Occupy

[Cain]

Just checked.  Federal income tax doesn't kick in unless you're earning about $50,000 a year.

The mode income is $19,800/yr.

And this guy is saying that only those who pay income tax should have a vote?

Pretty sure that's what the confederate states wanted.

It gets even better http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/10/that-53-tumblr.html

the other story in the "53%" group is that I'm pretty confident that a substantial portion of them...don't actually pay income taxes, and therefore are not, in fact, part of the 53% of households who do. For example, this citizen claims to be a college senior working "30+ hours a week making just barely over minimum wage." Which is great and all, but if that's all he's got he's not paying any income tax. Just as a guess, I'd be surprised if any fewer than 10% of the posters are actually income-tax free, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's about 50/50.

What I'd be curious about is what some of these folks would say if they realized that they're not actually part of "the 53%." Of course, to be fair they all do pay taxes; they just -- perhaps -- don't pay income taxes.

[Cain]

Meanwhile, in DC...

http://news.yahoo.com/democrats-seek-own-occupy-wall-street-movement-222048239.html

Occupation can lead to ownership, whether or not you want it.

The spread of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement was met with initial hesitation in both the Democratic and Republican parties. That might be an appropriate response to any protests that aim themselves squarely at the establishment, particularly those with goals that are diverse and diffuse as the current protesters' are.

But a consensus is emerging among Democrats that the "Occupy" movement is worth tapping into, even helping along and joining with in some instances.

"I support the message to the establishment," House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said on ABC's "This Week." "Change has to happen. We cannot continue in a way that does not -- that is not relevant to their lives. People are angry."

To Democrats eager for a liberal antidote to the Tea Party energy that lifted Republicans to power last year, the "Occupy" rallies that started in New York last month and have spread to cities nationwide are tempting to embrace.

In their broadest focus, the protesters channel the indignation Democrats are trying to stir up in the year before the presidential election. The Obama White House is seeking to rally the public for a jobs package and deficit-reduction ideas that argue for the rich and corporate America to pay more -- goals the protesters largely share.

"The protesters are giving voice to a more broad-based frustration about how our financial system works," President Obama said last week when asked at a news conference about the "Occupy Wall Street" events.

It may be that occupiers wind up playing a role for the political left that tea partiers did for the right. But Republicans had one significant advantage in taking ownership of the Tea Party phenomenon: they were entirely out of power in Washington when the movement took root.

To occupiers, at least some of the blame for their perceived lack of accountability in corporate America rests with the current Democratic administration. A persistent liberal critique of Obama administration has been its coziness with Wall Street, and the lack of more drastic actions to repair the economy after eight years under George W. Bush.

In that sense, the protests may highlight divisions inside the Democratic Party even more than they motivate the party faithful.

The tea party faced major internal rifts -- including some that almost certainly cost Republicans Senate seats last year -- in its infancy. But most of those divisions have long since healed, as tea partiers work almost entirely in concert with Republicans, with the prospect of defeating Obama next year serving as a unifying influence.

The movement has some Republicans concerned -- worried enough to start swinging back.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., has expressed concern about the "growing mobs" that are engaged in "the pitting of Americans against Americans."

Cantor's condemnation of members of Congress who are rooting the protesters on echoes conservative commentators who are belittling and delegitimizing the protests. "Occupy Wall Street" hasn't matched the Tea Party when it comes to numbers, or to concrete goals, though neither movement could ever boast of being monolithic.

Others have gone farther in denouncing the current round of protests. Tea Party Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., last week labeled the "Occupy" protests as an "attack upon freedom," and suggested that labor unions have hijacked the movement to boost the president's reelection prospects.

"They don't know why they're there. They're just mad," Broun said of the protesters, on ABC's "Top Line."

Anger, of course, respects no political boundaries these days. Many of the Republicans who are now critical of "Occupy" were cheering the Tea Party movement on.

Now it's Democrats who get to learn the lesson: Channeling the emotions of anger in politics is seldom as simple as it seems.

