Shyness vs. gynophobia

[EK WAFFLR]

Somehow, getting together with a psychotically jealous, notoriously unfaithful girl who managed to stab me with a bread knife for not being allowed to read a text message cured that, somewhat.

This made you LESS nervous around women?   

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men. 


(edited to clarify that it was , indeed, tounge in cheek)

[Luna]

Somehow, getting together with a psychotically jealous, notoriously unfaithful girl who managed to stab me with a bread knife for not being allowed to read a text message cured that, somewhat.

This made you LESS nervous around women?   

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men. 


(edited to clarify that it was , indeed, tounge in cheek)

Not, however, entirely untrue.

[trippinprincezz13]

Okay, I have something to add now, after thinking on it.  I'm not sure where I'll be going with this, so feel free to extrapolate.

So last week sometime, Roger's dad took Roger, TGG, Enabler and I out to dinner.  Practically the whole time, starting from the minute Roger's dad walked in the door, to about the time we were finished eating but before the check arrived, I was PARALYZED with terror and anxiety, and I'm not entirely sure over what.  I do know I couldn't meet our waitress' or bussers eyes during that time, and after only managed a few glances.  I made an attempt at contributing to the conversation once, but mostly kept my eyes on my plate.  I didn't want people to get angry(?) with me, so I just tried to stay invisible.  And that was silly and ridiculous.

The end.

At least I'm not the only one, except it seems to be a near constant problem. Whether talking to someone or even smiling at a stranger passing by I HAVE to look away from their face, at least their eyes, as it makes me physically uncomfortable. Unless I'm PISSED, but that's only because I'm trying to burn a hole through your soul at that point. A few other exceptions, maybe. But I get the panic attacks in large crowds, paralyzing fear, worry about constant judgment. There's a small handful of people I'm comfortable with, but the paranoia and anxiety can still manage to work their way in sometimes. And it's why I lurk on here most of the time.

I know this is straying off topic, so I'll cut it here, just nice to be able to relate sometimes, even if it's about a shitty thing. And since most people I know would probably be somewhere between thinking I'm batshit insane or give me that weird, judging smile and say "oh that's silly" and think that I'll magically get over it after that brilliant revelation.

[EK WAFFLR]

Somehow, getting together with a psychotically jealous, notoriously unfaithful girl who managed to stab me with a bread knife for not being allowed to read a text message cured that, somewhat.

This made you LESS nervous around women?   

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men. 


(edited to clarify that it was , indeed, tounge in cheek)

Not, however, entirely untrue.

Humankind IS horrible, yes. And I find that much easier to deal with than if people were genereally... well... decent people.

[Luna]

Yep...  when I fought with the NYEX, I couldn't meet his eyes. Drove him batshit.

Same thing happens any time I get very emotional.  Eye contact increases it to overload.

[Kai]

Okay, I have something to add now, after thinking on it.  I'm not sure where I'll be going with this, so feel free to extrapolate.

So last week sometime, Roger's dad took Roger, TGG, Enabler and I out to dinner.  Practically the whole time, starting from the minute Roger's dad walked in the door, to about the time we were finished eating but before the check arrived, I was PARALYZED with terror and anxiety, and I'm not entirely sure over what.  I do know I couldn't meet our waitress' or bussers eyes during that time, and after only managed a few glances.  I made an attempt at contributing to the conversation once, but mostly kept my eyes on my plate.  I didn't want people to get angry(?) with me, so I just tried to stay invisible.  And that was silly and ridiculous.

The end.

At least I'm not the only one, except it seems to be a near constant problem. Whether talking to someone or even smiling at a stranger passing by I HAVE to look away from their face, at least their eyes, as it makes me physically uncomfortable. Unless I'm PISSED, but that's only because I'm trying to burn a hole through your soul at that point. A few other exceptions, maybe. But I get the panic attacks in large crowds, paralyzing fear, worry about constant judgment. There's a small handful of people I'm comfortable with, but the paranoia and anxiety can still manage to work their way in sometimes. And it's why I lurk on here most of the time.

I know this is straying off topic, so I'll cut it here, just nice to be able to relate sometimes, even if it's about a shitty thing. And since most people I know would probably be somewhere between thinking I'm batshit insane or give me that weird, judging smile and say "oh that's silly" and think that I'll magically get over it after that brilliant revelation.

It's a submissive gesture. I rarely look people in the eye when talking with them, unless I think about it. Then it feels weird; it doesn't come naturally. I have a feeling it's related to my social development in middle school, when half the peers who talked with me wanted to rough me up.

[trippinprincezz13]

Okay, I have something to add now, after thinking on it.  I'm not sure where I'll be going with this, so feel free to extrapolate.

