Hello again. Been a while. How are you all doing? ECH, gratz on the new rectum. Weaponized. Very impressive.
Once, long ago, I started looking for either a Tar Baby or a Briar Patch (preferably both). Cain might remember. Something... I wasn't looking for something to smash the system so much as gum up the works.
About that time I stopped coming by and posting because of reasons. Now that those reasons are well known and widespread I think it's time to discuss what to do about them.
One of the biggest problems facing intelligence analysts is information overload. In the broader sense, this is a vexing problem; separating the needles from the haystack. In a world where governments are collecting every bit of internet interaction they can find on everyone everywhere makes for a very big haystack indeed. With enough data they can know what a specific individual might do before that person ever knows they want to do it. But that condition only obtains when all of the data is true and relevant. With an infinitely powerful magnet it is simple to pull those needles out of that haystack.
But what if it wasn't a haystack, but a pile of needles?
I've been poking around looking for a plugin or program that can do this, but I haven't found it yet. What I'm thinking of is something that would work a bit like stumble. You set a profile of "interests" and it goes off and visits a bunch of sites for you. It crawls all over the web, pretending to be you looking at... whatever. A well crafted program could do something clever such as look at what you're really looking at and then scurry off and hit opposing points of interest. The end result is that the folks gathering data, if they ever have cause to look at YOU directly will find that their amazing database of magical everything is really just a pile of steaming fecal matter. Moreover, if enough people use it, it will impact the statistcal and traffic analytical models in interesting ways.
My background is in RF and things. I could design you a true random generator, but I have no idea how to go about coding something like this. I'd imagine it would have to be a shell or launcher for another browser, or something. Does anyone have an idea of how to pull something like this off, or if it's even possible?
Anyway, that's all I have for now. The rest of my thoughts are just cock, repost, and fail.
Cheers!
It could probably work as a browser extension for firefox and chrome, but I don't know enough about programming either to be useful :(
to distort the analysis you have to obfuscate two things:
-recurring themes
-recurring keywords
so at least your "auto generated" information would had to be twice as much as your real actions... the problem is that its impossible to code a truly random generator, there will absolutely always be patterns, code that can be reverse engineered or inferred what it is doing...
how do you fake email conversations? how do you fake facebook interactions? you cant.
you should look into programs that do qualitative analysis and you will know what i mean... they go fo around $450 and anyone can buy them.... now imagine how a military grade qualitative analysis program with infinite computing capacity would work and how efficient its filters and heuristics can actually be.
you cant fool anyone with the right training, determination and tools from finding out what you are all about.
I am intrigued! Johnny has a point, but one thing it could accomplish, if enough people used it, is to make widespread surveillance more expensive and time-consuming.
This. Making brute force hacks unwieldy. I have a feeling that even with quantum computing, Our Goddess may still prevail.
Quote from: The Johnny on July 16, 2013, 02:34:32 AM
to distort the analysis you have to obfuscate two things:
-recurring themes
-recurring keywords
so at least your "auto generated" information would had to be twice as much as your real actions... the problem is that its impossible to code a truly random generator, there will absolutely always be patterns, code that can be reverse engineered or inferred what it is doing...
how do you fake email conversations? how do you fake facebook interactions? you cant.
you should look into programs that do qualitative analysis and you will know what i mean... they go fo around $450 and anyone can buy them.... now imagine how a military grade qualitative analysis program with infinite computing capacity would work and how efficient its filters and heuristics can actually be.
you cant fool anyone with the right training, determination and tools from finding out what you are all about.
You can fake e-mail and facebook pretty easily actually. Spambots do that all the time.
Sadly, those are REAL ignorant assholes with an Internet connection.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 03:35:07 AM
This. Making brute force hacks unwieldy. I have a feeling that even with quantum computing, Our Goddess may still prevail.
I'm OK with just being kind of a pain in the ass.
