OSAMA BIN LADEN CONFIRMED DEAD.

[Suu]

The press isn't going to have anything right for months.

At least they classified the names of the Seal team, that should keep them secret for at least 20 years.

I'm so glad they did.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'm with Nigel on this one. Old Goyahkla didn't start out as a warrior, he was a holy man. He started fighting after the Mexicans did a Custer/Sand Creek style massacre while the men were off trading for blankets with the Navajo. They wiped out women, old people and little kids as usual and I've read that they took his baby and played around with it, throwing it up and spearing it on their bayonets.

So he started raiding the settlements, white or Mexican didn't make any difference. The Apaches were in their own country bothering no one and he couldn't see any way to save them but to exterminate the invaders, you couldn't talk to them...there was already plenty of bad history before that. (Try googling Mangas Coloradas, for one.)

Goyahkla wasn't a sociopath, as an old man he used to cry about the kids he killed. He just couldn't see any other way. And he had no more regard for the US army than he did for the Mexican army. Didn't the army move the people off their lands when it was all over and force them into a shitty rez in Oklahoma?

After all these years you'd think they'd have enough respect to kep his name out of their mouths. Fuckers.

The Eastern tribes were sent to Oklahoma, Trail of Tears. Geronimo was sent to Florida and never allowed to return to his home.

That's right, Charley...and much worse. They knew the climate there would kill a lot of them.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm with Nigel on this one. Old Goyahkla didn't start out as a warrior, he was a holy man. He started fighting after the Mexicans did a Custer/Sand Creek style massacre while the men were off trading for blankets with the Navajo. They wiped out women, old people and little kids as usual and I've read that they took his baby and played around with it, throwing it up and spearing it on their bayonets.

So he started raiding the settlements, white or Mexican didn't make any difference. The Apaches were in their own country bothering no one and he couldn't see any way to save them but to exterminate the invaders, you couldn't talk to them...there was already plenty of bad history before that. (Try googling Mangas Coloradas, for one.)

Goyahkla wasn't a sociopath, as an old man he used to cry about the kids he killed. He just couldn't see any other way. And he had no more regard for the US army than he did for the Mexican army. Didn't the army move the people off their lands when it was all over and force them into a shitty rez in Oklahoma?

After all these years you'd think they'd have enough respect to kep his name out of their mouths. Fuckers.

The Eastern tribes were sent to Oklahoma, Trail of Tears. Geronimo was sent to Florida and never allowed to return to his home.

They were only in Florida for a couple of years. Then they were moved to Alabama, and finally to Oklahoma. He died in Oklahoma.

[BadBeast]

Now they're bitching about using "Geronimo" as a code name, and how it insults the Amerindians or some shit.

Fuck them.  Geronimo would have understood and approved.

Damn Skippy he would have.

Geronimo would have been in, out, job done, and scalped the fucker too. Armed with nothing but his Tomahawk!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The Apaches were in their own country bothering no one

Except the Pima, earlier the Hohokum, and some random travelers.  The Oatmans, for example.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

People are people. *shurgs* I'm sure there were some nasty fights that went down.
But nothing on the surreal large-scale sociopathic levels that came later.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The Apaches were in their own country bothering no one

Except the Pima, earlier the Hohokum, and some random travelers.  The Oatmans, for example.

The Chiricahua were at peace at the time. The Oatmans were killed by the Tonto... though the complicated politics of "settlers" being killed as they travel through illegally claimed land without a treaty probably doesn't escape you.

[Thurnez Isa]

Ok I have finally organized my main questions about this. Would love to hear some answers.

We have DNA tests proving it was him, so I'm willing to accept that. I'm also willing to accept that the photos shouldn't be released. So I'm willing to accept it was most likely him killed in the raid and willing to accept that he is indeed dead.

We're first told that he's killed via gun fight like one of those old western movies. It turns out now that he was unarmed and the other woman who was killed was struck down upstairs, probably killed by a stray. After the fight they threw his body into the sea rather then transport it back to the US, probably to prevent gawkers or something.
The government also lied about the style of house.
These lies came from people who saw the events unfolded via webcam (or something of that nature).
It seems as though the lies were some kind of attempt to mold the tale in terms of making it mythic, and it had to be at least somewhat intentional. They saw this unfold and they had the information for a week before hand, so this is not "fog of war" crap.

My question is why lie?

You could say perhaps some in the public wouldn't like the idea of killing an unarmed man. But come this is Osama Bin Laden we're talking about here. I don't think people would have cared if they shot him in the back of the head while he was taking a shit. Even the most fervent uber-leftest probably would have at least been emotionally happy at the events and people think more with their emotions then their ideals.

You could say perhaps that they were trying to limit the anger response some fundamentalists in the ME, but having him going out in a blaze of glory is worse because you don't only make it mythic for the American public but also for people on the other side of the equation. Maybe the attempt to say he used human shields is a part of that strategy, but even then women really aren't that valued among the type of people that would be inclined to make Osama a martyr. If this was the reason it seems ill-conceived. And again they had a week before the announcement.

You could say this is just the American myth making apparatus at work here, but to be fair it seems to me more deliberate then anything.

You could say Obama is just trying to make himself look better, but really just the fact they killed Osama more or less reinsures a political bump.

You could say the raid may have went really bad and they're trying to cover up something. That is a possibility, but the evidence is very thin right now.

This is what I mean when I say something doesn't add up here. There is something unsettling here that I can't put my finger here.

I'm probably just reading too much into this and should just join the festivities.

[The Commander]

PS Someone should turn Fuckstick in to a racial slur of some kind.

But then you would have to spell it f-------k...which isn't nearly as fun.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

This is what I mean when I say something doesn't add up here. There is something unsettling here that I can't put my finger here.

I'm probably just reading too much into this and should just join the festivities.

So maybe I'm not so crazy now??? 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The lies are weird. They're not weird because the government lied; they're weird because they're so transparent. They're weird because they clearly appear to be lies and not misinterpretations, and also because they're the kind of lies that would inevitably be revealed very quickly, raising exactly the questions you are raising within just a few days of the operation.

From that perspective, they look like they were planted very intentionally, to be revealed right away as lies.

But, also very clumsily, and this is not a clumsy game they're playing. Notice the close proximity of the revelation of Obama's original birth certificate, and the the operation that resulted in the death of Bin Laden. That's not coincidental. It's a one-two to the gut of the political opposition. There's a good chance that the administration has a killing blow they're saving for later... in fact, I'd put money on it.

[Triple Zero]

PS Someone should turn Fuckstick in to a racial slur of some kind.

But then you would have to spell it f-------k...which isn't nearly as fun.

Hey, that's how you censor FUUUUUUCK, too!

[Suu]

The lies are weird. They're not weird because the government lied; they're weird because they're so transparent. They're weird because they clearly appear to be lies and not misinterpretations, and also because they're the kind of lies that would inevitably be revealed very quickly, raising exactly the questions you are raising within just a few days of the operation.

From that perspective, they look like they were planted very intentionally, to be revealed right away as lies.

But, also very clumsily, and this is not a clumsy game they're playing. Notice the close proximity of the revelation of Obama's original birth certificate, and the the operation that resulted in the death of Bin Laden. That's not coincidental. It's a one-two to the gut of the political opposition. There's a good chance that the administration has a killing blow they're saving for later... in fact, I'd put money on it.

In the end, all it is is a well-played game of chess. Right now, I think they put the GOP in a strong check.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

I just heard on CNN "Coming up next your answer to our poll: 'Is Osama Bin Laden in Hell?'"

[The Good Reverend Roger]