Tough on immigration, tough on the causes of immigration

[Disco Pickle]

lol Gawker

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-06/us/us_texas-colombia-teen_1_colombian-officials-flight-attendant-colombian-authorities?_s=PM:US

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/texas-teen-deported-colombia.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/texas-teen-deported-to-colombia-headed-home.html

She shouldn't be held responsible for lying under oath and maintaining a fake identity throughout the entire ordeal. 

If we just finger printed every person once a year until adulthood we could help prevent this sort of tragedy from ever happening again. 

The USA is to blame for not doing more to protect her from herself. 

And her parents deserve every dime of the millions they'll get from the lawsuit and can rest easy knowing that in the future, their parenting of their child will be well funded and couldn't possibly go wrong again.

She was 14 fucking years old, you asshole.

BUT ITS OKAY ROG. THEY WILL GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. HOW MANY OTHER PARENTS WILL BE SENDING THEIR DAUGHTERS OFF TO GET DEPORTED AND RAPED NOW THIS SCAM IS KNOWN?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is exactly why I fucking hate objectivist right wing nut job assholes.

"That 14 year old got raped and imprisoned, and she deserved it, for not thinking rationally at the age of 14."

What a fucking cunt DP is.  I'm really having trouble describing my loathing right now.

I must have missed the part where she was raped in the 4 different articles I read about it.  She DID list her FB page as dating a guy in Columbia.  While I don't think it's been reported just who the father is, I'll go with Occam's Razor.  So, Statutory Rape.  Oh, but not in Columbia unless she was deceived into it.  Given her recent history with truth, I'm disinclined to think that was the case.

And how were they supposed to know she was 14?  Cut her open and count the rings?  She maintained a lie about her identity and claimed to be someone else, someone older, then changed her FB profile to reflect this persona.

Maybe a fingerprint run WOULD have stopped it but who can say.  I wasn't fingerprinted until I was an adult.  I can't say I know what common practice is these days.  Certainly someone could have attempted to find out if she actually spoke Spanish but even that wouldn't prove anything.

So, DP, is it your contention that deportation is a reasonable punishment for lying to the police?  Do you think the state should have that kind of power over an individual, for such an offence?

Of course not.  She wasn't deported for lying.  She was deported for assuming the false identity of a foreign national without ID, a visa or citizenship.  That will get you deported from nearly every country on the planet.  I'm an open borders guy myself, but this event didn't occur in a bubble of how I wish the world was, it happened in the world that currently is.

I know you don't like my politics but I'm a little surprised that you of all people would pull THAT out of what I said. 

What is wrong with you?

What the fuck is wrong with YOU?

Even ignoring the fact that Gawker wrote the article in a way that immediately makes you biased against the immigration system and garners sympathy for the idiot, had you done a bit more reading of the facts you might have come to a more thoughtful conclusion, not the knee-jerk one the article was written to illicit. 

Yes, she was in a detention facility, held there BY the Colombian government at the request of the US Embassy, acting on a request by Dallas PD and her Family to pick her up from the house where she was working.  Maybe living, that information isn't available.

This isn't even a case of "poor, innocent child got caught in the machine and the machine spit her out in a foreign country completely against her will and against all protest about her real identity"  She ACTIVELY sought to be this other person, she WANTED to go to Columbia and created her persona around this false identity of a 22 year old woman from Columbia, even changing her entire facebook profile to reflect this. 

At ANY point in the entire ordeal she could have said "Hey, I'm lying, I'm really an American named Jakadrien Turner, here's my address and phone number, could you please call my parents and tell them I am safe?"

Even when she arrived in the damn country she could have gone to the US Consulate and said the same thing and people would have HELPED her get home.

But clearly this is an indictment of ICE, who didn't do more to help someone who didn't want to be helped.  It's clearly the fault of the officials who, had they even an incling that she wasn't who she said she was but was really a 14 year old runaway, would have done everything in their power to return her to her family, instead did exactly what their job it is to do. 