Quote from: Pergamos on July 16, 2013, 04:02:44 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on July 16, 2013, 02:34:32 AM
to distort the analysis you have to obfuscate two things:
-recurring themes
-recurring keywords
so at least your "auto generated" information would had to be twice as much as your real actions... the problem is that its impossible to code a truly random generator, there will absolutely always be patterns, code that can be reverse engineered or inferred what it is doing...
how do you fake email conversations? how do you fake facebook interactions? you cant.
you should look into programs that do qualitative analysis and you will know what i mean... they go fo around $450 and anyone can buy them.... now imagine how a military grade qualitative analysis program with infinite computing capacity would work and how efficient its filters and heuristics can actually be.
you cant fool anyone with the right training, determination and tools from finding out what you are all about.
You can fake e-mail and facebook pretty easily actually. Spambots do that all the time.
Its not just a matter of registration, because what really matters is the content... if content has recurrences it can easily be filtered out.
I could go into detail as to how a quantitative/qualitative analysis would function, but only if someone is interested.
Quote from: The Johnny on July 16, 2013, 04:28:08 AM
I could go into detail as to how a quantitative/qualitative analysis would function, but only if someone is interested.
I'm someone and I'm interested.
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
20130716
Hirley, you made it move... :mrgreen:
I've been sticking the following as my signature on most of my emails:
ap-Stun, stakeout,, Oscor, Merlin, Earth first NTT, SL-1, Rolm, TIE, Tie-fighter, PBX, SLI, NTT, MSCJ, Time, MSEE, Cable & Wireless, CSE, Embassy, Ruby Ridge ETA, Porno, Fax, finks, Fax encryption, fertilizer, white noise, pink noise, CRA, M.P.R.I., top secret, Mossberg, 50BMG, Unix Security, VIP Protection, SIG, sweep,NSA Reader Person, you want a PIZZA. Big, yummy, just dripping with hot cheesy goodness. You can have it ordered NOW....YUMM...Pizza!, sweeping, TELINT, Audiotel, improvised c4 Harvard, gasoline, 1080H, SWS, Asset, Satellite imagery, force, Cypherpunks,, halliburton Coderpunks eternity server, Skytel, Yukon ,pressure-cooker,hezbollah Templeton, LUK, Cohiba, Soros, Standford, niche, 51, H&K, USP, ^, sardine, bank, EUB, USP, PCS, NRO, Red Cell, Glock 26, ELF ,snuffle, 50. cal., package,credit card, b9, fraud, assasinate,Waco, U-235, virus, anarchy, rogue, mailbomb, 888, Chelsea, MOD, York, plutonium, , explosives, advise, TUSA, HoHoCon, MSW,WORM, MP5K-SD, 1071, WINGS, cdi, DynCorp, UXO, Ti, THAAD, plutonium, package, chosen, PRIME, SURVIAC...Yes, I am trying to make the NSA a fatter organization...
Huh, great minds! I was just talking about this in #discord the other week. I am concerned with both the NSA spying and with the vast and creepy marketing resources which people are collecting under our noses.
The commercial data market is pretty sketchy too. All your commercial transactions, amazon.com visits, facebook likes, many of your web page visits, credit card purchases, etc etc etc, are being recorded and sold between about six giant shadowy companies. These guys make several billion a year trading info with each other. And you don't have the right to access it or any way to control it. It's data about you but it's not yours.
Even before PRISM saw daylight, I've been worried about that commercial data market. I just get this sick feeling that there are a hundred black swans nesting there. Especially now that they are perfecting demographic prediction heuristics (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/03/06/1218772110.full.pdf+html?with-ds=yes).
Marketers have the ability to determine arcane and minute things about you based on kind of arbitrary activity. I mean, there are certain topics that if you "like" on facebook, they can predict with certainty whether or not you are a cigarette smoker. Or that your parents separated before you turned 21. The prediction criteria may not even be related to the topic! In that link above, check out how the criteria which pegs you as a cigarette smoker or drug user isn't even related to drugs or health. You don't know what picture of you your data paints.
