So, I was poking around the philosophy section as I was want to do when I was nineteen and I came across the book Dianetics. For some bizarre reason I picked it up and took it home and read it. And damn if it didn't make a little sense to me.So I sent away for the little test thingie in the back of the book and guess what? I needed their help. So I was in Baltimore at the time and the nearest center was in DC...so I got my girlfriend to take me up there (I didn't drive).The place was pretty much empty and they were playing the batman soundtrack in what I guess was the lobby. I took the intro course for $100. For that you got a book of tapes of L Ron yammering on in lectures which you were encouraged to listen to at your leisure. And then came the auditing. I was paired off with a middle aged woman with an air of desperation about her. I was required to pick a traumatic event and go over that from beginning to end over and over.I picked my girlfriends dog getting hit by a car, because i couldn't really think of anything else. Well after a couple trips up there I got tired or bored of it and quit. About the same time my parents received a whole gigantic stack of poorly xeroxed documents and articles explaining how evil the whole thing was, but I never really judged them to harshly. To this day, some twenty years, later I still receive calls and mail from them. This is like twenty years later. Oh and they made me sign something that said I could get my money back if I didn't badmouth them. Oh and all that literature that my folks gave me was put together by the Cult Awareness Network or something. The Scientologists now run it.
But I was definitely duped, man, for awhile there I bought into the whole thing and I believe this is the longest thing I've ever written on the internet.
My brother's a Scientologist. Ask me anything.
Oh, wow. Has he, like, abandoned the family or anything? How long has he been in? Have you or your family tried to get him out?
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 31, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
[...] About the same time my parents received a whole gigantic stack of poorly xeroxed documents and articles explaining how evil the whole thing was, but I never really judged them to harshly. [...] Oh and all that literature that my folks gave me was put together by the Cult Awareness Network or something. The Scientologists now run it.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: GrannySmith on January 01, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 31, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
[...] About the same time my parents received a whole gigantic stack of poorly xeroxed documents and articles explaining how evil the whole thing was, but I never really judged them to harshly. [...] Oh and all that literature that my folks gave me was put together by the Cult Awareness Network or something. The Scientologists now run it.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Wh..what? That was supposed to be chilling like a brisk glass of iced tea, not lulzy.
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on January 02, 2014, 01:43:01 AM
Quote from: GrannySmith on January 01, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 31, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
[...] About the same time my parents received a whole gigantic stack of poorly xeroxed documents and articles explaining how evil the whole thing was, but I never really judged them to harshly. [...] Oh and all that literature that my folks gave me was put together by the Cult Awareness Network or something. The Scientologists now run it.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Wh..what? That was supposed to be chilling like a brisk glass of iced tea, not lulzy.
But it's hilarious!
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on January 02, 2014, 01:43:01 AM
Quote from: GrannySmith on January 01, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 31, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
[...] About the same time my parents received a whole gigantic stack of poorly xeroxed documents and articles explaining how evil the whole thing was, but I never really judged them to harshly. [...] Oh and all that literature that my folks gave me was put together by the Cult Awareness Network or something. The Scientologists now run it.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Wh..what? That was supposed to be chilling like a brisk glass of iced tea, not lulzy.
We have a concept here called "horrormirth". It's when you laugh til you can't stop screaming.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 02, 2014, 07:47:06 AM
We have a concept here called "horrormirth". It's when you laugh til you can't stop screaming.
Hah. I'm glad I stumbled upon this word, as it is my natural state of being. My reaction to life..
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 31, 2013, 11:51:10 PM
Oh, wow. Has he, like, abandoned the family or anything? How long has he been in? Have you or your family tried to get him out?
There has been no disconnection; however, the family knows what that is, and while dissaproving of Scientology, isn't overly antagonistic about that.
He's been in for about a decade.
When he started out, we were all against it. My dad was a physicist, and he abhorred the use of "science" in a faith-based system that used correlation as causation.
However, my brother was in pretty bad shape before he found the Church -- a self-medicating bipolar sufferer, prone to psychotic breaks, with poor social skills. Scientology gave him structure and a support group, and now he's happier than I've ever seen him. He's stuck to the lower levels of the program, as he's never been interested in theology or philosophy, and doesn't care about Xenu, Thetans, or nuclear bombs thrown into volcanos. He was taught game rules that foster communication and guide social interactions, along with some vague notions of how to remedy certain mental trauma.
I still think he spends too much time and money on the Church, but he's certainly not a victim.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 02, 2014, 03:09:46 PM
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 31, 2013, 11:51:10 PM
Oh, wow. Has he, like, abandoned the family or anything? How long has he been in? Have you or your family tried to get him out?
There has been no disconnection; however, the family knows what that is, and while dissaproving of Scientology, isn't overly antagonistic about that.
He's been in for about a decade.
When he started out, we were all against it. My dad was a physicist, and he abhorred the use of "science" in a faith-based system that used correlation as causation.