[Triple Zero]

Um. First have them put their money where there mouth is.

If the Occupiers are smart they won't trust any Democrat until they are willing to put their fucking career on the line if that's what it takes to achieve the changes the Occupy movement wants to see. Not "next year if you let us win the elections"--heard that one before--but right now. Of course, Republicans are also allowed to play. The only way they can earn trust is if they show they are willing to stand against their corporate owners, preferably taking them down a few M$.

Of course that won't happen, but IMO the Occupiers should not aim for anything less.

[trix]

Um. First have them put their money where there mouth is.

If the Occupiers are smart they won't trust any Democrat until they are willing to put their fucking career on the line if that's what it takes to achieve the changes the Occupy movement wants to see. Not "next year if you let us win the elections"--heard that one before--but right now. Of course, Republicans are also allowed to play. The only way they can earn trust is if they show they are willing to stand against their corporate owners, preferably taking them down a few M$.

Of course that won't happen, but IMO the Occupiers should not aim for anything less.

I mostly agree.  But personally I hope the Occupy crowd pushes even bigger.  It will take incredible momentum and very lofty goals to reverse the destructive trend we are on as a species.  I hope Occupy settles for nothing less than every demand on that list I saw posted somewhere.  Including the government taking back the banking systems, the wiping of student debts, all of it.  I still have some pessimistic voice telling me they will throw us a couple bones to placate us and over time it will work and Occupy will lose steam.  But, I hope not.  I will be there, as often as I can.  I will buy a camera, to document, and convince my friends and peers to go as well.  I just wish I could shut that little voice up.

Luckily, there's another voice in there telling me that predicting the future is a useless exercise, and my responsibility is to do what I can to help the momentum regardless of pessimistic instincts.

VOICES IN MAH HEAD!  HALP ME DOK!

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

[Doktor Howl]

Um. First have them put their money where there mouth is.

If the Occupiers are smart they won't trust any Democrat until they are willing to put their fucking career on the line if that's what it takes to achieve the changes the Occupy movement wants to see. Not "next year if you let us win the elections"--heard that one before--but right now. Of course, Republicans are also allowed to play. The only way they can earn trust is if they show they are willing to stand against their corporate owners, preferably taking them down a few M$.

Of course that won't happen, but IMO the Occupiers should not aim for anything less.

I mostly agree.  But personally I hope the Occupy crowd pushes even bigger.  It will take incredible momentum and very lofty goals to reverse the destructive trend we are on as a species.  I hope Occupy settles for nothing less than every demand on that list I saw posted somewhere.  Including the government taking back the banking systems, the wiping of student debts, all of it.  I still have some pessimistic voice telling me they will throw us a couple bones to placate us and over time it will work and Occupy will lose steam.  But, I hope not.  I will be there, as often as I can.  I will buy a camera, to document, and convince my friends and peers to go as well.  I just wish I could shut that little voice up.

Luckily, there's another voice in there telling me that predicting the future is a useless exercise, and my responsibility is to do what I can to help the momentum regardless of pessimistic instincts.

VOICES IN MAH HEAD!  HALP ME DOK!

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

I can't do nothing for ya, man.  You've got the brain flukes. 

At least you'll meet new people every day.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

Read the threads for yourself, schmuck.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

Read the threads for yourself, schmuck.

Seriously, can this kid not read? He wants to have everything spoon-fed to him with personal one-on-one attention.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

For example, this citizen claims to be a college senior working "30+ hours a week making just barely over minimum wage." Which is great and all, but if that's all he's got he's not he shouldn't be paying any income tax.

Fixed that for the blog author.  Income taxes are most likely being taken out of his check, and would have to file correctly to get that money back.  So if he's derping his tax return, he might be paying taxes he doesn't owe.

ETA: Also, if his parents are claiming him as a dependent on their taxes, which is also likely given that he's still in college, that reduce the amount he is able to deduct, and he might end up having to pay because of that.

[trix]

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

Read the threads for yourself, schmuck.

