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[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Interesting...  In my own brain "beta" means "second..." 

Basically, a "beta" is somebody who, while not a leader themselves, makes an excellent support system for the person who IS the leader.

In my corner of the world, a "beta" is just as strong as an "alpha," just more tempermentally suited to helping reach goals stated by someone else than choosing the path for a group, themselves.  (Hell, in SCA terms, give me a line full of "betas" any day, with one or two "alphas" to make the battle plan, die gloriously in the first few minutes of combat, and leave the winning to the REST of us.)

And that's probably the true definition (uber-slow crappy connection today and SWEATING BALLS, can't *quite* get myself together to google) but I suspect PUA usage is somewhat more VOMDERP.

My defininiton, however, makes no sense in this context.

Unless, of course, Sleeper is hinting that he's another account of Trollbear's.

That occurred to me too.

He hasn't bumped forty threads yet, though. We'll see.

[Placid Dingo]

PUA's are essentially wannabe rapists anyway and this "beta" shit falls in the same box.

"I'M GONNA DOMINATE THE SHIT OUT OF THAT BETA GUY SHE LIKES AND FUCK SHIT OUTTA HER." Nevermind what SHE wants.

Wow.

That one hell of a long bow you're drawing there.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

PUA's are essentially wannabe rapists anyway and this "beta" shit falls in the same box.

"I'M GONNA DOMINATE THE SHIT OUT OF THAT BETA GUY SHE LIKES AND FUCK SHIT OUTTA HER." Nevermind what SHE wants.

Wow.

That one hell of a long bow you're drawing there.

That's the intent. :shrugs:

It never works the way they WANT it to, y'understand, and I've seen some BODACIOUS bar brawls, but that's the intent. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interesting...  In my own brain "beta" means "second..." 

Basically, a "beta" is somebody who, while not a leader themselves, makes an excellent support system for the person who IS the leader.

In my corner of the world, a "beta" is just as strong as an "alpha," just more tempermentally suited to helping reach goals stated by someone else than choosing the path for a group, themselves.  (Hell, in SCA terms, give me a line full of "betas" any day, with one or two "alphas" to make the battle plan, die gloriously in the first few minutes of combat, and leave the winning to the REST of us.)

And that's probably the true definition (uber-slow crappy connection today and SWEATING BALLS, can't *quite* get myself together to google) but I suspect PUA usage is somewhat more VOMDERP.

Here's the thing. In animal behavior, "alpha" and "beta" HAVE MEANINGS. When you take a word that has a meaning and re-apply it however your imagination tells you to, you lose consensus, and the word loses meaning.

It's like saying "In my own head, 'vagina' means 'armpit'". Sure, it might mean that to you, but when you start talking about your sweaty vaginas, how many people are going to share your definition?

Human beings don't have pack hierarchies in the way that pack animals do. We are social animals, not pack animals. We have complex situational social hierarchies, not pack hierarchies. The words "alpha" and "beta" are literally meaningless when applied to human hierarchies, unless you are using them as euphemisms for an actual human hierarchical structure such as "President" and "Vice President".

Furthermore, if we were pack animals and those descriptors were accurate, you couldn't have a line full of "betas" because the word describes a set position in a pack hierarchy, of which there can be only one.

One of the reasons I hate PUA/romantic self-help type books is that they flat-out make shit up about human behavior, usually cribbed from books on dog training and birdwatching, and not only is it inapplicable bullshit, but it sounds plausible and familiar so people believe it.

[the last yatto]

If an alpha is someone who is socially fully functioning, and capable of sound interaction, a beta would naturally be the next step down.
The term originates from the animal kingdom, alpha being leader.
Beta was a phrase colloquially used to describe someone that struggles in a social environment.

Silly me for think it was a brave new world reference

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Interesting...  In my own brain "beta" means "second..." 

Basically, a "beta" is somebody who, while not a leader themselves, makes an excellent support system for the person who IS the leader.

In my corner of the world, a "beta" is just as strong as an "alpha," just more tempermentally suited to helping reach goals stated by someone else than choosing the path for a group, themselves.  (Hell, in SCA terms, give me a line full of "betas" any day, with one or two "alphas" to make the battle plan, die gloriously in the first few minutes of combat, and leave the winning to the REST of us.)

And that's probably the true definition (uber-slow crappy connection today and SWEATING BALLS, can't *quite* get myself together to google) but I suspect PUA usage is somewhat more VOMDERP.

Here's the thing. In animal behavior, "alpha" and "beta" HAVE MEANINGS. When you take a word that has a meaning and re-apply it however your imagination tells you to, you lose consensus, and the word loses meaning.

It's like saying "In my own head, 'vagina' means 'armpit'". Sure, it might mean that to you, but when you start talking about your sweaty vaginas, how many people are going to share your definition?

Human beings don't have pack hierarchies in the way that pack animals do. We are social animals, not pack animals. We have complex situational social hierarchies, not pack hierarchies. The words "alpha" and "beta" are literally meaningless when applied to human hierarchies, unless you are using them as euphemisms for an actual human hierarchical structure such as "President" and "Vice President".

Furthermore, if we were pack animals and those descriptors were accurate, you couldn't have a line full of "betas" because the word describes a set position in a pack hierarchy, of which there can be only one.

One of the reasons I hate PUA/romantic self-help type books is that they flat-out make shit up about human behavior, usually cribbed from books on dog training and birdwatching, and not only is it inapplicable bullshit, but it sounds plausible and familiar so people believe it.

Dog training????? I guess you're right, now that I think about it.
I wish Cesar Milan would walk them around with a pinch collar.