Anarchism and Welfare

[navkat]

Nav, I love ya....but you're so far off-base with this that I can't even come up with a cogent reply other than to just say "uhh, no."

Wrong about the case itself or wrong in theory? Because the way it was described gave me the impression that he implied he was doing these things or seeking them or whatever and that, to me is a very fucking dangerous thing to ignore. I tried to express that as clearly as possible without using ridiculous rhetoric or excessively emotional speech.

Two things:
1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

I think it's completely possible to fantasize about something which you know in the back of your mind would actually make you quite ill if ever confronted with it in real life. I think the mechanism is much the same as emo teenagers fantasizing their own beautiful, bloodless suicides where their skin is unblemished, everyone cries over their perfect lifeless body and no one shits their pance.

2. If indeed this guy had admitted to actually doing or conspiring to do this type of thing, my post and the reasons I gave still stand. Just because I was misinformed, doesn't mean I don't make a valid point. Y'all are not a squeamish bunch. I don't feel silly or stupid for saying what I said at all in light of the fact that the strong reactions of disgust on here led me to believe he'd done something truly malevolent.

If someone ever does get on here and brag about raping women, I would say the same things.

[navkat]

I want to say something while trying to avoid fueling the drama

I do know that Babylon has some deviant sexual stuff going on.

I also know that hes given and taken within a lot of flame threads.

I know people hate anarchy threads.

What i do not know is if hes jacked threads and that has caused other members to anger and jack BH's own threads in retaliation.

If he indeed has jacked threads, i guess its fair punishment to ruin his threads; if he has not jacked threads, i find it unfair to ruin the ones he creates.

I dont mind arguing with people with deviant or opposing ideas or ideology, because i can learn a lot from how they position themselves on a certain issue, i only shun or just stop participating in threads where the OP is being obnoxious or trolling (if you hadnt noticed, i never participate in troll/drama threads).

Sounds reasonable.

[Freeky]

I don't remember if his intentional insulting led to thread jackery, but he has grievously insulted Coyote and I on separate occasions, which led to pages and pages of people jumping on other people and completely disrupting whatever thread it was in.

I would just be ignoring him normally, but I was feeling informative (my initial posts are neutral) and then BH was being an outright liar again.  Well, back to ignoring him.

[navkat]

I've got kind of a wild, wild west attitude about these things: You have the right to post what ever offensive shit you want and in turn, people have the right to react authentically.

[Don Coyote]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

[Freeky]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Yeah, that attack was completely out of line, especially because everyone knew by then Coyote was mostly an administrater type.

And then he called me a pedophile defender, which I patently am not and everybody knows it, but he wasn't even being facetious about it, and since this was on TSC there were strangers who believed him.

And then, just recently, he said that Khara molests her children.  Her own damn children.

[navkat]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Yeah, that attack was completely out of line, especially because everyone knew by then Coyote was mostly an administrater type.

And then he called me a pedophile defender, which I patently am not and everybody knows it, but he wasn't even being facetious about it, and since this was on TSC there were strangers who believed him.

And then, just recently, he said that Khara molests her children.  Her own damn children.

THAT I saw. It was just dumb. Everyone knows that's not true. Kind of trollish.

[navkat]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Two points:
1. Of COURSE you didn't join to kill anyone, neither have you said or done anything to indicate that you would enjoy taking lives. Troll account is trollish.

2. That said, the military is inherently violent and you are an adult, of legal age and entered willingly into a contract whose terms imply that you will likely, at some point, be required to take a life to not be in breach of that contract. I did it, you did it, I understand. There a level of disconnect from the following truth: "the purpose of the military is to kill people in a situation wherein my elected officials have determined they will not listen to reason." It's easy to forget when you're in your early 20s and indulging fantasies in your head of decoding intel and jumping out of airplanes but it is nonetheless true and your own fault/responsibility if, after jumping out of airplanes, your orders include putting a slug into the head of a 12 year old child, pointing a gun at you.

[Don Coyote]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Two points:
1. Of COURSE you didn't join to kill anyone, neither have you said or done anything to indicate that you would enjoy taking lives. Troll account is trollish.

2. That said, the military is inherently violent and you are an adult, of legal age and entered willingly into a contract whose terms imply that you will likely, at some point, be required to take a life to not be in breach of that contract. I did it, you did it, I understand. There a level of disconnect from the following truth: "the purpose of the military is to kill people in a situation wherein my elected officials have determined they will not listen to reason." It's easy to forget when you're in your early 20s and indulging fantasies in your head of decoding intel and jumping out of airplanes but it is nonetheless true and your own fault/responsibility if, after jumping out of airplanes, your orders include putting a slug into the head of a 12 year old child, pointing a gun at you.

Well you see, I've been aware of that the entire time I've been. Are you trying to say that I shouldn't take umbrage to a fucked up pervert lumping me in with him, or accusing me of projecting my self disgust at my supposed sexual deviancy on to him?
That sick fuck deserves every ounce of scorn and mockery he gets, and deserves to be fucking marginalized every time he thinks he gets to side step all that sickness and make a contribution of any type here.