So I was thinking, wouldn't it be cool to have a script running in the background which randomly visits amazon.com urls? randomly donates a few pennies to some random kickstarter? Randomly "likes" then "unlikes" some things on FB? Randomly sends mail to a dummy account using certain key words? Randomly googles keywords related to some interest you don't have?
I don't think these sorts of tricks would protect you if somebody was paying really close attention to you. But they might foil broad prediction heuristics and complicate datamining.
I've been saying it for years -- the trick to privacy is chaff -- it's not about hiding your real activity, it's about disguising it behind a smokescreen of fake activity. It's not about less signal, it's about producing more noise.
Cram, that link is excellent. Pages 11 onwards are gold. Also helps illustrate exactly what metadata is useful for.
Will read the full thing later on, Thanks!
Heh, I remember when you did that experiment on facebook, seeing how quickly you could turn all the newsfeed ads to being about NASCAR. I think it only took a few mentions and a Like or two...
Cram, did you take a look at Salt Your Data?
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on July 16, 2013, 04:49:18 PM
Cram, did you take a look at Salt Your Data?
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,34819.0.html
I'm HELPING. Because it's fucking wonderful.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
Heh, I remember when you did that experiment on facebook, seeing how quickly you could turn all the newsfeed ads to being about NASCAR. I think it only took a few mentions and a Like or two...
Yep, and I still see NASCAR ads. As well as a bunch of other random stuff, because after reading that paper (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/03/06/1218772110.full.pdf?with-ds=yes) I "liked" a bunch of things which peg me as an elderly black lesbian.
Actually, to be honest, I have a browser plugin installed which hides facebook ads, so I don't see them unless I'm on a weird browser.
I think it's SO CREEPY that we are basically arming marketers with our psychic weak points. If you have "liked" the following things - Yahoo, Lipton Brisk, and Footlocker -- there is an overwhelming chance you are a heterosexual woman. If you've "liked" Cradle Of Filth, Under Armour, or the band Slayer, you are a cigarette smoker. Knowing that about you, they can target you with specific ads with imagery you are susceptible to.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 16, 2013, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on July 16, 2013, 04:49:18 PM
Cram, did you take a look at Salt Your Data?
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,34819.0.html
I'm HELPING. Because it's fucking wonderful.
Wow, I like that a lot! You hit it right there - the best foil to data mining is genuine unpredictability.
Here's another similar tool under development: http://adage.com/article/privacy-and-regulation/student-project-kill-digital-ad-targeting/242955/
Interesting ideas!
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 05:06:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
Heh, I remember when you did that experiment on facebook, seeing how quickly you could turn all the newsfeed ads to being about NASCAR. I think it only took a few mentions and a Like or two...
Yep, and I still see NASCAR ads. As well as a bunch of other random stuff, because after reading that paper (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/03/06/1218772110.full.pdf?with-ds=yes) I "liked" a bunch of things which peg me as an elderly black lesbian.
Actually, to be honest, I have a browser plugin installed which hides facebook ads, so I don't see them unless I'm on a weird browser.
I think it's SO CREEPY that we are basically arming marketers with our psychic weak points. If you have "liked" the following things - Yahoo, Lipton Brisk, and Footlocker -- there is an overwhelming chance you are a heterosexual woman. If you've "liked" Cradle Of Filth, Under Armour, or the band Slayer, you are a cigarette smoker. Knowing that about you, they can target you with specific ads with imagery you are susceptible to.
Just wait. Eventually, Facebook will charge, and people will PAY to know what they
really want.
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 05:07:33 PM
Here's another similar tool under development: http://adage.com/article/privacy-and-regulation/student-project-kill-digital-ad-targeting/242955/
Interesting ideas!
How long do you figure before they brand this as some form of perjury or terrorism?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 16, 2013, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 05:06:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
Heh, I remember when you did that experiment on facebook, seeing how quickly you could turn all the newsfeed ads to being about NASCAR. I think it only took a few mentions and a Like or two...
