REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[AFK]

Nah, only speaking for myself, I'm not upset or angry with anyone.  It is what it is with this particular issue.  Hell, we never really talk about it, but I'm pretty sure my wife is closer to most of you spags on this issue than she is with me.  We're very Carville & Matlin on this matter. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I have this engineer, his name is Mike.  I believe I've mentioned him.  He is a chemical engineer, but he has a PE, so in his mind, he's competent in all things, and everyone else is stupid.

He spends about a quarter of his day trying to tell me - or one of my guys - HOW to fix things, and/or how a mechanical system should work.  He is universally wrong, but that doesn't even slow him down.

Myself, and all of my guys, have been properly trained in the work we do, and none of us has less than 15 years experience (except for the two apprentices).  But we are constantly told by some guy - who has no training in our field - that we're wrong, because our view of the world contradicts the way he WANTS things to be.

Because expertise and training in a given field is, you know, just an opinion.

[East Coast Hustle]

I don't think you can really compare expertise and training in a "hard" science (engineering, for example) with the same in a "soft" science (particularly fields that involve monkeys studying the behavior of other monkeys). I'm not knocking RWHN's expertise at all, just saying that it's a bad comparison for the point you're trying to make.

The fact is, there's not a single study on the effects of marijuana in any context that can be cited by RWHN or any of these dirty hippies that is free of bias and/or was not undertaken as part of a larger agenda.

I still maintain that, regardless of anyone's view on whether or not it should be legalized recreationally, it should be IMMEDIATELY approved for medicinal use at the federal level (though I'm fine with restricting what it can be prescribed for), and anyone who says otherwise is, IMO, a first-class jackass. All that matters in that context is that it improves the quality of life for many terminally-ill patients.

[East Coast Hustle]

Frankly, I don't give a fuck if it's legalized recreationally. In fact, I kind of like it being illegal because it means if I ever lose my job and end up flat broke, I'll have a way to make some quick loot.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think you can really compare expertise and training in a "hard" science (engineering, for example) with the same in a "soft" science (particularly fields that involve monkeys studying the behavior of other monkeys). I'm not knocking RWHN's expertise at all, just saying that it's a bad comparison for the point you're trying to make.

Wasn't trying to say that RWHN is infallible.  Hell, in my analogy, WE'RE not infallible...But the fact remains, if I am told that I'm doin' it wrong because some Robert Persig fan saw an anecdote about a story that was  tangentially related to the work I was doing, I'd be pissed off.

Likewise, if I was involved in substance abuse prevention for teenagers, and cared about what I did (I wouldn't, but let's pretend I would, for the sake of argument.), I'd be more than a little annoyed when someone came on board and said that I chose to see the world incorrectly, because it failed to jibe with that persons view of how things ought to be.

FACT #1:  The only argument for outright legalization of weed is from a civil liberty standpoint.  No other "facts" are necessary.

Fact #2:  Anyone that pretends that pot isn't a problem for teens/developing adults has their head up their arse, probably reading a copy of High Times from the collection they store in their prostate.

Fact #3:  I have never heard of a death caused directly by pot, and RWHN's link didn't seem to show any.  However, I know of at least one death caused by driving while stoned, which WAS by definition a pot-related death.  Pot hits everyone a little differently.  You may be able to drive while stoned, I am not.

Conclusion:  This thread is a fucking toolbox.  It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for this argument to go two pages without the ad hominem bullshit poking its way in, mostly - but not entirely - on the part of the pro-pot evangelists.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

That's what makes it a toolbox. The fact that neither "side" will accept that there might be any validity to the opposing arguments. So it's as pointless as a religious argument.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

That's what makes it a toolbox. The fact that neither "side" will accept that there might be any validity to the opposing arguments. So it's as pointless as a religious argument.

Agreed.

My only bone of contention is that one side of the argument - on a national level - has the force of law making the decisions FOR us, which pisses me off, even though I don't use pot, and wouldn't if it were legal.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

That's what makes it a toolbox. The fact that neither "side" will accept that there might be any validity to the opposing arguments. So it's as pointless as a religious argument.

Agreed.

My only bone of contention is that one side of the argument - on a national level - has the force of law making the decisions FOR us, which pisses me off, even though I don't use pot, and wouldn't if it were legal.

Yup. There's that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

That's what makes it a toolbox. The fact that neither "side" will accept that there might be any validity to the opposing arguments. So it's as pointless as a religious argument.

Agreed.

My only bone of contention is that one side of the argument - on a national level - has the force of law making the decisions FOR us, which pisses me off, even though I don't use pot, and wouldn't if it were legal.

Yup. There's that.

ATTN, CITIZENS:  YOUR ELECTED MODS HAVE LOCKED THE THREAD.  ARGUMENT OVER, PROHIBITION WINS.  ANY FURTHER RESEARCH WILL BE CONDUCTED OR VETTED BY THE PROHIBITIONISTS.  WE HAVE TO KEEP AMERICA NICE FOR THE CHILDREN THAT USE IT FOR INFORMATION AND RESEARCH FOR HOMEWORK.  FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL MEAN 5-15 YEARS IN TU.

[Luna]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

That's what makes it a toolbox. The fact that neither "side" will accept that there might be any validity to the opposing arguments. So it's as pointless as a religious argument.

Agreed.

My only bone of contention is that one side of the argument - on a national level - has the force of law making the decisions FOR us, which pisses me off, even though I don't use pot, and wouldn't if it were legal.

Yup. There's that.

ATTN, CITIZENS:  YOUR ELECTED MODS HAVE LOCKED THE THREAD.  ARGUMENT OVER, PROHIBITION WINS.  ANY FURTHER RESEARCH WILL BE CONDUCTED OR VETTED BY THE PROHIBITIONISTS.  WE HAVE TO KEEP AMERICA NICE FOR THE CHILDREN THAT USE IT FOR INFORMATION AND RESEARCH FOR HOMEWORK.  FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL MEAN 5-15 YEARS IN TU.

Dammit, Roger, I was staying out of this, mostly, but now I'm downright REQUIRED to come in here and stir the pot.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Eh, my FBF has a Masters in Public Health and dealt extensively with homeless youth prior to going into hospital administration, and she also disagrees with RWHN about legalization. So, even the experts don't all have the same viewpoint on it.

As long as everyone insists on having The One True and Only Right Way, we might as well be Atheists arguing with Christians, here.

I, too, disagree with RWHN on that.

Hence my Fact #1.

The official position of The First Church of the Wrath of Baby Jesus and Ribshack™ is that: Individual liberty trumps safety, health, and the concept of "doing it for the children", life is rough, wear a fucking hat or kill me.

Doesn't change the fact that this thread is a toolbox, for the reasons I listed, among others.

That's the One True and Only Right Way factor.

Which?

That's what makes it a toolbox. The fact that neither "side" will accept that there might be any validity to the opposing arguments. So it's as pointless as a religious argument.

Agreed.

My only bone of contention is that one side of the argument - on a national level - has the force of law making the decisions FOR us, which pisses me off, even though I don't use pot, and wouldn't if it were legal.

Yup. There's that.

ATTN, CITIZENS:  YOUR ELECTED MODS HAVE LOCKED THE THREAD.  ARGUMENT OVER, PROHIBITION WINS.  ANY FURTHER RESEARCH WILL BE CONDUCTED OR VETTED BY THE PROHIBITIONISTS.  WE HAVE TO KEEP AMERICA NICE FOR THE CHILDREN THAT USE IT FOR INFORMATION AND RESEARCH FOR HOMEWORK.  FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL MEAN 5-15 YEARS IN TU.