CRAMULUS

[Don Coyote]

As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.

Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...


You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.

It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).

I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.

1.  You have money.  Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't?  What the fuck is wrong with you?

2.  The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group.  You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.

I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college

Most sources of financial aid for those whose families would not be able to afford to send their children to a university. Most sources of financial aid are not for little children whose families want them to forge their way in the world.
Now shut the fuck up you spoiled little shit.
FYI, you can go to a community college part time and work part time and oh my fucking gawds, pay for the first two years of fucking college your self.

Little fucking bitch.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Still catching up after the holiday, but here's my take for what its worth...

1. I think, based on my chats with him, that Cram took a break because he saw a potential in this forum that he no longer sees. Cramulus tends, I think,  to be a evangelical Discordian and he wants as many venues to evangelize from as possible. This forum, while it may good for many things, is probably not really good for evangelism. I think Cram finally realized that and is dealing with that disappointment.

2. I think several people hit key contributors to the lack of diversity in Discordianism. I saw an equal lack of diversity in a number of philosophy based lj groups and similar forums. Minorities in the US are predominantly fire and brimstone christians (or catholics for the hispanics) and this stuff is pretty close to blasphemy. Hell, there are few minority pagans (for the prominent Wicca-like varieties).

3. In my opinion... evangelism, outreach, conversion are all very bad ideas. I did that for a large chunk of my life... and I get to live with the fact that there are still whole families that will die before they take blood... or let their child die, because I was convincing enough to convert them. Sure I think Discordianism is great... but I once thought Jehovah's Witnesses were great. I don't see a command in the PD, or in any Discordian philosophy that says "Go forth and find the sheep and bring them in". This is Discordia, the sheep will end up on the spit if they come here.

The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.

And whats wrong with that, if thats how we want to be?

[BadBeast]

Then 3/ You either drop out of College or your tightarsed family cough up some spondoolys.

Why not just refuse to go unless they give you some food money, or something? Or will they cut your trust fund that you'll get as a reward for finishing College on the bones of your arse, if you show any dissent?
Either way, I don't give a rat's arse, because . . . well, I just don't.   

[BadBeast]

Still catching up after the holiday, but here's my take for what its worth...

1. I think, based on my chats with him, that Cram took a break because he saw a potential in this forum that he no longer sees. Cramulus tends, I think,  to be a evangelical Discordian and he wants as many venues to evangelize from as possible. This forum, while it may good for many things, is probably not really good for evangelism. I think Cram finally realized that and is dealing with that disappointment.

2. I think several people hit key contributors to the lack of diversity in Discordianism. I saw an equal lack of diversity in a number of philosophy based lj groups and similar forums. Minorities in the US are predominantly fire and brimstone christians (or catholics for the hispanics) and this stuff is pretty close to blasphemy. Hell, there are few minority pagans (for the prominent Wicca-like varieties).

3. In my opinion... evangelism, outreach, conversion are all very bad ideas. I did that for a large chunk of my life... and I get to live with the fact that there are still whole families that will die before they take blood... or let their child die, because I was convincing enough to convert them. Sure I think Discordianism is great... but I once thought Jehovah's Witnesses were great. I don't see a command in the PD, or in any Discordian philosophy that says "Go forth and find the sheep and bring them in". This is Discordia, the sheep will end up on the spit if they come here.

The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.

And whats wrong with that, if thats how we want to be?

That's really good to know, that there are more of us fuckers doing different shit, in a different stylee, and there is still chance for anyone with a different take on the whole thing to find a group that they will prosper in. I did a bit of lurking about in The German's Forum, and they are doing it differently to us, but still very much Discordian. More structured maybe, and  tending to swing a little more towards Political activism / anarchy, Techno Music, Dance Drugs, and being implausibly polite to each other. Really nice people too, from what I saw. Sent me a couple of friendly emails, and a link or two. They are quite concerned with the huge rise of Neo-Fascism in Germany at the moment, which is understandable, seeing as how things like that can get out of hand. No old bones on the forum floor there, or virtual screams, sobs, or other signs of decent honest spaggotry, or wompyness, but I do seem to remember some punnery going on, but it may have been my twisted google translator. Keep meaning to go back and check them out some more. I mean, the War and shit, it's all over and now, and a few years behind us but still a bit weird thinking our Grandfathers, and our Great-Grandfathers did such a fucking enthusiastic job of trying to wipe each other out. Twice. I much prefer this non-aggressive Anglo/Teutonic generation, although my Ancestors may be spinning, but fuck them, they're all dead. They had their go, and managed to nearly ensure my generation were never even conceived.
Now it seems there's enough of us for an International Coalition of Discordian Dissemblage  to argue vehemently against. (In public) then maybe create some covert Ops with other groups, and invade  Parguay, or Iceland. Just an idea, anyway.
   