Yep, and I still see NASCAR ads. As well as a bunch of other random stuff, because after reading that paper (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/03/06/1218772110.full.pdf?with-ds=yes) I "liked" a bunch of things which peg me as an elderly black lesbian.
Actually, to be honest, I have a browser plugin installed which hides facebook ads, so I don't see them unless I'm on a weird browser.
I think it's SO CREEPY that we are basically arming marketers with our psychic weak points. If you have "liked" the following things - Yahoo, Lipton Brisk, and Footlocker -- there is an overwhelming chance you are a heterosexual woman. If you've "liked" Cradle Of Filth, Under Armour, or the band Slayer, you are a cigarette smoker. Knowing that about you, they can target you with specific ads with imagery you are susceptible to.
Just wait. Eventually, Facebook will charge, and people will PAY to know what they really want.
Anyone else remember the Facebook ID card? That shit is coming. I feel it in my bones.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 16, 2013, 07:18:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 16, 2013, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 05:06:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
Heh, I remember when you did that experiment on facebook, seeing how quickly you could turn all the newsfeed ads to being about NASCAR. I think it only took a few mentions and a Like or two...
Yep, and I still see NASCAR ads. As well as a bunch of other random stuff, because after reading that paper (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/03/06/1218772110.full.pdf?with-ds=yes) I "liked" a bunch of things which peg me as an elderly black lesbian.
Actually, to be honest, I have a browser plugin installed which hides facebook ads, so I don't see them unless I'm on a weird browser.
I think it's SO CREEPY that we are basically arming marketers with our psychic weak points. If you have "liked" the following things - Yahoo, Lipton Brisk, and Footlocker -- there is an overwhelming chance you are a heterosexual woman. If you've "liked" Cradle Of Filth, Under Armour, or the band Slayer, you are a cigarette smoker. Knowing that about you, they can target you with specific ads with imagery you are susceptible to.
Just wait. Eventually, Facebook will charge, and people will PAY to know what they really want.
Anyone else remember the Facebook ID card? That shit is coming. I feel it in my bones.
In less than 24 months. Shit, less than a year.
And then I'd never touch FB again.
Will also cause me to lose touch with any family that isn't my parents. Though I wouldn't call that a bad thing, we barely talk anyway.
Quote from: Sita on July 16, 2013, 07:58:03 PM
And then I'd never touch FB again.
Will also cause me to lose touch with any family that isn't my parents. Though I wouldn't call that a bad thing, we barely talk anyway.
Who says they'll tell you about it?
I'd think if it would be paid to use or you needed an ID card you would know about it fairly quick. That's not exactly something that can just be hidden in profile settings.
What's a facebook ID card? I googled it and saw a bunch of art projects, but nothing too scary in the first few hits.
I don't think FB is going to charge for usage... they make far more money by selling data about their users. In order to stay on top of the social network war they need to keep people there. Putting up a paywall would make people flee like rats off a sinking ship.
A few years back I was posting official looking "IMAGE BLOCKED UNLESS YOU HAVE A FACEBOOK GOLD ACCOUNT" images and people screamed blue murder. :lulz:
All of my FB ads are gambling and drug rehabilitation.
yeah that's appropriate - speaking as a friend, you should really address your gambling and drug problem
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
A few years back I was posting official looking "IMAGE BLOCKED UNLESS YOU HAVE A FACEBOOK GOLD ACCOUNT" images and people screamed blue murder. :lulz:
Please forward. This needs to resurface.
That's gold.
Cram, they were art projects, but they got shut down HARD. Super hard. And fast. No lube.
The level of reaction was obscene from Facebook. I think it was Germany too and they feel certain ways about privacy. Kind of made you think it was already in the works, or possibly some kind of credit card tie-in. With all the Zynga shit now that could probably work. Vouchers without a doubt.
"What did you get for Christmas Timmy?"