So last week sometime, Roger's dad took Roger, TGG, Enabler and I out to dinner.  Practically the whole time, starting from the minute Roger's dad walked in the door, to about the time we were finished eating but before the check arrived, I was PARALYZED with terror and anxiety, and I'm not entirely sure over what.  I do know I couldn't meet our waitress' or bussers eyes during that time, and after only managed a few glances.  I made an attempt at contributing to the conversation once, but mostly kept my eyes on my plate.  I didn't want people to get angry(?) with me, so I just tried to stay invisible.  And that was silly and ridiculous.

The end.

At least I'm not the only one, except it seems to be a near constant problem. Whether talking to someone or even smiling at a stranger passing by I HAVE to look away from their face, at least their eyes, as it makes me physically uncomfortable. Unless I'm PISSED, but that's only because I'm trying to burn a hole through your soul at that point. A few other exceptions, maybe. But I get the panic attacks in large crowds, paralyzing fear, worry about constant judgment. There's a small handful of people I'm comfortable with, but the paranoia and anxiety can still manage to work their way in sometimes. And it's why I lurk on here most of the time.

I know this is straying off topic, so I'll cut it here, just nice to be able to relate sometimes, even if it's about a shitty thing. And since most people I know would probably be somewhere between thinking I'm batshit insane or give me that weird, judging smile and say "oh that's silly" and think that I'll magically get over it after that brilliant revelation.

It's a submissive gesture. I rarely look people in the eye when talking with them, unless I think about it. Then it feels weird; it doesn't come naturally. I have a feeling it's related to my social development in middle school, when half the peers who talked with me wanted to rough me up.

Makes sense. I didn't have the most pleasant late-middle school though high school experience, followed by an abusive relationship that managed to tear down what little was left of my self-worth and I'm left with a mess of anxiety and neurotic behaviors. You'd think 7 years later I'd be getting through it, but I was already a quiet person and old habits die hard I suppose. But I know I do have a tendency, subconsciously or not, to make myself as un-noticeable/non-threatening as possible.

Trying to steer slightly back on topic, I know in the past I've gotten comments/heard that people thought I was stuck-up, unfriendly or some variable thereof because of my shyness, when it's really a matter of being relatively terrified of people. I'll be the nicest person you know once I warm up to you, but it often takes someone approaching me and/or at least being patient to get past that, so it turns into a pretty vicious circle. I'm afraid of judgment or that people will think I'm weird/rude/whatever for being quiet, so keep my mouth shut, and the cycle continues.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men.

I can totally relate to this, but from a different angle. I was kind of a habitual asshole in relationships for most of my youth and on in to my early adulthood. Took encountering a serious asshole woman to teach me to forgive myself and move past that nonsense.

Few things to toss out on the OP. I think that some dude's may not be generally shy but just legitimately shy around women they're interested in. There was all that sidetrack ITT about the chemicals and such. Certainly strong attraction, strong interest, has it's own chemical signature as well. There's definitely got to be a distinction between gynophobia and just not being able to handle your drugs. I think it would be tough to call it gynophobia unless it at least in some way also impacted dudes in their interactions with women they weren't interested in. I mean if it's a phobia it's gotta run a little deeper than a debilitating case of the butterflies.

That aside, I realized reading through this thread that I have exactly two hetero male friends. They're both epic social retards when it comes to their interactions with women. One, I introduced to a friend of mine a couple years back, now they're married and living in a relationship that resembles a low budget 70's disaster film. They do manage to keep their shit together individually, though, which is a big part of why I haven't felt the need to tell them to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen while I read them the riot act in at least a year. He's a bit off-topic since he's never been shy with women, just drunk, addicted, neurotic, paranoid and addicted to torturing himself with women just like him. Dude two, though, is a bit closer to what you're describing. Not shy, exactly, but more given to presenting himself in an effort to impress women rather than simply approaching and getting to know them. He is exclusively interested in "hot" women. That's always been the case. I don't think it's a status thing, though. He's just truly never showed any interest in any women outside of a certain physical standard. When they don't respond in the way he likes, he is viciously misogynistic. We're close enough friends that I can pop him in the mouth when necessary, though, and he usually thanks me for it later. Think on his part it's an ass-burgers ass-hole tic, more than a deep seated resentment, or anything.

One scenario you didn't mention that I've noticed in a lot of people (I want to throttle) is best demonstrated with a couple of headlines I just pulled from the M4W section on Craig's List:

"Do nice guys always finish last?"
"Is chivalry really dead?"