[Luna]

I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college

As I'm sure you can see, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy for "but nobody will hand me my life on a silver platter" around here.  In a dozen years, if you pull your head out of your ass, figure out a way to make it work, get your degree because you fucking EARNED it, as opposed to having it handed to you, you might actually appreciate what it's worth, and, if you're a real human as opposed to a shaved monkey, you might appreciate that the fact that your parents made you actually rely on yourself made you a better person.

So, here's a thought.  Instead of sitting around here whining about how bad you've got it because you can't get list A of scholarships, why don't you look around, and maybe think about asking for advice on how to work with what you've got?  I know at least ONE poster on this board actually does this financial aid shit for a living, and might, if you haven't managed to annoy them beyond wanting to deal with you, actually be willing to help you figure it out.

Unless, of course, you'd rather just whine about how unfair life is.

Guess what.  THAT doesn't go away.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.

Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...


You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.

It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).

I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.

1.  You have money.  Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't?  What the fuck is wrong with you?

2.  The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group.  You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.

I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college

Most sources of financial aid for those whose families would not be able to afford to send their children to a university. Most sources of financial aid are not for little children whose families want them to forge their way in the world.
Now shut the fuck up you spoiled little shit.
FYI, you can go to a community college part time and work part time and oh my fucking gawds, pay for the first two years of fucking college your self.

Little fucking bitch.

Thank you. Spoiled little shits don't even know what it's like to not have a safety net.

Hey Ratatosk, Turks are white, you retard. Just saying.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh my god. Ratatosk. I just actually thoroughly read your whole post and PLEASE SHUT UP before your stunning ignorance taints the whole board.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, the coloreds think this pagan stuff is blasphemy.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Err, so "white" is a magic skin color world wide? I had no idea. Here I was thinking that someone raised as a Muslim in a country where skin color varies from light/whitish to darkish maybe it would be an example of something other than white privilege. My bad.

And as for people who are dominantly raised in fire and brimstone churches (myself included) yeah, I think blasphemy is a strong aspect to the idea of paganism. After all, if you're taught that doing magic will invite the demons to take over your life, it tends to make you shy away.

But by all means, Nigel, don't bother to discuss... shit flinging is so much better.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.

Well I'll make sure that the friends I met are aware of how bad those deep tans can be for their health. I mean the whole village had kind of an olive tone to it, I can't imagine the skin cancer rates... and those poor sods from the kurdish areas must really hit the tanning booths...

I'll also let my friends who are black know that they have no culture that is based heavily on chirstianity. I'm sure that they will appreciate that their perceptons of religion are terribly uninformed and flawed.

Thanks for the corrections Nigel. I don't know what I would ever do without your wisdom.

ETA: I'll also let them know that growing up as poor Muslims in a small fishing village is analogous to being privileged white middle-class Americans. I'm sure they will agree.

[E.O.T.]

OUCH, GUYS

         i don't know what qualifies as having/ coming from "money", but, my family, especially when i was 18, was not hurtin' for cash. but, because i was the "black sheep" for one, and interested in studying what i was actually interested in (after five years i quit correcting their notion that i was studying psychology because neither of my folks could remember the word philosophy) i never once got financial support from them. i paid my way through school, but let me tell you how effective it is to take two, maybe three classes a semester and work full time, not exactly great strides in progress academically, especially when the universities move faster each year to change requirements.

NOW THAT

         the economy is all gone to shit forever, i think nigel and me may be the only folks i know who have not started "back in school" and are using financial aid to buy groceries/ pay mortgage/ rent. people are totally falling back on the system because they're losing direction. what the hell are kids, with no support supposed to do? i personally never judged friends who were willing to go into debt for school, i just thought they were crazy for doing it.

[E.O.T.]

AMERICA

          has a privileged white middle class?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

AMERICA

         has a privileged white middle class?

Yep, I was privileged to grow up in a tiny house that was 150 years old and falling apart, with one working parent trying to raise three kids at the poverty level. I was so privileged that my grandparents and most of the maternal side of my family is illiterate and still don't have running water in their house. I was privileged to hang out my great aunt, who lived in a tiny house with dirt floors and slept on corn shucks. I was privileged enough to not go to college and had the awesome privilege of teaching myself enough about computers and data security to get the job I have now.

I mean hell, who could ask for more?


ETA: Though to be fair, I did have wonderful parents that loved me very much and did their best, even though they were poor undereducated and in a crazy cult. If it had not been for their nurturing environment, I doubt I would have had much success in life.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.

Well I'll make sure that the friends I met are aware of how bad those deep tans can be for their health. I mean the whole village had kind of an olive tone to it, I can't imagine the skin cancer rates... and those poor sods from the kurdish areas must really hit the tanning booths...

I'll also let my friends who are black know that they have no culture that is based heavily on chirstianity. I'm sure that they will appreciate that their perceptons of religion are terribly uninformed and flawed.

Thanks for the corrections Nigel. I don't know what I would ever do without your wisdom.

ETA: I'll also let them know that growing up as poor Muslims in a small fishing village is analogous to being privileged white middle-class Americans. I'm sure they will agree.

You're really projecting, here, and assuming a lot. Please, like I said, before, stop talking; you're just making yourself look worse.