CRAMULUS

[hooplala]

wasn't he also a racist?  I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.

His home was in Southern California, but he grew up with some really ingrained ideas on race, color and religion.  Like most Conservatives I know.

Careful there... irony is close to knocking on your door.

[East Coast Hustle]

In all fairness, it's a reasonably accurate generalization for inland OC.

[BabylonHoruv]

Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"

Nope.

It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"

That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers.  It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.

Yup. Consider the source. Who benefits the most from it.

So then is it more that people are concerned with having someone to shit on, or that the person they shit on is of a different color?

That they have someone to shit on.  That person being a different color just makes it easier to know when to get the toilet paper out.

[hooplala]

In all fairness, it's a reasonably accurate generalization for inland OC.

It was said with love, but yeah from what I've heard of OC that doesn't surprise me.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Back on the original threadjack:

Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.

So of course Nigel is correct.  We should be using this.

I'm seeing it go places. I am also interested in what might happen with it on TCC.

And also, yes, I do think we have an ethical and social responsibility to use our privilege to benefit others. Spread it around a little. But then, I'm a Nixonite and that guy was nothing if not a socialist.

Oh, no argument there.  Apparently I misunderstood the question...I took it to read "should we do something about our privilege" as opposed to "should we use the benefits of our privilege to help the standard of living/conditions of those less fortunate".

[Jenne]

wasn't he also a racist?  I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.

His home was in Southern California, but he grew up with some really ingrained ideas on race, color and religion.  Like most Conservatives I know.

Careful there... irony is close to knocking on your door.

That's why all the qualifiers, my friend.

[Jenne]

In all fairness, it's a reasonably accurate generalization for inland OC.

...just so happens all the Conservatives I know IRL hail directly from there.

[Phox]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

I think you are very close to having your finger on it with the line "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to".

What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.

This is precisely the line of thinking that made my position on this do a 180. I freaking love this concept now. I agree that we should play with it.

[BabylonHoruv]

Just speaking from persona experience, so I may be full of shit but I think it's only in Colonial societies that people really identify as "white"  And only in White dominated societies that people identify as "black" Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.  It leads to odd anomolies though like Australian Aborigines being identified as "black" even though culturally and genetically they are less similar to  Africans than Europeans are.  Their experiences at the hands of Australian Whites have more in common with those of American Native people than Black Americans.

I agree with Nigel though that this is basically a white middleclass board.  I'm poor as shit but I had a middle class upbringing.

[Payne]

Awesome thread is awesome.

For me, I'm not posting so much for reasons that have already been stated before. I didn't fall out of love with PD, I just got meatspace things going on, when previously I could spag around on a computer 24/7.

With regards to the race/ culture/ class discussion, I'm seeing a lot of differing viewpoints and genuine deep discussion. It makes my heart warm with love you guys. I'm working class, white and fairly "intelligent/ well read" (delete as appropriate). I don't think this does have anything to do with my attraction to PD or Discordia as a whole. I don't think it doesn't, either of course.

Peterson Cekamp (of Brazil) was excited by some of the shit we were doing here, notably the BIP. He was indeed middle class, but it suggests that any "racial barrier", if it exists, is at the very least porous.

[Jenne]

...I like that statement: porous racial barrier.

[Payne]

...I like that statement: porous racial barrier.

Yeah, I liked it too.

I'm sure I stole it from someone.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Just speaking from persona experience, so I may be full of shit but I think it's only in Colonial societies that people really identify as "white"  And only in White dominated societies that people identify as "black" Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you. 

hxxp://stormfront.org

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

wasn't he also a racist?  I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.

Interesting thing about Nixon; his personal feelings about Jews were at odds with his ideology, and he was careful not to let them affect his policy. I don't think he was so much racist, as a product of white Quakers in America in the early 20th century.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My racial barrier is definitely "porous", if you know what I mean...