She lied to them, told them she was someone else, someone with every requirement necessary to be deported back to your country of origin, and the situation came to it's logical conclusion based on the information they were given, and you're fucking SURPRISED?!

No, this is clearly a case of being brown in 'Merica, as Roger contends, forgetting entirely that had she claimed to be of any other nationality, and provided a name of a known person of that nationality, with no ID, no fingerprint record, no VISA, nothing to help anyone save her from her own fucking stupidity and lies, regardless of her skin color, she would have been deported to that country.

Yeah, I'm just the crazy fucking asshole who's not thinking logically.

Clearly.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, I'm just the crazy fucking asshole who's not thinking logically.

1.  It is your opinion that a 14 year old can give consent?

2.  And no, you were the FUCKING ASSHOLE THAT THOUGHT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER WAS APPROPRIATE, DESERVED, AND/OR FUNNY.

You're a prime example of why I fucking hate Randists.

[East Coast Hustle]

Unfortunately, your first post on the matter left all of that out in favor of "she deserved it!"

ETA: directed at Pickles' last post

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Unfortunately, your first post on the matter left all of that out in favor of "she deserved it!"

Certainly.  She made a series of bad calls at the advanced age of 14.

The Free Market™ demanded the subsequent events.

[Hoser McRhizzy]

And how were they supposed to know she was 14?  Cut her open and count the rings?

You do know how to make an impression, don't you.

I'm never going to be able to read anything DP writes without thinking those two questions first.

[Disco Pickle]

Yeah, I'm just the crazy fucking asshole who's not thinking logically.

1.  It is your opinion that a 14 year old can give consent?

2.  And no, you were the FUCKING ASSHOLE THAT THOUGHT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER WAS APPROPRIATE, DESERVED, AND/OR FUNNY.

You're a prime example of why I fucking hate Randists.

It is not my opinion a 14 year old can consent.  I'm not convinced a 16 year old should be able to consent.  The people of Columbia think differently, and when you're in another country you are subject to their laws, even if they differ from your own.

I didn't think it was appropriate or funny. 

She didn't "deserve" to be separated from her family as a child, in a foreign country, where she didn't even speak the native language, but that's exactly where she wanted to go and I was pissed at the threads' contention that it was the fault of some poor paper pushers and police who, had they been given accurate information, would have pulled out all stops to return her to her family, but just didn't do enough to save her from herself. 

You cannot help someone who acts to actively deceive and subvert the systems designed to help people in just this situation.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, I'm just the crazy fucking asshole who's not thinking logically.

1.  It is your opinion that a 14 year old can give consent?

2.  And no, you were the FUCKING ASSHOLE THAT THOUGHT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER WAS APPROPRIATE, DESERVED, AND/OR FUNNY.

You're a prime example of why I fucking hate Randists.

It is not my opinion a 14 year old can consent.  I'm not convinced a 16 year old should be able to consent.  The people of Columbia think differently, and when you're in another country you are subject to their laws, even if they differ from your own.

I didn't think it was appropriate or funny. 

She didn't "deserve" to be separated from her family as a child, in a foreign country, where she didn't even speak the native language, but that's exactly where she wanted to go and I was pissed at the threads' contention that it was the fault of some poor paper pushers and police who, had they been given accurate information, would have pulled out all stops to return her to her family, but just didn't do enough to save her from herself. 

You cannot help someone who acts to actively deceive and subvert the systems designed to help people in just this situation.

So it's okay to HAW HAW at something like this happening?  To take a little smug satisfaction in it?

[Disco Pickle]

Actually, I was full of rage, not laughing.  Rage mostly directed at her parents, who apparently received the notice that parenting is a lost art, and will now use their own bad parenting as an excuse to sue the state, i.e. the rest of us, or those of us who's children would never even THINK about assuming a false identity with the intention of being deported to go live with their boyfriend in another country.  And they wouldn't ever think of doing that because they were raised to be human beings.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I invite you to read your own words.

lol Gawker

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-06/us/us_texas-colombia-teen_1_colombian-officials-flight-attendant-colombian-authorities?_s=PM:US

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/texas-teen-deported-colombia.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/texas-teen-deported-to-colombia-headed-home.html

She shouldn't be held responsible for lying under oath and maintaining a fake identity throughout the entire ordeal. 