"Facebook Dollars"
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 08:42:58 PM
yeah that's appropriate - speaking as a friend, you should really address your gambling and drug problem
:lol:
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 16, 2013, 08:35:17 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on July 16, 2013, 04:28:08 AM
I could go into detail as to how a quantitative/qualitative analysis would function, but only if someone is interested.
I'm someone and I'm interested.
Well, ill try to make it as clear as i can, from simple to complex.
In general terms regarding methodology:
*Quantitative analysis: comprehends numbers, statistics, recurrence, correlation, variables... not everything in this world is numbers, of course, but it CAN be translated into numbers if one so desires... how many times a word was said? how many times a behaviour takes place? How does X word (variable A) correlate with behaviour (variable B)?...
*Qualitative analysis: comprehends mostly discourse... even in its purest form it relies on some basics of quantitative measuring (recurrence of themes, words) because a recurrence denotes a "signifier", that is, something that is insisting on showing up in the discourse... to be properly done, i would consider a need to have at least 100 pages of material for it to be done properly.
In terms of the automated recollection and analysis possibilities:
There are two primary ways to analyze the data, that is, in a SOCIOLOGICAL manner, and a CLINICAL manner.
*Sociological/Quantitative: it will look to find patterns in actions/behaviour in GROUPALITIES thru associated variables. If a person is of certain age group, gender, nationality, race, location, with X preferences or behaviour will tend to Y. That is pure numbers association for demographics, which can be used for marketing purposes (for example), but it can also be used in support for a qualitative interpretation "¿what does it MEAN that soccer fans buy expensive jerseys of their favourite teams?", etc
*Clinical: this is focused on the individual and creating a profile. A hypothetical person reads the Anarkist's cookbook, has a recurrent anti-establishment discourse in a given forum or multiple emails and went on Amazon to order bulk chemicals and guns "Gee, I wonder what's next". Or say, a hypothetical person is a registered NRA, has recurrent anti-Bama discourse in Facebook "Oh, i wonder if hes going to vote Republican?".
The quantia and sociological aspect can be obfuscated by creating more "noise" than "signal" (and by more, i do mean it proportionately, the noise has to be 66% AT LEAST of the full content, because that's the basic statistical correlation threshold)... if everyone made "noise", there would come to exist strange correlations such as, say, ICP fans liking Dick Chainey and liking imported wine from the viniards in Spain. Or NASCAR fans that also like GreenPeace, so to speak.
A clinical approach cannot be obfuscated such easily, it implies somebody taking the time to read thru all your communications, and one can assume a retard wont be assigned to the task. Word salad won't work, because after 2-3 lines of reading it one can infer that it is what it is, salad (also, this salad needs to be posted to someone, somewhere, at a given time, giving a hint for posterity as to what is useless "discourse")... online actions and behaviour can be obfuscated with a good enough macro or a bot (until its wide-spread use starts to flourish, in which its behaviour can be reverse-engineered, find out exactly how it works, and therefore, apply those working criterions as a filter to what is garbage information).
In conclusion, the sociological analysis can be obfuscated by bots until they are reverse engineered, but the clinical approach cannot be fooled.
Quote from: The Johnny on July 16, 2013, 09:12:40 PM
Well, ill try to make it as clear as i can, from simple to complex.
This was really interesting, thanks for typing all that out.
QuoteThe quantia and sociological aspect can be obfuscated by creating more "noise" than "signal" (and by more, i do mean it proportionately, the noise has to be 66% AT LEAST of the full content, because that's the basic statistical correlation threshold)...
That answers a big question I had - how much noise is enough?
Quoteif everyone made "noise", there would come to exist strange correlations such as, say, ICP fans liking Dick Chainey
wait a minute, that sounds familiar...
(http://chrispiascik.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/1291-20130131-Cheney2Dope.jpg)
okay okay okay, found it
(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr126/TGRR/juggalo1.jpg) [source] (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=13438.2490)
What if we kept trading accounts?
Sorta like hot-potato. We have some random, or irregular data generator, and based on the output we trade certain social or community account with other people?
Or...
