-drink me!
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:16:49 PM
Pah. I'm Norwegian through and through. (With some Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Scottish and Jewish thrown in for good measure)
I dare ya to out-drink me!
You have a standing invitation to come to Tucson at any time of year (Spring & Fall are most comfortable), and take part in the Upstairs Balcony Invitational Bourbon Swilling Olympics. Puking over the cliff out back onto golfers is extra points.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:16:49 PM
Pah. I'm Norwegian through and through. (With some Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Scottish and Jewish thrown in for good measure)
I dare ya to out-drink me!
You have a standing invitation to come to Tucson at any time of year (Spring & Fall are most comfortable), and take part in the Upstairs Balcony Invitational Bourbon Swilling Olympics. Puking over the cliff out back onto golfers is extra points.
I appreciate that!
I'll make sure to put Tuscon on my list when I finally get my arse across that pond.
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:26:22 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:16:49 PM
Pah. I'm Norwegian through and through. (With some Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Scottish and Jewish thrown in for good measure)
I dare ya to out-drink me!
You have a standing invitation to come to Tucson at any time of year (Spring & Fall are most comfortable), and take part in the Upstairs Balcony Invitational Bourbon Swilling Olympics. Puking over the cliff out back onto golfers is extra points.
I appreciate that!
I'll make sure to put Tuscon on my list when I finally get my arse across that pond.
We're a measly 4024 Km from New York, so it's not too far out of the way.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 07:31:04 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:26:22 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:16:49 PM
Pah. I'm Norwegian through and through. (With some Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Scottish and Jewish thrown in for good measure)
I dare ya to out-drink me!
You have a standing invitation to come to Tucson at any time of year (Spring & Fall are most comfortable), and take part in the Upstairs Balcony Invitational Bourbon Swilling Olympics. Puking over the cliff out back onto golfers is extra points.
I appreciate that!
I'll make sure to put Tuscon on my list when I finally get my arse across that pond.
We're a measly 4024 Km from New York, so it's not too far out of the way.
[maybe stupid question]Are there trains[/maybe stupid question]
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:43:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 07:31:04 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:26:22 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:16:49 PM
Pah. I'm Norwegian through and through. (With some Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Scottish and Jewish thrown in for good measure)
I dare ya to out-drink me!
You have a standing invitation to come to Tucson at any time of year (Spring & Fall are most comfortable), and take part in the Upstairs Balcony Invitational Bourbon Swilling Olympics. Puking over the cliff out back onto golfers is extra points.
I appreciate that!
I'll make sure to put Tuscon on my list when I finally get my arse across that pond.
We're a measly 4024 Km from New York, so it's not too far out of the way.
[maybe stupid question]Are there trains[/maybe stupid question]
Yes. They're not much cheaper than planes, and they take 4-5 days, rather than 5 hours.
Not really sure why I took the trouble to look this up but anyway:
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 07:43:23 PM
[maybe stupid question]Are there trains[/maybe stupid question]
Yes, but they cost about as much as a plane ticket (on the random dates I looked up it was $371.20 for a plane and $362.00 for train). The train takes 83 hr, 25 min. You can get there cheaper (I found about $180) by bus ("Greyhound"), but then you have to sit on the bus for about 60 hours.
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Amtrak and greyhound are good if youre going from say boston to philadelphia and dont have a car. Anything beyond that distance youre better off flying.
Or, you could rent a unicycle.
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
Yes, unfortunately. That.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
They only had the one cannibal. It's not like they make a
habit of it.
Dok Howl -
I'm not anonymous here. I haven't been for a while now. You can easily trace my name and verify all sorts of things about me. Likewise, people could find me /here/ by searching my full name on Google.
While taking the jump from anonymity was scary, it's such a great relief to have done it. But I will admit, I post less about the sort of things I used to post. I post less altogether. I don't join in discussions of things I wouldn't have in a public place, because, yes, this is a public place.
In The Selfish Gene, Dawkins talks about evolutionary stable states, and among other things, Prisoner's Dilemma. You can reach an ESS where cooperation becomes the norm and defecters/cheaters become a small minority. But the only way this happens is: A) people take steps to be cooperative at first interaction, rather than refusing to cooperate until the other person shows cooperative behavior, and B) people have to see each other as individuals, and not as faceless names on a screen.
And we do see each other as individuals, somewhat. But there's still enough anonymity that people feel free to take shots at each other, or defect first, or retaliate when people try to cooperate, because there is very little social karma involved.
You want a sure way to make things more respectful? Get rid of the anonymity. Make people responsible for their actions, in the same way they would be if they met on the street.