I fucking loathe this whiny, pathetic, condescending, insecure, over-compensated bullshit. Nevermind that you picked a single trait to define your whole personality rendering you about as interesting as strained rutabaga. Nevermind that your knight in shining armor routine consists of strapping on a papier mache codpiece to hide the fact that you're truly a desparate damsel in distress. And never you fucking mind that flashing this rare and noble virtue of yours comes off every bit as creepy as the guy at the playground flashing that rare and gnarly thing he's got under his trenchcoat. The real nasty irony here is that you don't even see how that tired refrain about nice guys like you always getting overlooked for cocky assholes who just treat women like shit, is utterly patronizing, bitter and misogynistic. If only women weren't so stuck up and superficial and weak and stupid they'd see the substance a guy like you has to offer--you'd treat them like a queen.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men.

I can totally relate to this, but from a different angle. I was kind of a habitual asshole in relationships for most of my youth and on in to my early adulthood. Took encountering a serious asshole woman to teach me to forgive myself and move past that nonsense.

Few things to toss out on the OP. I think that some dude's may not be generally shy but just legitimately shy around women they're interested in. There was all that sidetrack ITT about the chemicals and such. Certainly strong attraction, strong interest, has it's own chemical signature as well. There's definitely got to be a distinction between gynophobia and just not being able to handle your drugs. I think it would be tough to call it gynophobia unless it at least in some way also impacted dudes in their interactions with women they weren't interested in. I mean if it's a phobia it's gotta run a little deeper than a debilitating case of the butterflies.

That aside, I realized reading through this thread that I have exactly two hetero male friends. They're both epic social retards when it comes to their interactions with women. One, I introduced to a friend of mine a couple years back, now they're married and living in a relationship that resembles a low budget 70's disaster film. They do manage to keep their shit together individually, though, which is a big part of why I haven't felt the need to tell them to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen while I read them the riot act in at least a year. He's a bit off-topic since he's never been shy with women, just drunk, addicted, neurotic, paranoid and addicted to torturing himself with women just like him. Dude two, though, is a bit closer to what you're describing. Not shy, exactly, but more given to presenting himself in an effort to impress women rather than simply approaching and getting to know them. He is exclusively interested in "hot" women. That's always been the case. I don't think it's a status thing, though. He's just truly never showed any interest in any women outside of a certain physical standard. When they don't respond in the way he likes, he is viciously misogynistic. We're close enough friends that I can pop him in the mouth when necessary, though, and he usually thanks me for it later. Think on his part it's an ass-burgers ass-hole tic, more than a deep seated resentment, or anything.

One scenario you didn't mention that I've noticed in a lot of people (I want to throttle) is best demonstrated with a couple of headlines I just pulled from the M4W section on Craig's List:

"Do nice guys always finish last?"
"Is chivalry really dead?"

I fucking loathe this whiny, pathetic, condescending, insecure, over-compensated bullshit. Nevermind that you picked a single trait to define your whole personality rendering you about as interesting as strained rutabaga. Nevermind that your knight in shining armor routine consists of strapping on a papier mache codpiece to hide the fact that you're truly a desparate damsel in distress. And never you fucking mind that flashing this rare and noble virtue of yours comes off every bit as creepy as the guy at the playground flashing that rare and gnarly thing he's got under his trenchcoat. The real nasty irony here is that you don't even see how that tired refrain about nice guys like you always getting overlooked for cocky assholes who just treat women like shit, is utterly patronizing, bitter and misogynistic. If only women weren't so stuck up and superficial and weak and stupid they'd see the substance a guy like you has to offer--you'd treat them like a queen.

PREACH IT!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men.

I can totally relate to this, but from a different angle. I was kind of a habitual asshole in relationships for most of my youth and on in to my early adulthood. Took encountering a serious asshole woman to teach me to forgive myself and move past that nonsense.

Few things to toss out on the OP. I think that some dude's may not be generally shy but just legitimately shy around women they're interested in. There was all that sidetrack ITT about the chemicals and such. Certainly strong attraction, strong interest, has it's own chemical signature as well. There's definitely got to be a distinction between gynophobia and just not being able to handle your drugs. I think it would be tough to call it gynophobia unless it at least in some way also impacted dudes in their interactions with women they weren't interested in. I mean if it's a phobia it's gotta run a little deeper than a debilitating case of the butterflies.

That aside, I realized reading through this thread that I have exactly two hetero male friends. They're both epic social retards when it comes to their interactions with women. One, I introduced to a friend of mine a couple years back, now they're married and living in a relationship that resembles a low budget 70's disaster film. They do manage to keep their shit together individually, though, which is a big part of why I haven't felt the need to tell them to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen while I read them the riot act in at least a year. He's a bit off-topic since he's never been shy with women, just drunk, addicted, neurotic, paranoid and addicted to torturing himself with women just like him. Dude two, though, is a bit closer to what you're describing. Not shy, exactly, but more given to presenting himself in an effort to impress women rather than simply approaching and getting to know them. He is exclusively interested in "hot" women. That's always been the case. I don't think it's a status thing, though. He's just truly never showed any interest in any women outside of a certain physical standard. When they don't respond in the way he likes, he is viciously misogynistic. We're close enough friends that I can pop him in the mouth when necessary, though, and he usually thanks me for it later. Think on his part it's an ass-burgers ass-hole tic, more than a deep seated resentment, or anything.

