Discordian Feminists

[The Johnny]

Both points taken.

Vex: i see. well i never was really into all the dogma, that's one of the several reasons i dropped out of it. The christian argument was mostly in relation to my other point that discordia didnt really affect my views on the issue.

Pixie: Yeah that clarifies, and i think it adds to the discussion, for example, now id like to know how ECHs attitude towards women has changed.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I suppose I should clarify my earlier response: Discordianism hasn't had any influence on my attitude towards feminism. It may have had some influence on my attitude towards women.

yea, but ECH, y'all don't call me a screeching feminazi or tell me to make you a sammich, unlike some places on the internet. Besides, I'd rather ask you to mek me a sammich, seeing as you probably make quite a good one. 

Discordianism reminds me that while I might add a word (in this case "feminist") to the pile of them I use to explain part of myself, I oughtn't get too attached to it. It's a convenient word I use to define and denote my agreement with a specific concept, and that's all it should ever be. Otherwise it turns into a uniform.
It also helps remind me that different grids will produce different and equally valid interpretations of feminism. Womanism, for example, is a feminism more relatable for women of color (according to what little reading on it I have done) than "traditional" feminism, which is rather white. That's just as valid as 'traditional' - white, middle or upper class - feminism is.


Related to the bad rap the word 'feminism' has acquired, I don't see that as a reason to dump it. Fuck that. The word, at it's most basic, means believing in women. And I will not give that up because a bunch of misogynists have made "believing in women" a bad thing.

Yea, i kind of get a bit sick of the middle class white lady angle sometimes.  Being working class and being raised in state housing means I can bring a different perspective to the groups I attend.

[The Johnny]

All of this brings up a point.

Do people get influenced by discordianism and/or feminism?

Or is it merely an ideology/worldview one identifies itself with after they already have critical thinking skill and related things?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

If anything Discordianism has made me more suspicious of arguments from both ends of feminism; the "we don't want no women runnin' the planet" bullshit, AND the "I have a vagina and people like me have been oppressed for centuries, therefore I am more equal" bullshit. I tend to have very little patience for people who argue for special treatment to compensate for poor treatment, and then call it "equality." I haven't seen much of that here, and the moderated, no-bullshit attitude of women who post on PD helps me avoid the pitfalls of making stupid pro- and anti- feminist assumptions.

[The Johnny]

For example, a lot of people are influenced by traditional religions because it was shoved down their throats when they were young...

But how many people choose a religion that suits their ideology? I mean, i can think of paganism...

So maybe that's where one of the links between paganism and discordianism lies, having a personal ideology and then choosing a tag or affiliation based on it.

[The Dark Monk]

All of this brings up a point.

Do people get influenced by discordianism and/or feminism?

Or is it merely an ideology/worldview one identifies itself with after they already have critical thinking skill and related things?

I think it's both because people are influenced by people.
We're here at PD too because we have already decided we would like to do something about this world, and I believe that requires the critical thinking skill, on top of the open view to evolve and discuss current situations especially coming from someone who lives it and help be active. There is an identity to being a discordian and that to me seems to encompass freedom and happiness.
That's also speaking from a mans point of view as well, as men and women do think differently and experience life differently and have different challenges. It would be quite difficult to discuss experiencing Aunt Flo as a man, as an example I would never experience it and could never truly understand anything but the science behind it, so my information comes from womens' (who I trust of course) posts about it.

[Juana]

If anything Discordianism has made me more suspicious of arguments from both ends of feminism; the "we don't want no women runnin' the planet" bullshit, AND the "I have a vagina and people like me have been oppressed for centuries, therefore I am more equal" bullshit. I tend to have very little patience for people who argue for special treatment to compensate for poor treatment, and then call it "equality." I haven't seen much of that here, and the moderated, no-bullshit attitude of women who post on PD helps me avoid the pitfalls of making stupid pro- and anti- feminist assumptions.

I don't think I've ever met a feminist (radical feminist don't really count imo) who has ever said that. Also, how far are you taking this "special privilege" argument of yours?

[East Coast Hustle]

Both points taken.

Vex: i see. well i never was really into all the dogma, that's one of the several reasons i dropped out of it. The christian argument was mostly in relation to my other point that discordia didnt really affect my views on the issue.

Pixie: Yeah that clarifies, and i think it adds to the discussion, for example, now id like to know how ECHs attitude towards women has changed.

I don't think it's changed due to discordianism so much as that discordianism has caused me to actually THINK about why I think things, and in cases such as that allowed me to put it into words rather than just having be a vague "well I just think that's right" sort of thing. And in my experience, when I have concrete thoughts about things like that it becomes much harder for me to stray from my principles and forces me to actively try to be the person I want myself to be (in this context, a person who doesn't treat women any differently than men unless they specifically ask me to treat them differently, usually in a romantic context).

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

For example, a lot of people are influenced by traditional religions because it was shoved down their throats when they were young...

But how many people choose a religion that suits their ideology? I mean, i can think of paganism...

So maybe that's where one of the links between paganism and discordianism lies, having a personal ideology and then choosing a tag or affiliation based on it.

i came to discordia via paganism. The goddess-centred stuff I now feel was an attempt to break away from a patriarchal society/religions. Paganism taught me that my body isn't dirty or that sex is bad, m'kay. My take on it NOW is that was a formative attempt at feminism in a spiritual sense.