We make up a new language offline (via short wave radio, or snail mail) and communicate online with this "logic encryption", in a language they can't decode?
I drank too much soda, tonight.
Did anyone see Windtalkers?
I'm thinking something along those lines.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
A few years back I was posting official looking "IMAGE BLOCKED UNLESS YOU HAVE A FACEBOOK GOLD ACCOUNT" images and people screamed blue murder. :lulz:
Please forward. This needs to resurface.
Sort of like the "level 3 user" gag here.
Yes, please post image. Will use for evil only, I promise.
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
20130716(http://principiadiscordia.com/forum/NewAvatars/avatar_5291.png)hirley0,and P3nT4gR4m (http://principiadiscordia.com/forum/NewAvatars/avatar_2322_1371073676.png)were viewing TH IS
12:18:08 ? :fnord: (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,30433.msg1277039.html#msg1277039)? 12:24:20
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:44:11 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
A few years back I was posting official looking "IMAGE BLOCKED UNLESS YOU HAVE A FACEBOOK GOLD ACCOUNT" images and people screamed blue murder. :lulz:
Please forward. This needs to resurface.
Sort of like the "level 3 user" gag here.
Yes, please post image. Will use for evil only, I promise.
(http://principiadiscordia.com/forum/NewAvatars/avatar_6421_1373484923.png)
Advertisers don't bother me. IN THE SLIGHTEST. I'd rather they were trying to show me stuff I'm actually interested in, rather than irrelevant shit. But then I'm not "persuaded" by advertising. I do not "impulse-buy" If I need something, I'll look for it. If it's expensive I'll research it, compare alternatives, weigh up the pro's and cons.
People who are persuaded by advertising? People who wear sweater A and listen to band B because some guy on teevee told them that's what they like? Fuck those people. They deserve it. Let them enjoy their manufactured happiness. If it wasn't for clever advertisers telling them what to think, they probably wouldn't think at all. They don't have any potential other than to be mindless drones.
while you were tRy'N
quant v qual Lemme say I'Z an nT = not an L
nT = there are 3 img in my poist above
L = Name = names are words Like Gold is a QUAL word as is Silver & Copper
L's often have a price tag attached ? 1¢ | nT's are often ratios mg/mL etc
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
20130716(http://principiadiscordia.com/forum/NewAvatars/avatar_5291.png)hirley0,and P3nT4gR4m (http://principiadiscordia.com/forum/NewAvatars/avatar_2322_1371073676.png)were viewing TH IS
12:18:08 ? :fnord: (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,30433.msg1277039.html#msg1277039)? 12:24:20
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:44:11 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
A few years back I was posting official looking "IMAGE BLOCKED UNLESS YOU HAVE A FACEBOOK GOLD ACCOUNT" images and people screamed blue murder. :lulz:
Please forward. This needs to resurface.
Sort of like the "level 3 user" gag here.
Yes, please post image. Will use for evil only, I promise.
(http://principiadiscordia.com/forum/NewAvatars/avatar_6421_1373484923.png)
:lol:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on July 17, 2013, 09:46:35 AM
Advertisers don't bother me. IN THE SLIGHTEST. I'd rather they were trying to show me stuff I'm actually interested in, rather than irrelevant shit. But then I'm not "persuaded" by advertising. I do not "impulse-buy" If I need something, I'll look for it. If it's expensive I'll research it, compare alternatives, weigh up the pro's and cons.
People who are persuaded by advertising? People who wear sweater A and listen to band B because some guy on teevee told them that's what they like? Fuck those people. They deserve it. Let them enjoy their manufactured happiness. If it wasn't for clever advertisers telling them what to think, they probably wouldn't think at all. They don't have any potential other than to be mindless drones.
I'm with you in so far that I don't think I've ever bought a product I saw in a facebook ad or banner ad or whatever.