As unpopular as this idea will be, it would work. As long as 'us vs them' presides, communication doesn't happen. I've found some real relationships build with people here when I've met them IRL, or talked with them over the phone, because there is no longer any guess as to whether they are a 'cheater', hiding behind a screen name. For me, anyway.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
I'm... perplexed.
OK then. I'll fly.
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on February 24, 2012, 09:05:07 PM
Dok Howl -
As unpopular as this idea will be, it would work. As long as 'us vs them' presides, communication doesn't happen. I've found some real relationships build with people here when I've met them IRL, or talked with them over the phone, because there is no longer any guess as to whether they are a 'cheater', hiding behind a screen name. For me, anyway.
But for every you and I, Kai, there's someone being stalked by some shitknocker like Lumberjim. Hell, that's happened to me (Tentasticle, etc), but I don't care.
But I'm not a single woman with three children in the house. Or an older guy with limited mobility.
Fact is, most of the people involved in the usual business already have met in person and know each other's names. Nothing short of face to face conversations would eliminate the anonymous effect.
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
I'm... perplexed.
OK then. I'll fly.
You are perplexed because you live in a civilized society where something like a maniac shooting up a bunch of kids was completely unimaginable, before it happened. Here, we have monsters everywhere. Some of them are our police, and they're very polite, for a few minutes.
And some ride the busses or hang out down in Central Filth, looking for people who won't be missed.
It's not to say you SHOULDN'T take the bus. Why not? I personally occasionally do just that, to remind myself of all the damage cases and screaming lunatics that wander from coast to coast, for reasons that they can't seem to explain.
But it's a little bit MUCH, if you know what I mean, for your first exposure to Fat City.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:12:09 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
I'm... perplexed.
OK then. I'll fly.
You are perplexed because you live in a civilized society where something like a maniac shooting up a bunch of kids was completely unimaginable, before it happened. Here, we have monsters everywhere. Some of them are our police, and they're very polite, for a few minutes.
And some ride the busses or hang out down in Central Filth, looking for people who won't be missed.
It's not to say you SHOULDN'T take the bus. Why not? I personally occasionally do just that, to remind myself of all the damage cases and screaming lunatics that wander from coast to coast, for reasons that they can't seem to explain.
But it's a little bit MUCH, if you know what I mean, for your first exposure to Fat City.
I see your point. And, I WOULD like to take the bus, actually, but after your posts on it, not by myself.
A companion would be an excellent idea for that. Maybe two. If something bad happens to you theyll actually help you (which may or may not snap everyone else out of diffusion of responsibility)
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
I see your point. And, I WOULD like to take the bus, actually, but after your posts on it, not by myself.
Oh, that's okay. You're
never alone on our busses.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:19:52 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
I see your point. And, I WOULD like to take the bus, actually, but after your posts on it, not by myself.
Oh, that's okay. You're never alone on our busses.
:horrormirth:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:12:09 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
I'm... perplexed.
OK then. I'll fly.
You are perplexed because you live in a civilized society where something like a maniac shooting up a bunch of kids was completely unimaginable, before it happened. Here, we have monsters everywhere. Some of them are our police, and they're very polite, for a few minutes.
And some ride the busses or hang out down in Central Filth, looking for people who won't be missed.
It's not to say you SHOULDN'T take the bus. Why not? I personally occasionally do just that, to remind myself of all the damage cases and screaming lunatics that wander from coast to coast, for reasons that they can't seem to explain.
But it's a little bit MUCH, if you know what I mean, for your first exposure to Fat City.
Utilizing public transportation, especially busses are subways really are educational experiences when it comes to human sociology and psychology. I know I felt
very educated taking a DC subway after 8 pm on a Friday.
... Waffle iron i think im in the process of formulating a womp story starring you.
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:19:52 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
I see your point. And, I WOULD like to take the bus, actually, but after your posts on it, not by myself.
Oh, that's okay. You're never alone on our busses.
:horrormirth:
Besides, that's 4 days killed, days that we could be showing you the glory of Tucson. And bourbon. Not the kind of bourbon You People would drink, over there where you can get beer that tastes like beer and booze that doesn't chew the enamel off of your teeth. No. Our bourbon. Stuff that would make Humphrey Bogart cry, and make George Thorogood give up on the sauce. And we shall drink in the company of branding freaks and tape worm perverts, and we shall call it Right & Good.
No, best to not waste any time.
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 24, 2012, 09:23:32 PM
Utilizing public transportation, especially busses are subways really are educational experiences when it comes to human sociology and psychology. I know I felt very educated taking a DC subway after 8 pm on a Friday.
I once spent 20 hours riding the Tucson bus system, just to see how weird it could get.
It got pretty fucking weird.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:25:08 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:19:52 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
I see your point. And, I WOULD like to take the bus, actually, but after your posts on it, not by myself.
