Curious about a concept in the BIP

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Indigeonous religious, by and large, are welcoming of overweight, sweaty westerners with way too expensive Barnes and Noble books on metaphysics and are totally willing to teach them their closely held and usually secret beliefs and rituals for no apparent reason.

Um, there's a reason.  Cold, hard cash.  The Navajo down here do a brisk trade in teaching useless hippies whatever "secrets" come into their cold and cunning heads.  The hippies, of course, eat it right up and beg for more.

The hippies are pathetic, but not as pathetic as what some of them turn into (Grave robbers).

The Navajo, of course, are "Bob" approved, because it's morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.

The Navajo are masters of the disinformation trade. Their propensity for fucking with anthropologists is legendary. 

[Cain]

Or, better yet, some bullshit they heard from a guy who's 1/32nd Cherokee, charging $20 admission to a "sweat lodge" in his back yard.

Yeah, I'm going to go with this reason.  They are bullshit artists, after all, but the real deal tend to protect their particulars as closely as the secret ingredient in KFC.  Its like trade secrets.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Indigeonous religious, by and large, are welcoming of overweight, sweaty westerners with way too expensive Barnes and Noble books on metaphysics and are totally willing to teach them their closely held and usually secret beliefs and rituals for no apparent reason.

Um, there's a reason.  Cold, hard cash.  The Navajo down here do a brisk trade in teaching useless hippies whatever "secrets" come into their cold and cunning heads.  The hippies, of course, eat it right up and beg for more.

The hippies are pathetic, but not as pathetic as what some of them turn into (Grave robbers).

The Navajo, of course, are "Bob" approved, because it's morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.

The Navajo are masters of the disinformation trade. Their propensity for fucking with anthropologists is legendary. 

Yep.  So fatass aging hippies from Alberta don't stand a CHANCE.

[Luna]

Shit, my husband is 1/32nd (or 1/16th, they're not QUITE sure) Cherokee, where's my line of suckers wanting to hand me cash for what I stole out of his super sekrit books?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Thornley was a shady ass character. He had some weird proclivities... from fucking a chair to once being caught doing something questionable with his eight-year-old niece. No way I'm going to identify myself with that guy, even if he said some cool shit.

Yeah, fucking chairs is immoral.

Oh err... that may have come across wrong. Thornley had serious issues including his view that all living things should be sexual. The incident with his niece is certainly an example of badwrong by a guy with serious mental problems. The incident with the chair, is funny.

"I think Kerry was an omnivore sexually, he would have fucked a rhinoceros if he had the opportunity. (Maybe he did I don't know)." - Louise Lacy*

* from "The Prankster and the Conspiracy, by Adam Gorightly

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume it was a miscommunication due to the lack of inflection in text.

I'm not quite willing to grant him that much.

I corrected the potential miscommunication as soon as I saw it. If thats not enough for you, Nigel, fuck off.

No, you.  Your comment was completely uncalled-for in or out of context, and you are a dick for making it either way. Assfuck.

No, you, as your comment was also completely uncalled for.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Or, better yet, some bullshit they heard from a guy who's 1/32nd Cherokee, charging $20 admission to a "sweat lodge" in his back yard.

See my above post.

Also, we need more sweat lodge fatalities.

This.

It especially amuses when women claim to practice the sweat ceremony. I'm like, oh good, you practice a religious rite by deliberately violating one of its basic tenets. Unless it's a women-only sweat and you're all on your periods, you stupid blasphemous cunt.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Or, better yet, some bullshit they heard from a guy who's 1/32nd Cherokee, charging $20 admission to a "sweat lodge" in his back yard.

See my above post.

Also, we need more sweat lodge fatalities.

This.

It especially amuses when women claim to practice the sweat ceremony. I'm like, oh good, you practice a religious rite by deliberately violating one of its basic tenets. Unless it's a women-only sweat and you're all on your periods, you stupid blasphemous cunt.

Though since recently some pretentious spags died while in a sweat lodge, I'm all for them continuing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Thornley was a shady ass character. He had some weird proclivities... from fucking a chair to once being caught doing something questionable with his eight-year-old niece. No way I'm going to identify myself with that guy, even if he said some cool shit.