However -- a lot of advertising words on a pre-concious level. Your forebrain does not understand the relationship between the hot hot tits and the brand logo. But your limbic system associates the arousal with the brand, and the next time you see the brand, you pay a little bit more attention. Gradually this awareness builds up until (ideally) it is strong enough to motivate you and become a factor in your decision making. You always think that you are making conscious rational choices, but the factors influencing those decisions are buried beneath your awareness. So I think - it's best not to arm these guys with your secret buttons and weaknesses.
But honestly, the ads themselves don't creep me out as much as the commercial PI market itself. Little streams of data trickle into their files, building an increasingly complete picture of your life. It's a very mysterious industry, because the half dozen-ish companies that collect and trade data about you, as a policy, do not do interviews. They do not publicize how they operate. You do not have a right to see what they have about you. If they have incorrect or dangerous information, there is no way for you to correct it. You do not get a royalty when they sell your info. This market is completely unregulated - there are very few laws about what kind of information they can collect about you, how they can trade it, or what it can be used for.
What if employers had access to that info? What about hackers? What about somebody stalking you? They don't have access now, but there are very few gates between them and the data that
should be private.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:44:11 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 16, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 16, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
A few years back I was posting official looking "IMAGE BLOCKED UNLESS YOU HAVE A FACEBOOK GOLD ACCOUNT" images and people screamed blue murder. :lulz:
Please forward. This needs to resurface.
Sort of like the "level 3 user" gag here.
Yes, please post image. Will use for evil only, I promise.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1365682_o.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/M9WCNA9.jpg)
Quote from: Cramulus on July 17, 2013, 03:04:54 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on July 17, 2013, 09:46:35 AM
Advertisers don't bother me. IN THE SLIGHTEST. I'd rather they were trying to show me stuff I'm actually interested in, rather than irrelevant shit. But then I'm not "persuaded" by advertising. I do not "impulse-buy" If I need something, I'll look for it. If it's expensive I'll research it, compare alternatives, weigh up the pro's and cons.
People who are persuaded by advertising? People who wear sweater A and listen to band B because some guy on teevee told them that's what they like? Fuck those people. They deserve it. Let them enjoy their manufactured happiness. If it wasn't for clever advertisers telling them what to think, they probably wouldn't think at all. They don't have any potential other than to be mindless drones.
I'm with you in so far that I don't think I've ever bought a product I saw in a facebook ad or banner ad or whatever.
However -- a lot of advertising words on a pre-concious level. Your forebrain does not understand the relationship between the hot hot tits and the brand logo. But your limbic system associates the arousal with the brand, and the next time you see the brand, you pay a little bit more attention. Gradually this awareness builds up until (ideally) it is strong enough to motivate you and become a factor in your decision making. You always think that you are making conscious rational choices, but the factors influencing those decisions are buried beneath your awareness. So I think - it's best not to arm these guys with your secret buttons and weaknesses.
But honestly, the ads themselves don't creep me out as much as the commercial PI market itself. Little streams of data trickle into their files, building an increasingly complete picture of your life. It's a very mysterious industry, because the half dozen-ish companies that collect and trade data about you, as a policy, do not do interviews. They do not publicize how they operate. You do not have a right to see what they have about you. If they have incorrect or dangerous information, there is no way for you to correct it. You do not get a royalty when they sell your info. This market is completely unregulated - there are very few laws about what kind of information they can collect about you, how they can trade it, or what it can be used for.
What if employers had access to that info? What about hackers? What about somebody stalking you? They don't have access now, but there are very few gates between them and the data that should be private.
Yeah, I'm much more concerned about retarded governments flagging me as a false positive on the anti-spam heuristics software that is their defense againt teh terrur/commie/insert meaningless boogeyman terminology here - threat.
Fun diversion tho a trip to gitmo might be what happens if getting out involves a bit more than simply killing everyone in the building and piling the bodies up high enough to climb over the wall? What then? I'm stuck in some retarded prison camp, with nothing to eat but rotting human corpses, on the other side of the world from my kayak?
No - fuck that shit. Anything I can do to fuck with them, that doesn't take up too much of my time and I'm in. Browser plugins sound good. I can just leave that shit running while I'm off surfing. Come back and the spooktards are knocking on my door, asking to see a one eyed black irish lesbian. Sorted!
