REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[East Coast Hustle]

I understand what she was trying to convey and while I recognize the essential "truth" of it, it absolutely disgusts me.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

...marijuana addiction...

Damn, RWHN, you just lost a lot of credibility in my book.

Whatever you see is not because some kid is smoking pot, there's something else going on. Smoking probably isn't doing them any favors but your views on it don't seem to square with reality.

[Placid Dingo]

...marijuana addiction...

Damn, RWHN, you just lost a lot of credibility in my book.

Whatever you see is not because some kid is smoking pot, there's something else going on. Smoking probably isn't doing them any favors but your views on it don't seem to square with reality.

Working it education, it makes sense to look at this way. It's not easy for me to teach a kid if they're permanently blazed, whether that's at home or at school. Regardless of whether it's physical or psychological addiction, its addiction and in practical terms should be treated as such.

[AFK]

...marijuana addiction...

Damn, RWHN, you just lost a lot of credibility in my book.

Whatever you see is not because some kid is smoking pot, there's something else going on. Smoking probably isn't doing them any favors but your views on it don't seem to square with reality.

Certainly, there are likely issues in their lives that drive them to pot and other drugs.  There are also many cases of substance abuse that are co-occurring.  That is, that there are substance abuse AND mental health issues going on at the same time.  However, that does not negate the fact that addiction to marijuana does have some very realy, very negative impacts on many young lives.  That IS the reality that I've seen both in the treatment agency I used to work for and in the community I work in today.  Sure, if you take the substance abuse away, there are other issues.  But the same is also said of alcohol abuse, cocaine abuse, etc., etc., etc. 

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

Except with alcohol and cocaine the drugs themselves are a serious problem. Marijuana, while not exactly great for your lungs or motivation, can't kill you or ruin your life (unless you get arrested for having it or are affected by the cartels that control it). I have never seen any credible evidence that showed anything negative about marijuana aside from the effects from smoking it (I.E., you just lit something on fire and are now inhaling the smoke, yes of course that's bad for your lungs). I've seen people abuse alcohol and other drugs and I've seen the horrible effects they can have. I've seen people abuse pot and I've seen the lack of consequences it has aside from arguably making them a little lazier (but even then I would argue it's more to do with their personality than anything else).

I've heard lots of anecdotal stuff from people who were very much against it for one reason or another, some of them saying similar things to what you're saying but I've found that very hard to believe in the absence of actual evidence.

I'm coming in somewhat late to this argument but, for my own clarification, are you against it being decriminalized and/or legalized?

[BabylonHoruv]

Except with alcohol and cocaine the drugs themselves are a serious problem. Marijuana, while not exactly great for your lungs or motivation, can't kill you or ruin your life (unless you get arrested for having it or are affected by the cartels that control it). I have never seen any credible evidence that showed anything negative about marijuana aside from the effects from smoking it (I.E., you just lit something on fire and are now inhaling the smoke, yes of course that's bad for your lungs). I've seen people abuse alcohol and other drugs and I've seen the horrible effects they can have. I've seen people abuse pot and I've seen the lack of consequences it has aside from arguably making them a little lazier (but even then I would argue it's more to do with their personality than anything else).

I've heard lots of anecdotal stuff from people who were very much against it for one reason or another, some of them saying similar things to what you're saying but I've found that very hard to believe in the absence of actual evidence.

I'm coming in somewhat late to this argument but, for my own clarification, are you against it being decriminalized and/or legalized?

I'm for legalization and I certainly have seen pot, in and of itself, impact people's lives in a negative way. It's not good for your short term memory or your motivation.  I have a good friend who I don't see all that much because he can't remember when we've made plans and when he does remember he can't be arsed to get off the couch half the time.

I agree that the negative effects are less than Alcohol and far less than RX Narcotics (which is what he is replacing with it, he has fibromyalgia and would not be able to function without medication) but pretending that  there are no negative effects is not going to advance the arguement.