If we just finger printed every person once a year until adulthood we could help prevent this sort of tragedy from ever happening again. 

The USA is to blame for not doing more to protect her from herself. 

And her parents deserve every dime of the millions they'll get from the lawsuit and can rest easy knowing that in the future, their parenting of their child will be well funded and couldn't possibly go wrong again.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Rage mostly directed at her parents, who apparently received the notice that parenting is a lost art,

Two adults divorce, the kid takes it badly and does a runner.  Yeah, that's obviously evidence of poor parenting, because no properly-raised kid ever does anything irrational.

So, yeah, not buying it, especially given the "lol" that started your post off.

Also, I'm not sure I can stomach the idea you have that the state cannot be held accountable if it means a few of your precious tax dollars go to the family instead of to Goldman Sachs.

[Disco Pickle]

the lol was about the Gawker article.

I can see now how that one, first "word" could very easily give the impression I was laughing about the entire situation.

I don't see how anything else I wrote gives the impression I was in any way amused.    Badly imitating a style I see used on this forum often.  Clearly not doinitrite.

Mocking, most definitely.  The story and the thread put me on edge. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

the lol was about the Gawker article.

I can see now how that one, first "word" could very easily give the impression I was laughing about the entire situation.

I don't see how anything else I wrote gives the impression I was in any way amused.    Badly imitating a style I see used on this forum often.  Clearly not doinitrite.

Mocking, most definitely.  The story and the thread put me on edge.

Well, sure.  The State™ certainly can't be blamed.  They are perfect and never make any sort of monumental fuckups.

[Disco Pickle]

Rage mostly directed at her parents, who apparently received the notice that parenting is a lost art,

Two adults divorce, the kid takes it badly and does a runner.  Yeah, that's obviously evidence of poor parenting, because no properly-raised kid ever does anything irrational.

So, yeah, not buying it, especially given the "lol" that started your post off.

Also, I'm not sure I can stomach the idea you have that the state cannot be held accountable if it means a few of your precious tax dollars go to the family instead of to Goldman Sachs.

Does a runner to another city and lies her way into working at a dance club, before shoplifting, getting caught, and lying her way into a deportation in a foreign country where she takes up with an older man, gets pregnant, and actively "lives" in a false identity.

Yeah, nothing at all points to parenting or it's lack having anything to do with the above behaviors. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Rage mostly directed at her parents, who apparently received the notice that parenting is a lost art,

Two adults divorce, the kid takes it badly and does a runner.  Yeah, that's obviously evidence of poor parenting, because no properly-raised kid ever does anything irrational.

So, yeah, not buying it, especially given the "lol" that started your post off.

Also, I'm not sure I can stomach the idea you have that the state cannot be held accountable if it means a few of your precious tax dollars go to the family instead of to Goldman Sachs.

Does a runner to another city and lies her way into working at a dance club, before shoplifting, getting caught, and lying her way into a deportation in a foreign country where she takes up with an older man, gets pregnant, and actively "lives" in a false identity.

Yeah, nothing at all points to parenting or it's lack having anything to do with the above behaviors.

Properly raised kids¹ never do any shit like that at all.








¹  White?

[Disco Pickle]

the lol was about the Gawker article.

I can see now how that one, first "word" could very easily give the impression I was laughing about the entire situation.

I don't see how anything else I wrote gives the impression I was in any way amused.    Badly imitating a style I see used on this forum often.  Clearly not doinitrite.

Mocking, most definitely.  The story and the thread put me on edge.

Well, sure.  The State™ certainly can't be blamed.  They are perfect and never make any sort of monumental fuckups.

When the The State™ is grossly negligent, or even slightly negligent IMO, citizens most certainly must have the right to a trial.  I never even slightly hinted anything to the contrary. 

In this instance, given all of the information available to the people doing the job, this was exactly what was supposed to happen.