Hey Johnny, That was great, thanks.
About this:
QuoteIn conclusion, the sociological analysis can be obfuscated by bots until they are reverse engineered, but the clinical approach cannot be fooled.
Would your offline behaviour tie into the clinical approach? I'm think with the increasing spread of facial recognition stuff that will be able to be linked to online behaviours and essentially profile likely movement for anyone on a day to day basis. The UK's pretty heavy on CCTV and it would seem to be a logical step in the counter-terrorism brief. Invaluable crime fighting tool and all that.
While writing that, I can't help but wonder if France isn't a step or two ahead with this and it was a hidden reason for the Burqa ban. Surely I'm just being a crazy person now.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
[img
:lol:
How much is truth & HOW Much fiction
i have no idea. i do believe in vodo as i went to that school for
several years grade 7-11 ? 13year old till i was 17? then i tran-
sfered out to Beaverton. for my Final year. No i don't understand
this either | i AM very glad i did make the move | now bac2next P
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
[img
:lol:
How much is truth & HOW Much fiction
i have no idea. i do believe in vodo as i went to that school for
several years grade 7-11 ? 13year old till i was 17? then i tran-
sfered out to Beaverton. for my Final year. No i don't understand
this either | i AM very glad i did make the move | now bac2next P
The more I read your posts, the more convinced I am that you've been very on to all of this for a long, long time.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 17, 2013, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
[img
:lol:
How much is truth & HOW Much fiction
i have no idea. i do believe in vodo as i went to that school for
several years grade 7-11 ? 13year old till i was 17? then i tran-
sfered out to Beaverton. for my Final year. No i don't understand
this either | i AM very glad i did make the move | now bac2next P
The more I read your posts, the more convinced I am that you've been very on to all of this for a long, long time.
Oh yes, I think he has.
Listening to you clock click? R U ?/?
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on July 17, 2013, 07:18:01 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 17, 2013, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2013, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 17, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on July 16, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
[img
:lol:
How much is truth & HOW Much fiction
i have no idea. i do believe in vodo as i went to that school for
several years grade 7-11 ? 13year old till i was 17? then i tran-
sfered out to Beaverton. for my Final year. No i don't understand
this either | i AM very glad i did make the move | now bac2next P
The more I read your posts, the more convinced I am that you've been very on to all of this for a long, long time.
Oh yes, I think he has.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 17, 2013, 06:42:19 PM
Hey Johnny, That was great, thanks.
About this:
QuoteIn conclusion, the sociological analysis can be obfuscated by bots until they are reverse engineered, but the clinical approach cannot be fooled.
Would your offline behaviour tie into the clinical approach? I'm think with the increasing spread of facial recognition stuff that will be able to be linked to online behaviours and essentially profile likely movement for anyone on a day to day basis. The UK's pretty heavy on CCTV and it would seem to be a logical step in the counter-terrorism brief. Invaluable crime fighting tool and all that.
While writing that, I can't help but wonder if France isn't a step or two ahead with this and it was a hidden reason for the Burqa ban. Surely I'm just being a crazy person now.
Correlate with credit card expenditures of everyday life, what type of people are your friends and what are your daily activities or hobbies... every single data point can. be triangulated to test hypothesis and create a personal profile which can be used to predict behaviour.
plays MTG with friends, tends to play videogames and do LARP and has normal middle class expenditures in a suburbian home and works in IT... not really a threat, because half of his life involves harmless vanilla fantasies, does not correlate with going off the deep end
now, a middle aged veteran that recently got fired from his job recently and has two mortgages, 5 children, got divorced and has a type of radical discourse online and just bought a shotgun... innocent till proven guilty, but im sure it will be under scrutiny... mind you, that. doesnt mean hell get a talk or even get stopped before acting out because of how those acts can be played for political power of surveillance institutions, but someone somewhere will put one and one together.