[AFK]

Except with alcohol and cocaine the drugs themselves are a serious problem. Marijuana, while not exactly great for your lungs or motivation, can't kill you or ruin your life (unless you get arrested for having it or are affected by the cartels that control it). I have never seen any credible evidence that showed anything negative about marijuana aside from the effects from smoking it (I.E., you just lit something on fire and are now inhaling the smoke, yes of course that's bad for your lungs). I've seen people abuse alcohol and other drugs and I've seen the horrible effects they can have. I've seen people abuse pot and I've seen the lack of consequences it has aside from arguably making them a little lazier (but even then I would argue it's more to do with their personality than anything else).

I've heard lots of anecdotal stuff from people who were very much against it for one reason or another, some of them saying similar things to what you're saying but I've found that very hard to believe in the absence of actual evidence.

I'm coming in somewhat late to this argument but, for my own clarification, are you against it being decriminalized and/or legalized?

Yes, I am.  My job is to prevent substance abuse amongst the youth in the two cities I work in.  Knowing what I know about the effects of marijuana on use, and the link between increased access and increased use, I believe whatever benefits to adults from legalization would be outweighed by costs to our youth.  As for evidence of marijuana and its addictive properties, you can check out this link that talks about how the body can develop a dependency on THC and some of the withdrawal symptoms experienced by heavy users.

http://www.uhs.wisc.edu/health-topics/alcohol-and-drugs/marijuana-addiction-and-other-issues.shtml

By the twenty-first century, the answers to these questions are clear. Tolerance does develop to THC (the active chemical in marijuana). Moreover, withdrawal definitely occurs in some users. The effects of this withdrawal are generally the opposite of the effects of intoxication: anxiety and insomnia instead of relaxation; loss of appetite rather than hunger; excessive salivation instead of dry mouth; and also decreased pulse, irritability, and sometimes tremor. People who have used marijuana as a way to control underlying anger may also experience irritability, increased mood swings, and even an increase in aggressive behavior, as symptoms of withdrawal.

Final comment
Although marijuana use has been common in many segments of the American population for two generations, and many adults and teenagers know marijuana users who have not developed addiction even to prolonged use, the potential for the development of addiction is almost certainly greater today than in the 1960s or '70s. The marijuana of today is different. It's not just much more expensive; it also contains significantly more THC. In fact, the THC content of today's pot is several times higher than that of even strong "weed" from the '60s. This makes it more potent, but also more likely to induce tolerance and true addiction.

So yes there is evidence.  One, of course, is free to not believe this evidence, but it doesn't negates its existence. 

[Bruno]

Except with alcohol and cocaine the drugs themselves are a serious problem. Marijuana, while not exactly great for your lungs or motivation, can't kill you or ruin your life (unless you get arrested for having it or are affected by the cartels that control it). I have never seen any credible evidence that showed anything negative about marijuana aside from the effects from smoking it (I.E., you just lit something on fire and are now inhaling the smoke, yes of course that's bad for your lungs). I've seen people abuse alcohol and other drugs and I've seen the horrible effects they can have. I've seen people abuse pot and I've seen the lack of consequences it has aside from arguably making them a little lazier (but even then I would argue it's more to do with their personality than anything else).

I've heard lots of anecdotal stuff from people who were very much against it for one reason or another, some of them saying similar things to what you're saying but I've found that very hard to believe in the absence of actual evidence.

I'm coming in somewhat late to this argument but, for my own clarification, are you against it being decriminalized and/or legalized?

Yes, I am.  My job is to prevent substance abuse amongst the youth in the two cities I work in.  Knowing what I know about the effects of marijuana on use, and the link between increased access and increased use, I believe whatever benefits to adults from legalization would be outweighed by costs to our youth.  As for evidence of marijuana and its addictive properties, you can check out this link that talks about how the body can develop a dependency on THC and some of the withdrawal symptoms experienced by heavy users.

http://www.uhs.wisc.edu/health-topics/alcohol-and-drugs/marijuana-addiction-and-other-issues.shtml

By the twenty-first century, the answers to these questions are clear. Tolerance does develop to THC (the active chemical in marijuana). Moreover, withdrawal definitely occurs in some users. The effects of this withdrawal are generally the opposite of the effects of intoxication: anxiety and insomnia instead of relaxation; loss of appetite rather than hunger; excessive salivation instead of dry mouth; and also decreased pulse, irritability, and sometimes tremor. People who have used marijuana as a way to control underlying anger may also experience irritability, increased mood swings, and even an increase in aggressive behavior, as symptoms of withdrawal.