Doh.  Sorry.

It was intended for those that didn't already post an opinion, but I realize now that if they were going to, they would have.

So, yeah.  I is 'tarded sometimes.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

Read the threads for yourself, schmuck.

Doh.  Sorry.

It was intended for those that didn't already post an opinion, but I realize now that if they were going to, they would have.

So, yeah.  I is 'tarded sometimes.

It's that beard you have in your driver's license photo. It's syphoning vital nutrients away from your cerebral cortex.

[trix]

Is it popular opinion here that the Occupiers will require teeth and violence in order to succeed?

Read the threads for yourself, schmuck.

Doh.  Sorry.

It was intended for those that didn't already post an opinion, but I realize now that if they were going to, they would have.

So, yeah.  I is 'tarded sometimes.

It's that beard you have in your driver's license photo. It's syphoning vital nutrients away from your cerebral cortex.

and it's grown bigger and fuller since then! 

[Doktor Howl]

I might have missed it, but I'm still waiting for a coherent message explaining what the OWS people want.

Because right now, it seems like they're having a Howard Beale movement...And while there's nothing wrong with that as a start, it doesn't really get much done.

[Cain]

Hey, remember JP Morgan's donation to the cops?

Here's something even worse:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/10/financial-giants-put-new-york-city-cops-on-their-payroll/

If you're a Wall Street behemoth, there are endless opportunities to privatize profits and socialize losses beyond collecting trillions of dollars in bailouts from taxpayers. One of the ingenious methods that has remained below the public's radar was started by the Rudy Giuliani administration in New York City in 1998. It's called the Paid Detail Unit and it allows the New York Stock Exchange and Wall Street corporations, including those repeatedly charged with crimes, to order up a flank of New York's finest with the ease of dialing the deli for a pastrami on rye.

The corporations pay an average of $37 an hour (no medical, no pension benefit, no overtime pay) for a member of the NYPD, with gun, handcuffs and the ability to arrest. The officer is indemnified by the taxpayer, not the corporation.

New York City gets a 10 percent administrative fee on top of the $37 per hour paid to the police. The City's 2011 budget called for $1,184,000 in Paid Detail fees, meaning private corporations were paying wages of $11.8 million to police participating in the Paid Detail Unit. The program has more than doubled in revenue to the city since 2002.

The taxpayer has paid for the training of the rent-a-cop, his uniform and gun, and will pick up the legal tab for lawsuits stemming from the police personnel following illegal instructions from its corporate master. Lawsuits have already sprung up from the program.

[Doktor Howl]

Police-for-Pay.

Everything Warren Ellis writes comes true.  It's fucking awful.

[LMNO]

I might have missed it, but I'm still waiting for a coherent message explaining what the OWS people want.

Because right now, it seems like they're having a Howard Beale movement...And while there's nothing wrong with that as a start, it doesn't really get much done.

I think it's basically this:

http://www.politicususa.com/en/alan-grayson-occupy-wall-street

O'Rourke claimed that the Occupy Wall Street people flunked econ, and Grayson said, "No, listen Bill, I have no trouble understanding what they are talking about." O'Rourke asked Grayson, "You passed econ?" Grayson answered, "I was an economist for more than three years, so I think so...Now let me tell you about what they're talking about. They're complaining that Wall Street wrecked the economy three years ago and nobody's held responsible for that. Not a single person's been indicted or convicted for destroying twenty percent of our national net worth accumulated over two centuries. They're upset about the fact that Wall Street has iron control over the economic policies of this country, and that one party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street, and the other party caters to them as well."

O'Rourke joked that Occupy Wall Street has found their spokesman, then Grayson continued, "Listen, if I am spokesman for all the people who think that we should not have 24 million people in this country who can't find a full time job, that we should not have 50 million people in this country who can't see a doctor when they're sick, that we shouldn't have 47 million people in this country who need government help to feed themselves, and we shouldn't have 15 million families who owe more on their mortgage than the value of their home, okay, I'll be that spokesman."