One scenario you didn't mention that I've noticed in a lot of people (I want to throttle) is best demonstrated with a couple of headlines I just pulled from the M4W section on Craig's List:

"Do nice guys always finish last?"
"Is chivalry really dead?"

I fucking loathe this whiny, pathetic, condescending, insecure, over-compensated bullshit. Nevermind that you picked a single trait to define your whole personality rendering you about as interesting as strained rutabaga. Nevermind that your knight in shining armor routine consists of strapping on a papier mache codpiece to hide the fact that you're truly a desparate damsel in distress. And never you fucking mind that flashing this rare and noble virtue of yours comes off every bit as creepy as the guy at the playground flashing that rare and gnarly thing he's got under his trenchcoat. The real nasty irony here is that you don't even see how that tired refrain about nice guys like you always getting overlooked for cocky assholes who just treat women like shit, is utterly patronizing, bitter and misogynistic. If only women weren't so stuck up and superficial and weak and stupid they'd see the substance a guy like you has to offer--you'd treat them like a queen.

PREACH IT!

This sounds familiar.   

[East Coast Hustle]

Well, in a way. It made me realise that women are horrible fucking human beings, just like men.

I can totally relate to this, but from a different angle. I was kind of a habitual asshole in relationships for most of my youth and on in to my early adulthood. Took encountering a serious asshole woman to teach me to forgive myself and move past that nonsense.

Few things to toss out on the OP. I think that some dude's may not be generally shy but just legitimately shy around women they're interested in. There was all that sidetrack ITT about the chemicals and such. Certainly strong attraction, strong interest, has it's own chemical signature as well. There's definitely got to be a distinction between gynophobia and just not being able to handle your drugs. I think it would be tough to call it gynophobia unless it at least in some way also impacted dudes in their interactions with women they weren't interested in. I mean if it's a phobia it's gotta run a little deeper than a debilitating case of the butterflies.

That aside, I realized reading through this thread that I have exactly two hetero male friends. They're both epic social retards when it comes to their interactions with women. One, I introduced to a friend of mine a couple years back, now they're married and living in a relationship that resembles a low budget 70's disaster film. They do manage to keep their shit together individually, though, which is a big part of why I haven't felt the need to tell them to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen while I read them the riot act in at least a year. He's a bit off-topic since he's never been shy with women, just drunk, addicted, neurotic, paranoid and addicted to torturing himself with women just like him. Dude two, though, is a bit closer to what you're describing. Not shy, exactly, but more given to presenting himself in an effort to impress women rather than simply approaching and getting to know them. He is exclusively interested in "hot" women. That's always been the case. I don't think it's a status thing, though. He's just truly never showed any interest in any women outside of a certain physical standard. When they don't respond in the way he likes, he is viciously misogynistic. We're close enough friends that I can pop him in the mouth when necessary, though, and he usually thanks me for it later. Think on his part it's an ass-burgers ass-hole tic, more than a deep seated resentment, or anything.

One scenario you didn't mention that I've noticed in a lot of people (I want to throttle) is best demonstrated with a couple of headlines I just pulled from the M4W section on Craig's List:

"Do nice guys always finish last?"
"Is chivalry really dead?"

I fucking loathe this whiny, pathetic, condescending, insecure, over-compensated bullshit. Nevermind that you picked a single trait to define your whole personality rendering you about as interesting as strained rutabaga. Nevermind that your knight in shining armor routine consists of strapping on a papier mache codpiece to hide the fact that you're truly a desparate damsel in distress. And never you fucking mind that flashing this rare and noble virtue of yours comes off every bit as creepy as the guy at the playground flashing that rare and gnarly thing he's got under his trenchcoat. The real nasty irony here is that you don't even see how that tired refrain about nice guys like you always getting overlooked for cocky assholes who just treat women like shit, is utterly patronizing, bitter and misogynistic. If only women weren't so stuck up and superficial and weak and stupid they'd see the substance a guy like you has to offer--you'd treat them like a queen.

Fuck yes. There's nothing creepier than some tard who insists on calling girls "m'lady" or rushing to get in front of them so he can open the door for them. It's a special subtle kind of creepy and I enjoyed reading your (IMO) scathingly accurate take on it.

[navkat]

"Gynophobia" sounds like an std only bitches get.

*ducks the flaming wrath*