Final comment
Although marijuana use has been common in many segments of the American population for two generations, and many adults and teenagers know marijuana users who have not developed addiction even to prolonged use, the potential for the development of addiction is almost certainly greater today than in the 1960s or '70s. The marijuana of today is different. It's not just much more expensive; it also contains significantly more THC. In fact, the THC content of today's pot is several times higher than that of even strong "weed" from the '60s. This makes it more potent, but also more likely to induce tolerance and true addiction.

So yes there is evidence.  One, of course, is free to not believe this evidence, but it doesn't negates its existence. 

The OMGMOARPOTANTWEEEDZNAO argument never held much water with me. Better weed just means you have to smoke less to get the same effects. It's less bad for you than shitty weed.

It also comes at a higher price. I doubt that the inflation adjusted cost per THCmol has changed much since the 60's.

[AFK]

The OMGMOARPOTANTWEEEDZNAO argument never held much water with me. Better weed just means you have to smoke less to get the same effects. It's less bad for you than shitty weed.

It also comes at a higher price. I doubt that the inflation adjusted cost per THCmol has changed much since the 60's.

It also means you need less to develop a tolerance which means eventually you will be using quite a bit more to keep getting the same effect.  And one might also observe that your typical drug addict isn't exactly adept at exercising restraint. 

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

How about the costs of keeping it illegal, RWHN? I keep bringing this issue up but you haven't even acknowledged it.

The war on pot does a lot more harm than the facile argument that it merely inhibits adults from smoking it, as you have implied.

What are the primary costs of marijuana prohibition, in your mind?

[Succulent Plant]

Except with alcohol and cocaine the drugs themselves are a serious problem. Marijuana, while not exactly great for your lungs or motivation, can't kill you or ruin your life (unless you get arrested for having it or are affected by the cartels that control it). I have never seen any credible evidence that showed anything negative about marijuana aside from the effects from smoking it (I.E., you just lit something on fire and are now inhaling the smoke, yes of course that's bad for your lungs). I've seen people abuse alcohol and other drugs and I've seen the horrible effects they can have. I've seen people abuse pot and I've seen the lack of consequences it has aside from arguably making them a little lazier (but even then I would argue it's more to do with their personality than anything else).

I've heard lots of anecdotal stuff from people who were very much against it for one reason or another, some of them saying similar things to what you're saying but I've found that very hard to believe in the absence of actual evidence.

I'm coming in somewhat late to this argument but, for my own clarification, are you against it being decriminalized and/or legalized?

Yes, I am.  My job is to prevent substance abuse amongst the youth in the two cities I work in.  Knowing what I know about the effects of marijuana on use, and the link between increased access and increased use, I believe whatever benefits to adults from legalization would be outweighed by costs to our youth.  As for evidence of marijuana and its addictive properties, you can check out this link that talks about how the body can develop a dependency on THC and some of the withdrawal symptoms experienced by heavy users.

http://www.uhs.wisc.edu/health-topics/alcohol-and-drugs/marijuana-addiction-and-other-issues.shtml

By the twenty-first century, the answers to these questions are clear. Tolerance does develop to THC (the active chemical in marijuana). Moreover, withdrawal definitely occurs in some users. The effects of this withdrawal are generally the opposite of the effects of intoxication: anxiety and insomnia instead of relaxation; loss of appetite rather than hunger; excessive salivation instead of dry mouth; and also decreased pulse, irritability, and sometimes tremor. People who have used marijuana as a way to control underlying anger may also experience irritability, increased mood swings, and even an increase in aggressive behavior, as symptoms of withdrawal.