Oh, that's okay. You're never alone on our busses.
:horrormirth:
Besides, that's 4 days killed, days that we could be showing you the glory of Tucson. And bourbon. Not the kind of bourbon You People would drink, over there where you can get beer that tastes like beer and booze that doesn't chew the enamel off of your teeth. No. Our bourbon. Stuff that would make Humphrey Bogart cry, and make George Thorogood give up on the sauce. And we shall drink in the company of branding freaks and tape worm perverts, and we shall call it Right & Good.
No, best to not waste any time.
I've tried Knob Creek. Does that count?
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:25:08 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:19:52 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
I see your point. And, I WOULD like to take the bus, actually, but after your posts on it, not by myself.
Oh, that's okay. You're never alone on our busses.
:horrormirth:
Besides, that's 4 days killed, days that we could be showing you the glory of Tucson. And bourbon. Not the kind of bourbon You People would drink, over there where you can get beer that tastes like beer and booze that doesn't chew the enamel off of your teeth. No. Our bourbon. Stuff that would make Humphrey Bogart cry, and make George Thorogood give up on the sauce. And we shall drink in the company of branding freaks and tape worm perverts, and we shall call it Right & Good.
No, best to not waste any time.
I've tried Knob Creek. Does that count?
Wait & see. No cheating. Wait til you get here before you try it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 09:56:04 PM
Wait & see. No cheating. Wait til you get here before you try it.
I promise.
From my experience, it's not on the busses that is the problem, you're just in uncomfortably close proximity to a lot of people who don't know what iPods are because this is their first time on "the outside" since before mp3 players were a thing. It's weird and uncomfortable, but everyone feels weird and uncomfortable together.
It's the stations that are risky. One of my friends was in a bus station where a single hobo managed to make off with 5 or 6 tickets, 3 phones (which were replaced by dummies), a couple of wallets, and 4 US Marines' uniforms--while there were uniformed cops standing around at the doors.
But that's Dallas/Ft. Worth. Not everywhere is that bad, some are just full of workers who are sanity-blastingly incompetent.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
They only had the one cannibal. It's not like they make a habit of it.
Yes, but he cut off the guy's HEAD with a POCKETKNIFE. And nobody did anything.
Quote from: Nigel on February 25, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
They only had the one cannibal. It's not like they make a habit of it.
Yes, but he cut off the guy's HEAD with a POCKETKNIFE.
WHAT.
QuoteAnd nobody did anything.
WHAT.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on February 25, 2012, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 25, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
They only had the one cannibal. It's not like they make a habit of it.
Yes, but he cut off the guy's HEAD with a POCKETKNIFE.
WHAT.
QuoteAnd nobody did anything.
WHAT.
That's Canada for you.
Quote from: Nigel on February 25, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
They only had the one cannibal. It's not like they make a habit of it.
Yes, but he cut off the guy's HEAD with a POCKETKNIFE. And nobody did anything.
Might've been taken as rude to interfere in other peoples' business.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tim_McLean
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 23, 2012, 06:21:59 PM
That's very bipedal of you, Dok.
Yea right, what's up with the the brachiator?
Quote from: Nigel on February 25, 2012, 02:09:18 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on February 25, 2012, 12:57:38 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 25, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Waffle Iron on February 24, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
Humm. I might do the Greyhound thing. I want to actually see stuff too. Besides I'm used to bus rides.
Not a 4000 Km bus ride.
And not in America. Things happen on our busses, Waffle. People go missing, or worse...But nobody ever talks about it, because the people that matter can afford the plane ride.
It's not quite as bad as what goes down on the buses in Canada, but yeah, it's bad.
They only had the one cannibal. It's not like they make a habit of it.
Yes, but he cut off the guy's HEAD with a POCKETKNIFE.
WHAT.
QuoteAnd nobody did anything.
WHAT.
That's Canada for you.
Holy shit. Now I'm afraid of American buses AND Canada.
Apology accepted Dok. I sincerely appreciate it.
I apologize for making you out to be a paranoid wingbat as well as my comments regarding your illness.
I would have liked to post this sooner, but have been super busy. I'll be a bit sparse for a few weeks due to school and work picking up steam, but I'd just like to make it clear that it's not due to lingering butthurt or passive aggressive bollocks.
Quote from: Net on February 27, 2012, 07:16:07 AM
Apology accepted Dok. I sincerely appreciate it.
I apologize for making you out to be a paranoid wingbat as well as my comments regarding your illness.
I would have liked to post this sooner, but have been super busy. I'll be a bit sparse for a few weeks due to school and work picking up steam, but I'd just like to make it clear that it's not due to lingering butthurt or passive aggressive bollocks.
Thanks.