Yeah, fucking chairs is immoral.

Oh err... that may have come across wrong. Thornley had serious issues including his view that all living things should be sexual. The incident with his niece is certainly an example of badwrong by a guy with serious mental problems. The incident with the chair, is funny.

"I think Kerry was an omnivore sexually, he would have fucked a rhinoceros if he had the opportunity. (Maybe he did I don't know)." - Louise Lacy*

* from "The Prankster and the Conspiracy, by Adam Gorightly

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume it was a miscommunication due to the lack of inflection in text.

I'm not quite willing to grant him that much.

I corrected the potential miscommunication as soon as I saw it. If thats not enough for you, Nigel, fuck off.

No, you.  Your comment was completely uncalled-for in or out of context, and you are a dick for making it either way. Assfuck.

No, you, as your comment was also completely uncalled for.

Which, my comment about your hero having weird sexual proclivities?

I'm not the one who tried to defend a pedo by deflecting attention from the fact that he was caught engaging in questionable activity with a little girl, Ratatosk. THAT is what I find inappropriate about your comment, and why I refuse to give you the benefit of the doubt now. Don't try your fucking obfuscation games on me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Dear Wyldkat:

If you put value
in subjective Bullshit,
lesser spags will treat it
like objective Truth.

Therefore the wise spags lead
by knowing their Prison
and staying pragmatic.
Like hitting someone with a Barstool
to prove that it actually exists,
call people on their Bullshit
so there will be no narcissism to exploit.
By understanding your Cell, you will understand others'.

(From the Sacred Chao te Ching)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This needs to be an emote.

:cherohonky: maybe?

Will do at home.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Cherohonky...yeah.   

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Thornley was a shady ass character. He had some weird proclivities... from fucking a chair to once being caught doing something questionable with his eight-year-old niece. No way I'm going to identify myself with that guy, even if he said some cool shit.

Yeah, fucking chairs is immoral.

Oh err... that may have come across wrong. Thornley had serious issues including his view that all living things should be sexual. The incident with his niece is certainly an example of badwrong by a guy with serious mental problems. The incident with the chair, is funny.

"I think Kerry was an omnivore sexually, he would have fucked a rhinoceros if he had the opportunity. (Maybe he did I don't know)." - Louise Lacy*

* from "The Prankster and the Conspiracy, by Adam Gorightly

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume it was a miscommunication due to the lack of inflection in text.

I'm not quite willing to grant him that much.

I corrected the potential miscommunication as soon as I saw it. If thats not enough for you, Nigel, fuck off.

No, you.  Your comment was completely uncalled-for in or out of context, and you are a dick for making it either way. Assfuck.

No, you, as your comment was also completely uncalled for.

Which, my comment about your hero having weird sexual proclivities?

I'm not the one who tried to defend a pedo by deflecting attention from the fact that he was caught engaging in questionable activity with a little girl, Ratatosk. THAT is what I find inappropriate about your comment, and why I refuse to give you the benefit of the doubt now. Don't try your fucking obfuscation games on me.

A) not my hero... I've posted several times that the dude has serious mental problems, including pedophilia.

B) The comment I found inappropriate was your response to my clarification.

[LMNO]

Ok, I'll wade trudge through here.

First off,
"The world's greatest fool may say the Sun is shining, but that doesn't make it dark out."  - EY, Less Wrong.

WK, you have noticed that some aspect of your shamanism/neoshamanism beliefs seem to fit in with one aspect of the BIP (don't forget, there's the biological half as well as the psychologial).  You're confused as to why we would trash shamanism, if they have a similar belief.

Well, the bible says this (Proverbs 1):

20 Out in the open wisdom calls aloud,
  she raises her voice in the public square;
21 on top of the wall she cries out,
  at the city gate she makes her speech:
22 "How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
  How long will mockers delight in mockery
  and fools hate knowledge?
23 Repent at my rebuke!
  Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
  I will make known to you my teachings.
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
  and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
  and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
  I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
  when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
  when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
  they will look for me but will not find me,
29 since they hated knowledge.

Which certainly aligns with my understanding of Discordia.  But does that mean I should not mock the Christians?  Of course not.  Because while there may be a common element to be found (and RWHN was right for calling out the Lo5 on some of that), the underlying belief systems are wildly disparate.