Final comment
Although marijuana use has been common in many segments of the American population for two generations, and many adults and teenagers know marijuana users who have not developed addiction even to prolonged use, the potential for the development of addiction is almost certainly greater today than in the 1960s or '70s. The marijuana of today is different. It's not just much more expensive; it also contains significantly more THC. In fact, the THC content of today's pot is several times higher than that of even strong "weed" from the '60s. This makes it more potent, but also more likely to induce tolerance and true addiction.

So yes there is evidence.  One, of course, is free to not believe this evidence, but it doesn't negates its existence. 

This may have already been addressed (I skimmed through all 35 pages, didn't read them closely) but if pot was legalized and treated like alcohol, theoretically it seems that it would direct the attention of drug enforcement to minors using drugs to a greater extent that it is now, because adults who choose to relax with a nicely packed bowl could do so legally and law enforcement wouldn't be required to harass them. 

[Bruno]

The OMGMOARPOTANTWEEEDZNAO argument never held much water with me. Better weed just means you have to smoke less to get the same effects. It's less bad for you than shitty weed.

It also comes at a higher price. I doubt that the inflation adjusted cost per THCmol has changed much since the 60's.

It also means you need less to develop a tolerance which means eventually you will be using quite a bit more to keep getting the same effect.  And one might also observe that your typical drug addict isn't exactly adept at exercising restraint. 

I'll concede that higher potency makes it easier to get more THC into your system. The vast majority of smokers I've known only smoke as much as they want, not as much as they can. The potency has no effect on their THC intake, only their smoke intake.


I, for one, like having a quarter Oz last me 3 months.

[AFK]

How about the costs of keeping it illegal, RWHN? I keep bringing this issue up but you haven't even acknowledged it.

The war on pot does a lot more harm than the facile argument that it merely inhibits adults from smoking it, as you have implied.

What are the primary costs of marijuana prohibition, in your mind?

That questions, IMO, makes an incorrect assumption.  That legal marijuana is going to be the death-knell of drug cartels.  It would not be their death knell.  Many of these cartels also deal in the illegal and pirate prescription drug trade.  Many also deal with other, harder drugs.  Some of the more sophisticated outlets would undoubtedly switch to a new model where they develop and sell product that outdoes the legal product being regulated by the U.S. Government. 

Certainly, there is alway room for the enforcement of our drug laws to be carried out in smarter and more judicious manners.  I won't argue that. 

[AFK]

This may have already been addressed (I skimmed through all 35 pages, didn't read them closely) but if pot was legalized and treated like alcohol, theoretically it seems that it would direct the attention of drug enforcement to minors using drugs to a greater extent that it is now, because adults who choose to relax with a nicely packed bowl could do so legally and law enforcement wouldn't be required to harass them. 

And you guys harp on me when I point out just what was demonstrated in this very post.

Anyhoo, if marijuana were legalized and treated like alcohol we might also have the problems we've had with underage drinking.  While the rates have been inching down for the past few years, previously they were rising at an alarming rate.  And we still have a significant amount of youth who engage in binge drinking.  Legalizing marijuana, I believe, will erase a lot of the progress we've made with underage usage rates over the past few years.  I think that would be a significant social cost for society to bear. 

[Scribbly]

The argument saying it is less harmful than alcohol to kids is a pretty funny one to me, because alcohol fucks up a lot of kids lives. Far more than is acknowledged, I think. I actually find it pretty disturbing how, in the UK at least, we've taken such a relaxed view to the damage alcohol does to society. It is pretty much taken as read, now, that any major city centre on friday and saturday nights is going to be a warzone.

I've never tried marijuana, which probably puts me in a minority here. It sure does amongst my friends, though not many of them smoke often enough for it to be a regular thing. I would not be against it being legalized, and treated like alcohol, if I had any faith that the restrictions would be enforced. Right now, though, kids smoke and drink publicly all the time.

From personal experience, the sheer hell my parents would have inflicted on me if I'd touched any of that stuff past 16 (and probably marijuana, or any other non-legal drug now if I brought it in the house), prevented me when I was a teenager. Plenty of parents, though, don't care already, and I think that number would increase if it became legal for them. So... I guess, tl;dr, I agree with RWHN, pretty much.