Then I got the point of discordia, rejected the magickal woo-woo, after just being a Pagan Pinealist  for a while (although I had a massive intellectual girl-crush on Verthaine, which was probably helpful!) and then I came here and got some critical thinking skills. After that, well I got feminista again but without the religion bit.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

If anything Discordianism has made me more suspicious of arguments from both ends of feminism; the "we don't want no women runnin' the planet" bullshit, AND the "I have a vagina and people like me have been oppressed for centuries, therefore I am more equal" bullshit. I tend to have very little patience for people who argue for special treatment to compensate for poor treatment, and then call it "equality." I haven't seen much of that here, and the moderated, no-bullshit attitude of women who post on PD helps me avoid the pitfalls of making stupid pro- and anti- feminist assumptions.

I don't think I've ever met a feminist (radical feminist don't really count imo) who has ever said that. Also, how far are you taking this "special privilege" argument of yours?

I was referring to "radical feminism," which doesn't count, but the Discord-induced detachment from believing everything I hear or read plays a large part in why it "doesn't count," to me. As for the "special treatment" thing, the argument is usually along the lines of, "You owe me X just for being female." Where being a woman is somehow an achievement in itself that should be rewarded, even if the reward wouldn't be given a male person of equal qualification.

In some circumstances I consider "Affirmative Action" (forcing gender or race quotas on employment or academic acceptance) to be "special treatment," if it can be shown that there is a more highly qualified candidate for a job or a school, who didn't get a position simply because he or she would have tipped the scales too far in one demographic direction or another.

[Freeky]

W/ regard to "special treatment," I'd rather not get punched, because I am a chick and my bones are mucho brittle from babby having.

Also, getting punched sucks.

The end.

[The Johnny]

So maybe we can talk about discordiANS and not discordiaNISM itself that influences our views and ideas thru debate or discussion.

But i dont know, i can only speak for my own experience, and ive always treated women equally... the only thing that has changed over the years is my understanding of women's history and situation, and that mostly has to do with reading a lot of different things and also going to university.

Edit: in the end, its very different experiences, that was mostly a response to D. Monk

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

If anything Discordianism has made me more suspicious of arguments from both ends of feminism; the "we don't want no women runnin' the planet" bullshit, AND the "I have a vagina and people like me have been oppressed for centuries, therefore I am more equal" bullshit. I tend to have very little patience for people who argue for special treatment to compensate for poor treatment, and then call it "equality." I haven't seen much of that here, and the moderated, no-bullshit attitude of women who post on PD helps me avoid the pitfalls of making stupid pro- and anti- feminist assumptions.

I don't think I've ever met a feminist (radical feminist don't really count imo) who has ever said that. Also, how far are you taking this "special privilege" argument of yours?

I was referring to "radical feminism," which doesn't count, but the Discord-induced detachment from believing everything I hear or read plays a large part in why it "doesn't count," to me. As for the "special treatment" thing, the argument is usually along the lines of, "You owe me X just for being female." Where being a woman is somehow an achievement in itself that should be rewarded, even if the reward wouldn't be given a male person of equal qualification.

In some circumstances I consider "Affirmative Action" (forcing gender or race quotas on employment or academic acceptance) to be "special treatment," if it can be shown that there is a more highly qualified candidate for a job or a school, who didn't get a position simply because he or she would have tipped the scales too far in one demographic direction or another.

Thing about affirmative action, is that it creates role models and a sense of belonging for places that would otherwise be dominated by the more privileged group. The book I'm reading atm is going into why women fail to go into maths, Tech, Science and Engineering is that if they see a male dominated environment advertised visually, it puts them off on a subconscious level.  A bunch of white dudes, however consciously progressive, are more likely to choose someone whose face fits, meaning another white guy.  What people are told they can or can't do based on stereotypes, or not seeing people who are like them doing those things has an effect on the subconscious. It's called Stereotype Threat, in social psychology terms, the most simple example is telling women they tend not to score very highly in maths. The extra stress of being told this as a "fact" is basically why they don't perform as well.

[The Johnny]

I was referring to "radical feminism," which doesn't count, but the Discord-induced detachment from believing everything I hear or read plays a large part in why it "doesn't count," to me. As for the "special treatment" thing, the argument is usually along the lines of, "You owe me X just for being female." Where being a woman is somehow an achievement in itself that should be rewarded, even if the reward wouldn't be given a male person of equal qualification.

But isnt this a strawman? Or how did that conversation go, as in "it took place with certain person"?

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

W/ regard to "special treatment," I'd rather not get punched, because I am a chick and my bones are mucho brittle from babby having.

Also, getting punched sucks.

The end.

Well using physical violence on someone smaller and physically weaker than you is a douchebag move, irrespective of sex.

I was referring to "radical feminism," which doesn't count, but the Discord-induced detachment from believing everything I hear or read plays a large part in why it "doesn't count," to me. As for the "special treatment" thing, the argument is usually along the lines of, "You owe me X just for being female." Where being a woman is somehow an achievement in itself that should be rewarded, even if the reward wouldn't be given a male person of equal qualification.

But isnt this a strawman? Or how did that conversation go, as in "it took place with certain person"?

Yea I was thinking it was somewhat a strawman. There are more stripes of feminism than there are in the god-damned pride flag ffs.