[Freeky]

What Coyote said. 

Especially the bit about lumping everyone on earth, every single human being, in with him and his nasty gross badwrong.

[Don Coyote]

And this shitting all over any attempt he makes to slime his way back in as a contributing member is the next best thing to banning him. Sure we might be doing exactly what he wants, and sure he might even get off on the abuse heaped on him, but fuck it, he doesn't deserve rational conversation. I will shit all over any thread he starts that looks like someone might be holding a conversation with him. I ignore his posts in most any other case, because I don't want to jack up someone else's thread.

[Freeky]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Yeah, that attack was completely out of line, especially because everyone knew by then Coyote was mostly an administrater type.

And then he called me a pedophile defender, which I patently am not and everybody knows it, but he wasn't even being facetious about it, and since this was on TSC there were strangers who believed him.

And then, just recently, he said that Khara molests her children.  Her own damn children.

THAT I saw. It was just dumb. Everyone knows that's not true. Kind of trollish.

He didn't seem like he was trolling to me, just trying to make an over the top joke which he for some reason didn't think would be completely and utterly out of line, considering who he is, what she went through, etc.

Also, I don't know about Coyote, but the thing that made me feel utter contempt for him was when he said I was a defender of pedophiles, not his sexual deviancy.

I kind of wish you would stop ignoring my posts, woman.  I said three times that he hadn't done anything wrong, and you ignored it, and I mentioned that my problem with him is not his gross badwrong, and it seems like you ignored that, too, in favor of defending him.

[BabylonHoruv]

I want to say something while trying to avoid fueling the drama

I do know that Babylon has some deviant sexual stuff going on.

I also know that hes given and taken within a lot of flame threads.

I know people hate anarchy threads.

What i do not know is if hes jacked threads and that has caused other members to anger and jack BH's own threads in retaliation.

If he indeed has jacked threads, i guess its fair punishment to ruin his threads; if he has not jacked threads, i find it unfair to ruin the ones he creates.

I dont mind arguing with people with deviant or opposing ideas or ideology, because i can learn a lot from how they position themselves on a certain issue, i only shun or just stop participating in threads where the OP is being obnoxious or trolling (if you hadnt noticed, i never participate in troll/drama threads).

Depends on how you define jacking threads.  I try not to do so, sometimes my presence in threads causes them to get derailed into discussions of my depravity.  After someone else starts it I generally don't stop it.

I don't feel that I am being treated unfairly, if that makes any difference.

I made this thread to make a point about something Dok said, that he chooses to derail it in response is not unfair. 

That Nigel and Freeky choose to join in is not unfair either.

Navkat was clearly misinformed about me, but her impression has been corrected, by several people.

[BabylonHoruv]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Yeah, that attack was completely out of line, especially because everyone knew by then Coyote was mostly an administrater type.

And then he called me a pedophile defender, which I patently am not and everybody knows it, but he wasn't even being facetious about it, and since this was on TSC there were strangers who believed him.

And then, just recently, he said that Khara molests her children.  Her own damn children.

No, I wasn't being facetious,  you were defending the character of a pedophile.

Cain has the archives I believe, nobody else does, so I can't link to the discussion in question, but you absolutely were defending a pedophile, you said he did not strike you as a bad person.

I did not mean to seriously imply that Khara molests her children.  It was stated that she felt people who are accused of molesting children should be lynched.  I accused her, in a way that I assumed nobody could take as a serious accusation, to point out what I saw as moral hypocrisy on her part.  Her response was closer to suggesting that I should be lynched for the accusation than that she should be for being accused.  (Note, she did not literally suggest my lynching, she did say she hoped I died miserable and alone, and that if she found me god would not be able to save me, showing that Khara is also someone who fantasizes about doing things that she knows would be wrong)

Also, I do not know what Khara went through.  I don't know her well, and wherever her history (presumably with child abuse) was posted I have not read it.  I'd prefer not to, stories of child abuse really disturb me and are painful for me to read and I avoid them unless reading them is going to give me some knowledge that will be useful.  As Khara has asked me never to speak to her again and I intend to honor that request I can't see knowledge of what she's been through being of any use to me at all.

If you can find a counter example, of a human being who honestly does not fantasize about things that they know are wrong, then I'll accept your assertion, but I sincerely doubt that you can. 

My attack on Coyote was absolutely a personal attack in a moment of anger, informed by my upbringing.  I was taught, as a child, that soldiers were killers, who either chose to be killers or who were deluded into thinking they were doing something noble, or were victims who had been drafted.  I know that Coyote doesn't get off on killing people, I was just pissed and lashing out.

He does fantasize about killing people, at least I'm fairly certain he does based on his posts (shovel tarp, being the most easily conjured up example, sorry, no link, Coyote is even more prolific than Freeky)

[Salty]

You admitted to fucking with her on purpose already, dimbass. I don't need a database.
Why the fuck are you people arguing with this piece of shit?

He likes it.