However, my brother was in pretty bad shape before he found the Church -- a self-medicating bipolar sufferer, prone to psychotic breaks, with poor social skills. Scientology gave him structure and a support group, and now he's happier than I've ever seen him. He's stuck to the lower levels of the program, as he's never been interested in theology or philosophy, and doesn't care about Xenu, Thetans, or nuclear bombs thrown into volcanos. He was taught game rules that foster communication and guide social interactions, along with some vague notions of how to remedy certain mental trauma.
I still think he spends too much time and money on the Church, but he's certainly not a victim.
Huh, interesting. Is this maybe a case of a broken clock being right twice a day?
Either way, I am happy your brother is ok.
In my opinion it's about not every belief system works for everyone. Much like you can't make blanket assumptions about all Christians, you can't make blanket assumptions about all Scientologists. He was in a bad place, found something that works for him, and is stable enough not to go completely nutty about it.
I will say, I've heard some really disturbing things about SeaOrg, like "child labor camps in the desert" disturbing, and I have a feeling my brother is turning a blind eye to that, which is really too bad.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 02, 2014, 06:27:32 PM
In my opinion it's about not every belief system works for everyone. Much like you can't make blanket assumptions about all Christians, you can't make blanket assumptions about all Scientologists. He was in a bad place, found something that works for him, and is stable enough not to go completely nutty about it.
I will say, I've heard some really disturbing things about SeaOrg, like "child labor camps in the desert" disturbing, and I have a feeling my brother is turning a blind eye to that, which is really too bad.
I think that one critical difference in the comparison between Christianity and Scientology is that Christianity has many sects and many hierarchies, and can even be practiced with no hierarchy at all, whereas Scientology has one sect and one hierarchy, without which it cannot be practiced.
That said, I'm glad it's working for your brother.
That's a good point.
If I said, "not all Catholics can be painted with the same brush," would that work better?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 02, 2014, 07:00:10 PM
That's a good point.
If I said, "not all Catholics can be painted with the same brush," would that work better?
Yeah, that probably is a better simile.
Either way, the point is the same. It works for some people, it doesn't work for others, and it fucks up a lot of people for various reasons, much like other belief systems.
I have a lot of problems with it, but to be brutally honest, I'd probably have problems with him deciding to become a born-again evangelical Christian, too.
When a person is in a deep crisis, they're usually willing to grab any hand that's offered without too much critical thinking before or after they're helped up.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 02, 2014, 07:15:27 PM
I have a lot of problems with it, but to be brutally honest, I'd probably have problems with him deciding to become a born-again evangelical Christian, too.
True enough. I really wasn't expecting a success story, though! But that's great if it works for him.
What's weird is that, if you reframe it, a lot of the early stuff is really just a combination of game rules and behavior therapy. Take the ARC triangle, for example. The concept is that we as a society should strive for three components: Liking/Respecting each other, a shared understanding of the world, and an exchange of ideas. They call it Affinity, Reality, and Communication. The idea is that if you strengthen any one corner, the other two are also strengthened.
And you really can't argue against that. If you and I are to gain knowledge, it's best served when we aren't antagonistic, we can agree on terms, and we can exchange ideas. Take away any one of those things, and you can find real world examples of disasterous clusterfucks. And note that this model has no mystical or science fiction woo anywhere. It's framed as a practical tool on how to behave and function.Where I think it goes wrong is that this, much like any model, is incomplete, but Scientologists treat this as the only true thing.
So a lot of the early work is based on this, and on behavioral modification, which is presented as, "if you do this the result will be this." And there is often correlation. But what happens next begins to blur the lines. They say, "do you want to know why this happens? Because of Engrams in the Reactive Mind." And they proceed to weave a model that now really doesn't have any direct proof or method or tested theory. But it sounds good, and it makes intuitive sense, and if you start to question it, they point to the earlier stuff and say, "Remember, all that worked for you. You saw it. You felt it. This is just more of the same."
So, they take a more-or-less pragmatic and solid foundation, and build a tower of bullshit upon it. But for some people, it works for them.
Yeah, no argument here. I've always had a soft spot for the whole thang. Been awhile since I really delved into it though.
I read a story where L. Ron. locked himself in his bathroom, naked, on like 20 hits of acid while screaming "I AM GOD!" Over and over.
I thought that was Mr. Rodgers :lol:
There's always Free Zone Scientology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)). If the methods are useful to someone, I too wouldn't argue with what works for him. To me, it would be safer to adopt Scientology methods without the horrible cult antics that normally go with it.
Yeah, that seems pretty cool, ya know, if I was into that kind of thing.
I know about FreeZone. Tried to get him interested, to no avail.
The CoS takes a very, very dim view of the Freezoners. They are essentially heretics, after all, which makes them Suppressive Persons and so possibly subject to Fair Game. And their practices do differ from the Church in some ways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_%28Scientology%29#Alternative_auditing_practices).
Oh yeah....Fair Game....
After all the exposure they got I'd suspect they'd ease up a bit with that crap...but why stir the hornets' nest