Shamanism, and the neoshamanism that followed, seems to be primarily concerned with, and revolves around, communication and access with some sort of hidden "Spirit World", and concocts elaborate rituals and sometimes ingests chemicals to reach it.  Dress up the language all you want, but that's what the intent is.  And my brand of Discordia rejects that wholeheartedly.  My brand of Discordia believes in Fermions, Bosons and Gluons.  My brand of Discordia believes that so-called "trancendent" mental states are self-reflecting and physical.  There is no "Spirit World" to contact.  The "Spirit World" is another bar in the BIP, not the BIP itself.  

You might argue that you personally consider the "Spirit World" to be a metaphor.  But that would mean you're not practicing Shamanism, you're engaged in psychological self-deception, intentionally deluding yourself.  Which my Discordia also rejects.  My Discordia seeks to remove layers of deceit to reveal underlying thought processes and patterns, not to add additional piles of bullshit onto an already unstable mental system.  Because, as we have repeatedly found out, any time someone develops a metaphor, someone will always try to stretch and manipulate it to the breaking point, until it becomes useless and meaningless (often known as the "PD Principle").  So my understanding of the BIP includes the understanding that it is itself an imperfect model, whereas your offshoot neoshamanistic insight is considered a Truth.



But what do I know?  I only coined the term.*












*Stole it from PKD and used it for my own defarious purposes, more like.

I had a feeling that this was gonna get buried in the various side discussions, so I'm bumping it, because I liked writing it.

[Luna]

Ok, I'll wade trudge through here.

First off,
"The world's greatest fool may say the Sun is shining, but that doesn't make it dark out."  - EY, Less Wrong.

WK, you have noticed that some aspect of your shamanism/neoshamanism beliefs seem to fit in with one aspect of the BIP (don't forget, there's the biological half as well as the psychologial).  You're confused as to why we would trash shamanism, if they have a similar belief.

Well, the bible says this (Proverbs 1):

20 Out in the open wisdom calls aloud,
  she raises her voice in the public square;
21 on top of the wall she cries out,
  at the city gate she makes her speech:
22 "How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
  How long will mockers delight in mockery
  and fools hate knowledge?
23 Repent at my rebuke!
  Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
  I will make known to you my teachings.
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
  and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
  and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
  I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
  when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
  when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
  they will look for me but will not find me,
29 since they hated knowledge.

Which certainly aligns with my understanding of Discordia.  But does that mean I should not mock the Christians?  Of course not.  Because while there may be a common element to be found (and RWHN was right for calling out the Lo5 on some of that), the underlying belief systems are wildly disparate.

Shamanism, and the neoshamanism that followed, seems to be primarily concerned with, and revolves around, communication and access with some sort of hidden "Spirit World", and concocts elaborate rituals and sometimes ingests chemicals to reach it.  Dress up the language all you want, but that's what the intent is.  And my brand of Discordia rejects that wholeheartedly.  My brand of Discordia believes in Fermions, Bosons and Gluons.  My brand of Discordia believes that so-called "trancendent" mental states are self-reflecting and physical.  There is no "Spirit World" to contact.  The "Spirit World" is another bar in the BIP, not the BIP itself.  

You might argue that you personally consider the "Spirit World" to be a metaphor.  But that would mean you're not practicing Shamanism, you're engaged in psychological self-deception, intentionally deluding yourself.  Which my Discordia also rejects.  My Discordia seeks to remove layers of deceit to reveal underlying thought processes and patterns, not to add additional piles of bullshit onto an already unstable mental system.  Because, as we have repeatedly found out, any time someone develops a metaphor, someone will always try to stretch and manipulate it to the breaking point, until it becomes useless and meaningless (often known as the "PD Principle").  So my understanding of the BIP includes the understanding that it is itself an imperfect model, whereas your offshoot neoshamanistic insight is considered a Truth.



But what do I know?  I only coined the term.*












*Stole it from PKD and used it for my own defarious purposes, more like.

I had a feeling that this was gonna get buried in the various side discussions, so I'm bumping it, because I liked writing it.

It's a good point, that.  Several of them, actually.

Some people are uncomfortable being jabbed with points, however.